Will you travel? [Mod Note in Post #1 - Travel Discussion Only! Megathread]

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

To be fair, in WW2 you weren’t banned from seeing your relatives, from going to the pub, from seeing friends, from hooking up, from being at a dying relatives bedside, from going to the park or beach more than 5km away. If you lived alone you weren’t stuck in your house getting more and more isolated There were a lot of deaths. That is literally the only comparableIt’s a completely nonsense equivalence

Nah I'd call bobloxs on that tbf.

The topic is travelling and you sure as heck couldn't fek off on your holidays during WW2.

Buy yeah there were all kinds of awful restrictions - from food and alcohol being rationed and depending where you lived daily curfews and huge shortages of fuel which meant even if you wanted to see your friends or whoever in the next town or get a train - you often couldn't. And that went on for years.

More importantly there was no Internet and phones were as rare as hens teeth.

So yeah it stands - the feking whinging at present is at an Olympic prize level tbf.

Tenzor07

You could travel during WW2, you just had to risk your life in order to do so...and the way some of you on here go on about Travel and Covid you'd swear both were just as dangerous! :rolleyes:

gozunda

Tenzor07 wrote: »

You could travel during WW2, you just had to risk your life in order to do so...and the way some of you on here go on about Travel and Covid you'd swear both were just as dangerous! :rolleyes:

Nope - there were draconian restrictions on travel in ww2 if you were stupid enough to risk it :pac:

But no nothing to do with 'dangerous'. Its simply a bit of common sense. We've been asked not to travel for non essential purposes. And yet we have a small number screaming and roaring that they need their weeks holiday in Lanzarote or wherever.

The UK have restricted all travel and made it illegal to travel abroad for holidays and other leisure purposes. The same thing is going to happen here if people continue to flaunt current advice.

Yeah and I acknowledge we could all do with a holiday. Thst said I'll skip it until I know things are better both here and abroad.

HeidiHeidi

agoodpunt wrote: »

When I was abroad recently met many who where in need of a break, dublin has exerienced nearly a year of social restarurant and bar closure no other country in europe has inposed such dracorain rules so fair play to those, we must protect the mental health of the living, locking down is killing the living
I know a HR manager of a large company would have told some wfh employees to take a break as their mental health is now becoming more of an issue.
I will be on my way again very soon essential of course

Do you think that just because you tag this onto the end of a sentence it makes it all ok?


That's the second time I've seen it - not sure if it was you, or there are two equally deluded posters out there, but it seems to be the posting equivalent of hands over the ears going "lalalalalalalalalalala"

Tenzor07

gozunda wrote: »

Nope - there were draconian restrictions on travel in ww2 if you were stupid enough to risk it :pac:
But no nothing to do with 'dangerous'. Its simply a bit of common sense. We've been asked not to travel for non essential purposes. And yet we have a small number screaming and roaring that they need their weeks holiday in Lanzarote or wherever.
Yeah and I acknowledge we could all do with a holiday. Thst said I'll skip it until I know things are better both here and abroad.

Now you've got it "Small number" traveling, what did Varadkar say, something like a fraction of 1% of the population?
Last month it was Retail, this month it;s Travel to blame for the high levels of Covid... Care to guess what it will be next Month?

Hellrazer

gozunda wrote: »

Nope - there were draconian restrictions on travel in ww2 if you were stupid enough to risk it :pac:

But no nothing to do with 'dangerous'. Its simply a bit of common sense. We've been asked not to travel for non essential purposes. And yet we have a small number screaming and roaring that they need their weeks holiday in Lanzarote or wherever.

The UK have restricted all travel and made it illegal to travel abroad for holidays and other leisure purposes. The same thing is going to happen here if people continue to flaunt current advice.

Yeah and I acknowledge we could all do with a holiday. Thst said I'll skip it until I know things are better both here and abroad.

And yet WHO have advised against having international travel restrictions.

The only reason we are in the situation is because we have an inept government , a useless heath service that got overwhelmed with a couple of thousand cases, a CMO who never stops beating the lockdown drum, a population who swallows everything thats fed to them without questioning it and a media that are loving the doom and gloom every day.


https://www.who.int/news-room/articles-detail/updated-who-recommendations-for-international-traffic-in-relation-to-covid-19-outbreak

Recommendations for international traffic
WHO continues to advise against the application of travel or trade restrictions to countries experiencing COVID-19 outbreaks.

In general, evidence shows that restricting the movement of people and goods during public health emergencies is ineffective in most situations and may divert resources from other interventions. Furthermore, restrictions may interrupt needed aid and technical support, may disrupt businesses, and may have negative social and economic effects on the affected countries. However, in certain circumstances, measures that restrict the movement of people may prove temporarily useful, such as in settings with few international connections and limited response capacities.

Travel measures that significantly interfere with international traffic may only be justified at the beginning of an outbreak, as they may allow countries to gain time, even if only a few days, to rapidly implement effective preparedness measures. Such restrictions must be based on a careful risk assessment, be proportionate to the public health risk, be short in duration, and be reconsidered regularly as the situation evolves.

Travel bans to affected areas or denial of entry to passengers coming from affected areas are usually not effective in preventing the importation of cases but may have a significant economic and social impact. Since WHO declaration of a public health emergency of international concern in relation to COVID-19, and as of 27 February, 38 countries have reported to WHO additional health measures that significantly interfere with international traffic in relation to travel to and from China or other countries, ranging from denial of entry of passengers, visa restrictions or quarantine for returning travellers. Several countries that denied entry of travellers or who have suspended the flights to and from China or other affected countries, are now reporting cases of COVID-19.

Temperature screening alone, at exit or entry, is not an effective way to stop international spread, since infected individuals may be in incubation period, may not express apparent symptoms early on in the course of the disease, or may dissimulate fever through the use of antipyretics; in addition, such measures require substantial investments for what may bear little benefits. It is more effective to provide prevention recommendation messages to travellers and to collect health declarations at arrival, with travellers’ contact details, to allow for a proper risk assessment and a possible contact tracing of incoming travellers.

Dr. Em

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Just read the News Talk article: "Barely any change to Dublin Airport passenger numbers after new fines introduced"

That's mad!
There is a level 5 national lock-down. Everywhere in the world is still suffering from Corona. But people are still going on holiday. How pig headed, self absorbed do you have to be? :pac:

Did they mention what baseline they were measuring against? The number of arrivals halved after mandatory PCR tests were introduced mid-Jan. Departures should have likewise fallen, but if they only measured against the last two weeks in Jan, it wouldn't reflect that earlier drop.
The potential to be barred by the airline from flying for not having a negative test seems to be a greater deterrent than fines, in any case.

Hellrazer

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Care to guess what it will be next Month?

Aliens - they are bringing it in when they abduct people and probe them!!!
But are Aliens travelling for probing purposes "essential " travel?

gozunda

Hellrazer wrote: »

And yet WHO have advised against having international travel restrictions.

The only reason we are in the situation is because we have an inept government , a useless heath service that got overwhelmed with a couple of thousand cases, a CMO who never stops beating the lockdown drum, a population who swallows everything thats fed to them without questioning it and a media that are loving the doom and gloom every day.


https://www.who.int/news-room/articles-detail/updated-who-recommendations-for-international-traffic-in-relation-to-covid-19-outbreak

We are far from the only country where travel abroad is restricted. For example - The UK is *currently* restricting all travel and have made it illegal to travel abroad for holidays and other leisure purposes. 

The WHO unfortunately got us into much of this mess when they decided to enthusiasticly head nod the Chinese and told countries not to shut down travel out of China during the initial outbreak despite the fact that China was issuing draconian internal restrictions on flying and travel for their own population.

Hellrazer

gozunda wrote: »

We are far from the only country where travel abroad is restricted. For example - The UK is currently restricting all travel and made it illegal to travel abroad for holidays and other leisure purposes. 

The WHO unfortunately got us into much of this mess when they decided to enthusiasticly head nod the Chinese and not shut down travel out of China during the initial outbreak despite that China was issuing draconian internal restrictions on flying and travel for their own population.

Im not disputing that we arent the only country with restricted travel. Im questioning whether these travel restrictions actually have any effect on the spread of the virus.
WHO obviously dont think so.

faceman

gozunda wrote: »

We are far from the only country where travel abroad is restricted. For example - The UK is currently restricting all travel and have made it illegal to travel abroad for holidays and other leisure purposes. 

The WHO unfortunately got us into much of this mess when they decided to enthusiasticly head nod the Chinese and told countries not to shut down travel out of China during the initial outbreak despite the fact that China was issuing draconian internal restrictions on flying and travel for their own population.

Thats not entirely correct about the UK. There is a ban on non essential international travel as part of the current restrictions, but that ban hasn't always been in place in the UK, where as in Ireland technically international travel is only permitted under tier 1 and 2.

The UK is introducing a list of approx 30 countries where mandatory quarantine detention centres will used. All of these countries are outside the EU. All other travellers are required to quarantine at home.

Some politicians called to close airports but that isn't happening

gozunda

Hellrazer wrote: »

Im not disputing that we arent the only country with restricted travel. Im questioning whether these travel restrictions actually have any effect on the spread of the virus.
WHO obviously dont think.

The WHOs advice and geo-politics don't always stand up to scrutiny imo.

WHO didn't believe that travel from China should have been restricted during the intial outbreak despite Chinas draconian locking down of its own. WHO didn't think that P2P transmission was possible - becsuse that's the line the Chinese were pushing. WHO didn't believe that masks were of use ..

DubLad69

I've just went and booked myself a holiday for the middle of July.

I don't mind getting the tests, and if I have to do the two weeks quarantine in a hotel at my own expense when I return then so be it.

The flight and villa are giving free changes, so if International travel is completely banned I will change it to another time.

I expect that we will be allowed to travel by then, and if not the only real safety issue that I can see is the flight itself. Apart from that we will be spending the two weeks by ourselves by the pool.

Tenzor07

gozunda wrote: »

The WHOs advice and geo-politics don't always stand up to scrutiny imo.
WHO didn't believe that travel from China shouldn't have been restricted during the intial outbreak despite Chinas draconian locking down of its own. WHO didn't think that P2P transmission was possible - becsuse that's the line the Chinese were pushing. WHO didn't believe that masks were of use ..

Restricting Travel out of China back this time last year? Bit like closing the door when the horse has bolted no?

Tenzor07

DubLad69 wrote: »

I expect that we will be allowed to travel by then, and if not the only real safety issue that I can see is the flight itself. Apart from that we will be spending the two weeks by ourselves by the pool.

The risk isn't the flight, it's what people do when they reach their destinations and how they behave.. I fully expect that all the mask/hygiene/social distancing/reduced numbers rules will stay in place this Summer in Europe.

mandrake04

Tazz T wrote: »

That's how pandemics works. What's your point? Not one country has stopped the virus from coming in by putting anti-travel restrictions in place. See those Zero Covid countries. None have stopped it and none will. it will get in the minute they relax restrictions unless they want to remain cut of from the world forever.

At least countries like NZ are actually living a life rather than some sort of half life, they are just playing it cool sitting back watching most of the countries around the world shit themselves and are now on their knees.


Its now obvious that living-with-covid just doesn't work, so they know that those countries more desperate than themselves now have more of an incentive to come up with a working solution. In the mean time there's only two real choices.

(a) Live (or Half-live) with continuous lockdowns and tight restrictions.
(b) Mandatory Quarantine with very few restrictions.

If vaccinations is the solution then it should resolve everyone's problems, if not then everything probably stays as it is.

Tazz T wrote: »

They are delaying the inevitable. in fact, you could argue it will be much worse as they won't have any immunity to new variants.

Are they?

Ireland has 200K confirmed cases... lets be generous and say they have really had 400K, that's about 8% of the population and its taken a year of restrictions to get there.... is this 4-8% going be of much benefit?

B.A._Baracus

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Just read the News Talk article: "Barely any change to Dublin Airport passenger numbers after new fines introduced"

That's mad!
There is a level 5 national lock-down. Everywhere in the world is still suffering from Corona. But people are still going on holiday. How pig headed, self absorbed do you have to be? :pac:

have you a link to prove people are going on holidays? Maybe its because they have citizenship of another country and maybe live there but were visiting relatives in Ireland, or maybe were doing essential work in Ireland? Maybe they returned home to Ireland for Christmas , got Covid and are now only fit to return to their lives and jobs abroad? Maybe they are travelling abroad for medical treatment (Vicky Phelan did recently)?
How do you know everyone is going on holidays?

Quantum Baloney

Isn't the expectation that cases and deaths will drop massively in summer? So why can't people travel? Otherwise we are waiting till what? Summer 2022? They are crazy if they think people won't travel.

Danno

Micky 32 wrote: »

Oh give over will ya. My post was aimed at people who want travel banned and borders closed permanently. I have no intention of travelling until herd immunity is achieved.

As for foreign holidays, the main reason i travel is because i have family in another country. I have no interest in sun holidays.

I have family in another house down the road that I can't travel to. Why is someone allowed visit family in another country, but those living here are not allowed to visit internally within Ireland?

josip

Danno wrote: »

I have family in another house down the road that I can't travel to. Why is someone allowed visit family in another country, but those living here are not allowed to visit internally within Ireland?

Must be a bloody long road Danno.
Why can't you walk down to them and say hello?

gozunda

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Restricting Travel out of China back this time last year? Bit like closing the door when the horse has bolted no?

Why then was China locking itself down and then suspending travel by foreign nationals into the People’s Republic of China since March 26 2020?

Yet we had WHO were losing their **** over other countries doing the same with Chinese nationals travelling from China and implying that everyone else were all a big bunch of racists or similar as placing travel restrictions on China would cause "fear and stigma".


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-05/who-coronavirus-update-china-travel/11930752

daydorunrun

Quantum Baloney wrote: »

Isn't the expectation that cases and deaths will drop massively in summer? So why can't people travel? Otherwise we are waiting till what? Summer 2022? They are crazy if they think people won't travel.

Deaths will definitely drop over the summer and the mood will brighten, darkest time is always before dawn and all that jazz.

I think there are a lot of people who need to realise that this virus is with us now- it is not going away. I know there are some still thinking sacrificing a foreign holiday this year will mean we can all do it safely next year, the risk could be less but it will still be there. I think it will eventually become an issue of shield/vaccinate the vulnerable (perhaps by age and underlying conditions) and then open back up with a reintroduction of individual responsibility, testing, vaccination certification etc. We have definitely moved on from living with covid to hiding from covid at the moment because of the whole variant issue.

timeToLive

josip wrote: »

Must be a bloody long road Danno.
Why can't you walk down to them and say hello?

Because you're not allowed to?

MarkY91

timeToLive wrote: »

Because you're not allowed to?

Who's going to stop you?

timeToLive

timeToLive wrote: »

Because you're not allowed to?

I think that you are achieving nothing more than martyring yourself, as are so many others. Going down to their house, interacting with no-one on the way, and chatting to them outside is zero incremental risk to yourself, your family, and wider society.

Just go visit them#

Edit: sorry thought was replying to Danno

dalyboy

MarkY91 wrote: »

Who's going to stop you?

Nobody
I’ve family 12km from me and I’m legally entitled to visit them.

josip

timeToLive wrote: »

Because you're not allowed to?

When I go out for a walk with the dog, I sometimes meet other parents from school. I stop, stay a few metres away and we chat for 5 or 10 minutes and then we go on our way.

From a likelihood of spreading the virus perspective, how is that any different to occasionally walking to/past a family members house and having a chat outside for 5 or 10 minutes?

dalyboy

dalyboy wrote: »

Nobody
I’ve family 12km from me and I’m legally entitled to visit them.

depends on circumstances to be fair to the chap. Second cousin just for tea isnt allowed

josip

josip wrote: »

When I go out for a walk with the dog, I sometimes meet other parents from school. I stop, stay a few metres away and we chat for 5 or 10 minutes and then we go on our way.

From a likelihood of spreading the virus perspective, how is that any different to occasionally walking to/past a family members house and having a chat outside for 5 or 10 minutes?

yeah but you arent supposed to. He didnt say he couldnt physically do it or he agreed with it, he said we arent allowed

timeToLive

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

yeah but you arent supposed to. He didnt say he couldnt physically do it or he agreed with it, he said we arent allowed

Yeah, and I don't agree with it either by the way