Will you travel? [Mod Note in Post #1 - Travel Discussion Only! Megathread]

RobitTV

I think we just need to be consistent from both sides of this debate, and that includes us 100%.

We need both sides to be understanding of where each individual is coming from and what their current situation is. And then we can have a positive debate.

johnire

If that was directed towards me please show me a post where I have belittled anyone who have travelled and are travelling?
Thank you.

Credit Checker Moose wrote: »

Maybe you shouldn't belittle those that have travelled and are travelling?

Str8outtaWuhan

AuntySnow wrote: »

The only people I know who were in Turkey recently spent 2 weeks in hospital with Covid 19
One of them was medivac'ed home

But did they have to get a PCR test to get there, or quarantine on arrival or wear masks outside?

faceman

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

Technically, you are correct.

The law makes no distinction between people who are COVID positive, people who have been identified as close contacts, and the rest of the population.

If we are going to advocate to lock people who arrive in this country via ports and airports (responsible for a fraction of 1% of cases here) in hotel rooms, (which in certain circumstances I'm not against), then we need to get very serious about containing the rest of the population, including cross border travel.

GPs are reporting that their patients are coming to them having had symptoms for many days already (and not having been self isolating).
Positive cases have gone to work. Close contacts are not restricting movements.
THIS is where the majority of our cases are happening. In healthcare settings and in the community.
The narrative is trying to plug the tiny holes at the ports (not a bad thing in principal) while there are almighty gashes elsewhere that we are ignoring.

A zero COVID approach only works when all transmission is shut down.

Yes to all of this.

This is always the problem in Ireland. We government panders to the stuff that makes the news.

acequion

johnire wrote: »

I couldn't agree more with you....that being the case can you delete your earlier post where you said the following to me....

People like your good self and this chap/lassie fisgon, who swung by earlier, claim to be big travellers and ever so annoyed too about restrictions on travel, yet I get the strong impression that the opposite is the case.


I felt- to use your own words- insulted and belittled by your comments.

Things work both ways-

I don't think anybody should have to endure being insulted and belittled because they wish to or personally need to travel during the pandemic.- equally those who wish NOT to travel during the pandemic should not be insulted and belittled.

Ah here now johnire I think you're exaggerating a bit and fanning the flames of recent aggression on this thread which thankfully appear to have died down.

Firstly, I apologise if I offended you. I don't come on these threads to cause trouble and am not interested in posts of tit for tat bickering. I cannot abide bigots in any shape or form and though I should ignore I find it hard to. At the moment social media is crawling with bigots and zealots.

However, if you are so respectful, why did you thank every one of those completely out of order and insulting posts?

And if you love travelling as I note you claimed at some point, why do you always seem to jump in when the thread gets hijacked by, let's call them, the less respectful posters?

Once again let me reiterate that I fully respect your anti travel in a pandemic stance. But I don't respect you or anybody else ganging up on posters because they wish to travel. Like me, you've been contributing to this thread long enough to know that it isn't black and white. There are very many reasons as to why people wish to or need to travel.

fisgon

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

The narrative is trying to plug the tiny holes at the ports (not a bad thing in principal) while there are almighty gashes elsewhere that we are ignoring.

A zero COVID approach only works when all transmission is shut down.

That's true. But what you said about the narrative is not, in any way.

There is no end of talk about community transmission, about transmission in hospitals, in families, in illegal gatherings. Listen to any news show, read any newspaper. There is only a little talk about travel. It is not at all true to say that there is an exaggerated emphasis on stopping travelling.

Travel is one aspect. It is part of the whole, and yes, all need to be addressed. But travel is part of the problem.

fisgon

acequion wrote: »

Trolls are provocative, insulting and generally post to cause trouble.

You might consider changing your tone and posting style if you want to be taken seriously.

In any case I don't take you seriously and won't be replying any more.

"Change my posting style"?

You mean "stop disagreeing with you"?

fisgon

fm wrote: »

Like most things travel can be done safely with the correct precautions taken.

Maybe it can, maybe it can't. But the problem at the moment is that people who come into the country are being trusted to be responsible, self-isolate, not infect anyone. And most people will be responsible, but some won't. And they are the ones most likely to be carrying the virus in the first place.

Belmullet in Mayo had one of the highest rates in the world of infection recently. From an Irish Times article....

"At the same time, people had started to come back for Christmas, many from the UK, some bringing with them the more easily transmitted UK Covid variant and then not isolating fully when they arrived."

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/how-did-a-remote-mayo-town-become-ireland-s-most-covid-infected-place-1.4465431

ProfessorPlum

fisgon wrote: »

That's true. But what you said about the narrative is not, in any way.

There is no end of talk about community transmission, about transmission in hospitals, in families, in illegal gatherings. Listen to any news show, read any newspaper. There is only a little talk about travel. It is not at all true to say that there is an exaggerated emphasis on stopping travelling.

Travel is one aspect. It is part of the whole, and yes, all need to be addressed. But travel is part of the problem.

There has been a huge uptick in the MHQ narrative in the last week.
The coverage is completely disproportionate when travel accounts for a tiny %.

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1352973964780441606?s=20
https://twitter.com/RiochtConor2/status/1353009053933436928?s=20

Donald Trump

AuntySnow wrote: »

The only people I know who were in Turkey recently spent 2 weeks in hospital with Covid 19
One of them was medivac'ed home

Were they on actual essential travel and did they have to pay for the medivac home themselves?

Sam Hain

Coybig_ wrote: »

I've booked Vegas for November and its the only thing keeping me sane. Even if I have to go through Turkey or Mexico to get there, I'll be going. Although at that point maybe direct travel will be opened for the vaccinated. Who knows anymore.

Having it in my mind that I'm going to matter what it takes has done wonders for my mental health, to have something to look forward to - as opposed to a daily barrage of misery which never once stopped in this country, even when we had 0-5 cases per day.

Just wondering, have you ever been to Vegas in November before?

Donald Trump

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

There has been a huge uptick in the MHQ narrative in the last week.
The coverage is completely disproportionate when travel accounts for a tiny %.

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1352973964780441606?s=20
https://twitter.com/RiochtConor2/status/1353009053933436928?s=20

I'll have to pull you up on this. Because this is a dangerous misuse of "statistics".
You don't seem to realise the distinction between the importance of travel as a vector of the disease and the amount of people who are determined to have caught it while in actual transit.


Let me give you a real world example. I know a girl who was working abroad for a few years on one of those "young person abroad" working visas. Her visa expired at the end of the Summer but it was extended due to the pandemic. However she came home for good just before Christmas.


She had to get a test a few days before she flew. Passed that ok. She also got a test the day she arrived (I don't know whether that is mandatory or not). Her first test was negative but the second one came back as positive a few days later. And four more people in her family and extended family later tested positive which can be traced to her bringing it back.



Out of those 5 a total of 0% caught it while traveling. She didn't catch it while traveling. But she brought it back.



Another example is what we have read about the Belmullet cluster. People say that a load of people travelled back from London etc. and there a a party and that seeded a massive cluster there. Of the people who tested positive in Belmullet, there are probably zero who caught it while travelling.

Most reasonable people would realise that it is highly likely that if the people did not travel back home there for Christmas, that there would not have been the same huge cluster there. Even though there were likely zero instances of people recorded as being infected while travelling.

fm

Donald Trump wrote: »

I'll have to pull you up on this. Because this is a dangerous misuse of "statistics".
You don't seem to realise the distinction between the importance of travel as a vector of the disease and the amount of people who are determined to have caught it while in actual transit.


Let me give you a real world example. I know a girl who was working abroad for a few years on one of those "young person abroad" working visas. Her visa expired at the end of the Summer but it was extended due to the pandemic. However she came home for good just before Christmas.


She had to get a test a few days before she flew. Passed that ok. She also got a test the day she arrived (I don't know whether that is mandatory or not). Her first test was negative but the second one came back as positive a few days later. And four more people in her family and extended family later tested positive which can be traced to her bringing it back.





Out of those 5 a total of 0% caught it while traveling. She didn't catch it while traveling. But she brought it back.



Another example is what we have read about the Belmullet cluster. People say that a load of people travelled back from London etc. and there a a party and that seeded a massive cluster there. Of the people who tested positive in Belmullet, there are probably zero who caught it while travelling.

Most reasonable people would realise that it is highly likely that if the people did not travel back home there for Christmas, that there would not have been the same huge cluster there. Even though there were likely zero instances of people recorded as being infected while travelling.

But doesn't the party have to take alot of the blame also?

Donald Trump

fm wrote: »

But doesn't the party have to take alot of the blame also?

Yes. Of course. I didn't say otherwise. I'm only pointing out the dangerous misuse of statistics.


There is a reason why, experts who devote their lives to studying and controlling infectious diseases, point to travel as being an important component of spread. Others shouldn't be trying to dismiss that advice with pseudo-science.





Lets take the alternative logic to an extreme conclusion. Travel was confirmed as being responsible for 180 cases (according to the stats presented). Using faulty logic, one might conclude from that that if the borders of the island had hypothetically been hermetically sealed on 1st Feb 2020, that we would have only had 180 less cases. So you have to be careful how you interpret or use these things.

Donald Trump

Donald Trump wrote: »

The Guards have a special section that do checkpoints.

Tell me more about this special checkpoint unit

ProfessorPlum

Donald Trump wrote: »

I'll have to pull you up on this. Because this is a dangerous misuse of "statistics".
You don't seem to realise the distinction between the importance of travel as a vector of the disease and the amount of people who are determined to have caught it while in actual transit.


Let me give you a real world example. I know a girl who was working abroad for a few years on one of those "young person abroad" working visas. Her visa expired at the end of the Summer but it was extended due to the pandemic. However she came home for good just before Christmas.


She had to get a test a few days before she flew. Passed that ok. She also got a test the day she arrived (I don't know whether that is mandatory or not). Her first test was negative but the second one came back as positive a few days later. And four more people in her family and extended family later tested positive which can be traced to her bringing it back.



Out of those 5 a total of 0% caught it while traveling. She didn't catch it while traveling. But she brought it back.



Another example is what we have read about the Belmullet cluster. People say that a load of people travelled back from London etc. and there a a party and that seeded a massive cluster there. Of the people who tested positive in Belmullet, there are probably zero who caught it while travelling.

Most reasonable people would realise that it is highly likely that if the people did not travel back home there for Christmas, that there would not have been the same huge cluster there. Even though there were likely zero instances of people recorded as being infected while travelling.

That's not how it works though. Associated with travel includes those who test positive on/after arrival. Your friend will feature as one of the 'travel' cases and her family will be recorded as one of the 5 - thats right, total of 5 outbreaks (defined as 2 or more cases) associated with travel that occurred in the last 3 weeks of 2020 and the first 2 weeks of 2021 (up to 16/1/2021).

Those infected while travelling come under the 'transport' category.

The massive party in Belmulet had a lot more to do with the 6,000/100,000 incidence they experienced there than a very tiny number of inbound cases.

LuasSimon

What’s the latest thoughts on summer holidays .

Booking a holiday to Spain in June still a runner with a family ?

opinionated3

LuasSimon wrote: »

What’s the latest thoughts on summer holidays .

Booking a holiday to Spain in June still a runner with a family ?

Was hoping to head to Portugal in September but I've more or less given up on that now. I believe 2021 is a write off so gonna save some money and all going well will try for two holidays in 2022 to try make up for it. I've no intention of spending money on another wash out staycation.......

Golfman64

opinionated3 wrote: »

Was hoping to head to Portugal in September but I've more or less given up on that now. I believe 2021 is a write off so gonna save some money and all going well will try for two holidays in 2022 to try make up for it. I've no intention of spending money on another wash out staycation.......

What’s happening now may actually make travel in June more likely. The big EU tourist economies cannot afford a missed summer. A lot will depend on speed of vaccination. I’d wait till mid-April and the situation will be much clearer by then. Flights will be cheap for sure....

acequion

There's no doubt that there are some who are loving the uncertainty all this is causing for travellers. As the expression goes, they're fattening on it. This pandemic sure has exposed a nasty underbelly.

This has been a weekend of utter gloom with nothing but bad news all round and some are writing off foreign travel plans for the entire year. I think that's unwise. People did the same last year and those of us who took the plunge and went away really appreciated the experience. It could be the same this year. It's much too early for panic and defeatism.

I think it's very hard to plan so it will have to be a case of wait and see. If we can get over this third wave and things stabilise lots of people will take to the skies again. The majority won't be on social media talking about it. They'll just do it and more luck to them. I intend to be one of them.

dalyboy

acequion wrote: »

There's no doubt that there are some who are loving the uncertainty all this is causing for travellers. As the expression goes, they're fattening on it. This pandemic sure has exposed a nasty underbelly.

This has been a weekend of utter gloom with nothing but bad news all round and some are writing off foreign travel plans for the entire year. I think that's unwise. People did the same last year and those of us who took the plunge and went away really appreciated the experience. It could be the same this year. It's much too early for panic and defeatism.

I think it's very hard to plan so it will have to be a case of wait and see. If we can get over this third wave and things stabilise lots of people will take to the skies again. The majority won't be on social media talking about it. They'll just do it and more luck to them. I intend to be one of them.

There’s no way I’m not going abroad this summer.

I said it last summer that this holiday “shaming” will drag on and on for 2021 and it’s possible for 2022 too. Life’s too short and 2 years (possibly more) of no real holidays is unacceptable.

The situation last summer was laughable. Covid cases were on single digits or low double along with zero deaths for 16 days and the anti-holiday message was pushed daily. This was when most of Europe was getting on with things and some were even having small outdoor music events.

This summer it may be required to jump through hoops with PCR tests etc in and out to destinations but hey , I’ll go buy some new Nike runners and jump away. It’ll be worth every effort and cost.

dartboardio

dalyboy wrote: »

There’s no way I’m not going abroad this summer.

I said it last summer that this holiday “shaming” will drag on and on for 2021 and it’s possible for 2022 too. Life’s too short and 2 years (possibly more) of no real holidays is unacceptable.

The situation last summer was laughable. Covid cases were on single digits or low double along with zero deaths for 16 days and the anti-holiday message was pushed daily. This was when most of Europe was getting on with things and some were even having small outdoor music events.

This summer it may be required to jump through hoops with PCR tests etc in and out to destinations but hey , I’ll go buy some new Nike runners and jump away. It’ll be worth every effort and cost.

Absolutely. Cannot live life on hold forever while the Irish government yo-yo in and out of lockdown for months on end as someone said above.


Flights to Dubai for €179 each way at the moment for anyone looking.. I’m heading out next week hehe

CIARAN_BOYLE

LuasSimon wrote: »

What’s the latest thoughts on summer holidays .

Booking a holiday to Spain in June still a runner with a family ?

I wouldn't book.

We are certain to have some sort of restrictions during the summer. It may be low restrictions but there will be restrictions. Spain will also have restrictions in June. I don't know what they will be.

A last minute booking might be a better decision. Early June look at Spain, Italy Portugal and somewhere else and choose which has the least restrictions.

Kivaro

dartboardio wrote: »

Absolutely. Cannot live life on hold forever while the Irish government yo-yo in and out of lockdown for months on end as someone said above.


Flights to Dubai for €179 each way at the moment for anyone looking.. I’m heading out next week hehe

According to the news this morning, the Gardai has a "ring of steel" round Dublin Airport. It will interesting to find out what that actually means.

DraftDodger

LuasSimon wrote: »

What’s the latest thoughts on summer holidays .

Booking a holiday to Spain in June still a runner with a family ?

Forget it tbh. It's just not worth the hassle booking anything with all the restrictions and protocols also i think it will be September or October before the general public are vaccinated.

Don't know how morally anyone could travel at the moment anyway with all that's going on if it's not work or essential.

gmisk

dartboardio wrote: »

Absolutely. Cannot live life on hold forever while the Irish government yo-yo in and out of lockdown for months on end as someone said above.


Flights to Dubai for €179 each way at the moment for anyone looking.. I’m heading out next week hehe

Whats with the hehe?
Bare in mind you might have to pay for forced quarantine by the time you come back.
Maybe factor that into your pricing...

gmisk

DraftDodger wrote: »

Forget it tbh. It's just not worth the hassle booking anything with all the restrictions and protocols also i think it will be September or October before the general public are vaccinated.

Don't know how morally anyone could travel at the moment anyway with all that's going on if it's not work or essential.

I will be leaving it as late as possible this year to travel....
I have 2.5k voucher for honeymoon in a hotel in italy no refunds...
Definitely wouldn't be travelling til much later in year personally, and I wouldn't if I didn't have voucher tbh

acequion

I see the moral police and the begrudgers are out in force again this morning.

First few posts since yesterday were uplifting to read of people's plans and then cue a string of posts from the doom mongers.

I mean how absolutely dare people have hopes and dreams. How dare they soothe themselves at this terrible time with thoughts of something nice like a holiday in perhaps 6 months time! How absolutely sinful, may they burn in hell! And as for those in absolute hell because they've been months estranged from loved ones in other countries and are desperate to see them, well them roast away in hell. Who cares if they never again see their loved ones again! Who cares if they're at breaking point with depression and isolation!

Yes folks that' the mentality we're dealing with. I predict another wave of emigration out of this miserable police state when Covid is eventually defeated. Definitely no country for the young and optimistic. But in the meantime absolutely no point coming on here. I wish people safe and speedy travel to the wonderful wide world out there.

dartboardio

dartboardio wrote: »

Absolutely. Cannot live life on hold forever while the Irish government yo-yo in and out of lockdown for months on end as someone said above.


Flights to Dubai for €179 each way at the moment for anyone looking.. I’m heading out next week hehe

What about restrictions in Dubai?

dartboardio

bubblypop wrote: »

What about restrictions in Dubai?

ou must have a negative PCR test to enter, the test must be done within 96 hours. Getting mine done at the Boots test service

No live entertainment or DJ's but all bars, restaurants, nightclubs open(no dancing but you can stay in your own area) and tourist attractions are open.