Will you travel? [Mod Note in Post #1 - Travel Discussion Only! Megathread]

Sam Hain

acequion wrote: »

I have just reported this post.

Are you still here?

Donald Trump

acequion wrote: »

Travelling for non essential reasons is also legal. So there is no issue. People can still travel if they wish once they abide by all the other rules.

You are wrong. It is currently against restrictions. A person could be fined. You should not be spreading disinformation.



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faceman

Donald Trump wrote: »

I didn't quote your whole post just because it was too large. I wasn't trying to drag anything off topic. My example of schools was just to contrast a high profile example where people protest advice/restrictions for not being strict enough. Some think restrictions are too strict, some think they are not strict enough





For your other points, they are reasonable. People going effectively one-way to "work from home" somewhere else, I don't have as much of an issue with that.



The emphasis on travel on these forums is also because it is visible and affects people. And people use it as an excuse not to obey other advice. You see it here "why should I stay within 5km for exercise when 50k people are allowed to come through Belfast?". To combat the pandemic you need cohesion and everyone pulling together.



It's very divisive on here. People are dividing into themselves "travellers" and "miserable others". I am apparently in the latter category. I did travel on 4 separate trips last year in Jan and the first week of Feb. One to the UK and three to the continent. One was work related and three to meet three different friends. (Now that was unusual for me that all the trips came along close together. I wouldn't usually travel that much. In the last 6 months of 2019 I only went to the UK twice in comparison).
I made plans to meet up with one of those friends at three different cities over the Summer. Obviously that didn't happen.



But because I'm not on here moaning about it, I'm ironically in the miserable category

I guess I had you wrong. We are probably more in agreement than I thought.

Sigh, I hate how the pandemic is causing all these ructions between people.

acequion

Donald Trump wrote: »

You are wrong. It is currently against restrictions. A person could be fined. You should not be spreading disinformation.



https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=116028442&postcount=7420

What are you talking about now?

Travel outside the state is not against the law. There is a Govt advisory against non essential travel but it's an advisory not a law.


So would you please stop implying that there is anything illegal about leaving the country. It is not against the law and not against any law to encourage it. If so then the travel companies and airlines are also breaking the law with their jab and go ads.

The travel beyond 5m is a different issue. But are you actually trying to claim that the dude who lives 4.5km from the airport is grand but the one who lives 5.5km is a law breaker???

Donald Trump

acequion wrote: »

What are you talking about now?

Travel outside the state is not against the law. There is a Govt advisory against non essential travel but it's an advisory not a law.


So would you please stop implying that there is anything illegal about leaving the country. It is not against the law and not against any law to encourage it. If so then the travel companies and airlines are also breaking the law with their jab and go ads.

The travel beyond 5m is a different issue. But are you actually trying to claim that the dude who lives 4.5km from the airport is grand but the one who lives 5.5km is a law breaker???

I am sorry. But I can't believe that people still don't understand that the 5km is for exercise only.

You are not supposed to leave your home for any non-essential reasons.

Tenzor07

Donald Trump wrote: »

I am sorry. But I can't believe that people still don't understand that the 5km is for exercise only.You are not supposed to leave your home for any non-essential reasons.

Just to clear up the point you're trying to make, can you show us where the law is that says you cannot leave the country via. the ports?
Or the law which makes it illegal to travel to the ports to collect someone or leave the country yourself?

acequion

Donald Trump wrote: »

I am sorry. But I can't believe that people still don't understand that the 5km is for exercise only.

You are not supposed to leave your home for any non-essential reasons.

"Not supposed" doesn't mean people don't do it.

If you have no problem with the fact that the guy who lives within 5km of the airport can get merrily on his flight while the one from 6km gets a fine just because it's the law then good for you.

I have a problem with it as I do with many of the laws and measures around Covid.

Donald Trump

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Just to clear up the point you're trying to make, can you show us where the law is that says you cannot leave the country via. the ports?
Or the law which makes it illegal to travel to the ports to collect someone or leave the country yourself?

Sure:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2020/act/1/enacted/en/html


and
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2020/si/701/made/en/print


Be logical. People are being fined. There has to be legislation backing even a fine.

Donald Trump

acequion wrote: »

"Not supposed" doesn't mean people don't do it.

If you have no problem with the fact that the guy who lives within 5km of the airport can get merrily on his flight while the one from 6km gets a fine just because it's the law then good for you.

I have a problem with it as I do with many of the laws and measures around Covid.

Are you still having difficulty with the 5km thing?


You are not allowed to leave your house for non-essential reasons.
You can leave it for essential reasons.
You can leave your house for a walk or a run or other exercise - but you cannot go further than 5km

Tenzor07

Donald Trump wrote: »

Sure:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2020/act/1/enacted/en/html
and
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2020/si/701/made/en/print
Be logical. People are being fined. There has to be legislation backing even a fine.

So you have a greater understanding of the above statutes than most of us, maybe you could specifically show the section where leaving the country is illegal? And the amendment which says Gardai may detain you if you attempt to do so?

Also, the statute was in place since early 2020, do you know how many people were fined for trying to leave the State?

Donald Trump

Tenzor07 wrote: »

So you have a greater understanding of the above statutes than most of us, maybe you could specifically show the section where leaving the country is illegal? And the amendment which says Gardai may detain you if you attempt to do so?

Also, the statute was in place since early 2020, do you know how many people were fined for trying to leave the State?

If you are insisting on being a smart arse about it, I'll refer you to Part 2 of http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2020/si/701/made/en/print

4. (1) Subject to paragraph (2), an applicable person shall not leave his or her place of residence without reasonable excuse.

acequion

Donald Trump wrote: »

Are you still having difficulty with the 5km thing?


You are not allowed to leave your house for non-essential reasons.
You can leave it for essential reasons.
You can leave your house for a walk or a run or other exercise - but you cannot go further than 5km

You are being deliberately provocative. You have zero regard for any opinion that doesn't concur with yours and zero respect for a person's democratic right to question and criticise laws and rules.

I said before and say it again that I don't want to engage with you. Is it too much to expect that you might respect my wishes!

Tenzor07

Donald Trump wrote: »

If you are insisting on being a smart arse about it, I'll refer you to Part 2 of http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2020/si/701/made/en/print

No, i'm interested in people making claims without backing them up with actual laws/facts...and not merely their own interpretation..

You're basically saying the criteria for them being "allowed" to leave the country is whether they live within 5km of one of the ports? Where does it say that in the amendment to the legislation?

All last year we had 2k, 5k, 20k from home limits yet people travelled from all over Ireland to leave the country and not one was prevented from leaving the country as you claim...

Donald Trump

acequion wrote: »

You are being deliberately provocative. You have zero regard for any opinion that doesn't concur with yours and zero respect for a person's democratic right to question and criticise laws and rules.

I said before and say it again that I don't want to engage with you. Is it too much to expect that you might respect my wishes!

Yeah but you aren't questioning or criticising rules. You are making up things and falsely presenting them as true. I am not being provocative and only correcting you because this is a public forum and others might read them and take them as true.


Debate is one thing. Falsehoods or inaccuracies should not be afforded the same protection as debate.

fisgon

acequion wrote: »

You are being deliberately provocative. You have zero regard for any opinion that doesn't concur with yours and zero respect for a person's democratic right to question and criticise laws and rules.

I said before and say it again that I don't want to engage with you. Is it too much to expect that you might respect my wishes!

This is hilarious - "you have zero regard for any opinion that doesn't concur with yours" - I think you have just described yourself.

Also, if you have said it before that you are not going to engage with him, why are you still doing it?

Donald Trump

Tenzor07 wrote: »

No, i'm interested in people making claims without backing them up with actual laws/facts...and not merely their own interpretation..

You're basically saying the criteria for them being "allowed" to leave the country is whether they live within 5km of one of the ports?

All last year we had 2k, 5k, 20k from home limits yet people travelled from all over Ireland to leave the country and not one was prevented from leaving the country as you claim...

No, again the 5km limit is only for exercise. I never said anything about a limit for being able to get to the airport. I think the other poster might have misinterpreted something along those lines. I never said that.


You are not allowed to go 1.5km down the road for a few cans with your neighbour. Even though it is within the 5km limit



If you live 4km from the airport you can walk there if you insist that it is for your daily walk for exercise. Or you can even drive there, park in the carpark and walk around it if you have permission to exercise there. But you can't leave your house and go 4km to the airport to get on a plane for non essential travel


Yes you could lie and bypass the rules, but you can also lie and bypass rules when submitting your tax return or many other things. The fact that one might try to do that does not make them legal

HeidiHeidi

If people could just manage to start from the starting point of


There's a pandemic out there
Human contact spreads the virus
Travel inevitably involves human contact (as do a whole host of other things before I get accused of "blaming" travel)
The requirement at the moment is that you don't leave home unless for essential reasons, or exercise within a 5km radius of home



and work from there, things would be a lot easer and less fractious IMO.

Tenzor07

Donald Trump wrote: »

But you can't leave your house and go 4km to the airport to get on a plane.

All through 2020's various level 5's etc. there wasn't a single Garda checkpoint or Garda who stood at the gates at say Dublin airport who checked who lived close to the airport or why they were travelling...

Legally, there is no law stopping someone from either flying into Ireland or someone flying out of Ireland. Flights are going every day, travel never stopped in Ireland, and it was never banned.
If you decide to fly in or out of Ireland, you won’t be stopped at the airport or sent back home

I Googled the above and it was published in the Journal.ie Nov2020

Donald Trump

Tenzor07 wrote: »

All through 2020's various level 5's etc. there wasn't a single Garda checkpoint or Garda who stood at the gates at say Dublin airport who checked who lived close to the airport or why they were travelling...



I Googled the above and it was published in the Journal.ie Nov2020

The conundrum is whether you can figure out how to get on a plane without leaving your place of residence then you can get on a flight. Then you would be 100% legal. Because it is the leaving your place of residence without a reasonable excuse which is against the current law. Not where you go once you leave without that excuse or how you travel there.



Now, if you are a visitor to Ireland, you don't necessarily have the same restrictions as legally it is based on your place of residence.


Edit: again, just in case of confusion, the above is implicitly for non essential travel. Essential travel is allowed

Tenzor07

Donald Trump wrote: »

The conundrum is whether you can figure out how to get on a plane without leaving your place of residence then you can get on a flight. Then you would be 100% legal.
Now, if you are a visitor to Ireland, you don't necessarily have the same restrictions as legally it is based on your place of residence.

Also was a lot of people travelling from Northern Ireland to Dublin where any 5k 10k or 20k limit didn't apply to and caught flights out of Dublin...

Anyhow, as I've said, all 2020 there wasn't anyone prosecuted for travelling to the Air/sea ports...

Donald Trump

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Also was a lot of people travelling from Northern Ireland to Dublin where any 5k 10k or 20k limit didn't apply to and caught flights out of Dublin...

Anyhow, as I've said, all 2020 there wasn't anyone prosecuted for travelling to the Air/sea ports...

They might not have done it, but it does not mean that they do not have the power to do so. So people planning travel should just be aware and can make their decisions based on the full knowledge.


You may recall when legislation was first brought it and it wasn't applicable to people from the North because it was based off the place of normal residence.

Donald Trump

Donald Trump wrote: »

Sure:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2020/act/1/enacted/en/html


and
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2020/si/701/made/en/print


Be logical. People are being fined. There has to be legislation backing even a fine.

Donald Trump wrote: »

They might not have done it, but it does not mean that they do not have the power to do so. So people planning travel should just be aware and can make their decisions based on the full knowledge.


You may recall when legislation was first brought it and it wasn't applicable to people from the North because it was based off the place of normal residence.

UN convention on human rights contain a clause for 'the right to return'. No nation can stop you leaving theirs and returning to your own nation without a very iron clad reason. The legislation allows for returning home as 'essential travel'.

Travelling out of the country is allowed. Our borders are not closed

dartboardio

Travel out of the country has never been banned or stopped, thats where people are getting confused.

Actually, my car was stopped while travelling to the airport during the level 5 lockdown in october where you weren't supposed to be outside 5km, the garda asked me where i was off to, 'to catch a flight' and he waved me on. He didn't ask where I was flying to, because it's none of his business, whether I was travelling for a break away, or a funeral, or work.

I have been to the airport 4 times since July, and not once was I stopped at the airport or asked where I was going or why I was travelling out of the country.

Tenzor07

Donald Trump wrote: »

They might not have done it, but it does not mean that they do not have the power to do so. So people planning travel should just be aware and can make their decisions based on the full knowledge.
You may recall when legislation was first brought it and it wasn't applicable to people from the North because it was based off the place of normal residence.

Bottom line is you're not going to be arrested for going to the Air/Sea ports... probably just receive advice..

Plus as you can see, it's a great distraction from the failures all through 2020 to bring in free/mandatory testing at Irish ports for incoming travellers...


Finally, there's hardly any flights, little or no passengers, and no non-essential holidays going on regardless of any travel advice in Ireland..

gmisk

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40213163.html
One flight into Ireland sparked 59 Covid cases in six HSE regions - study

Surely with stories like this they can't really resist calls for mandatory testing/quarantine..

fm

gmisk wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40213163.html
One flight into Ireland sparked 59 Covid cases in six HSE regions - study

Surely with stories like this they can't really resist calls for mandatory testing/quarantine..

1 story from last year, anymore?

Mr. Karate

acequion wrote: »

What are you talking about now?

Travel outside the state is not against the law. There is a Govt advisory against non essential travel but it's an advisory not a law.

All of these restrictions are advisory. Not law. The sooner people cop on to this the sooner we'll be back to normal.

gmisk

fm wrote: »

1 story from last year, anymore?

Huh....does it matter? Maybe have a look yourself?
It is an actual study....into a plane which was only 17 percent full...

Necro

acequion wrote: »

That provocative, troll like comment doesn't deserve a reply and I won't dignify it with one.

Anyone with an open mind can read back over this thread and see the varying opinions and their reasons.But zealots won't want to do that.

Mod:

Threadbanned, a number of your posts have been overly personal where there is no need for it whatsoever

HeidiHeidi

Mr. Karate wrote: »

All of these restrictions are advisory. Not law. The sooner people cop on to this the sooner we'll be back to normal.

What your version of "normal" in this scenario, out of interest?