Will you travel? [Mod Note in Post #1 - Travel Discussion Only! Megathread]

bladespin

gozunda wrote: »

No one wants to be 'lockdowned' and referring to those who observe restrictions as 'lockdowners' is pretty fuking pathetic tbh.

Pretty sure the reference is to the lockdown supporters - not those who are adhering to the advice - there is a difference which can be seen in any Covid thread.

Wallander

caveat emptor wrote: »

Zerocovid? What do you mean? Who's talking about that.

I was talking about mandatory hotel quarantine for inbound travellers. For instance that would have prevented the Spanish variant coming here during the summer. Do you remember? It didn't walk here. It actually accounted for the majority of cases in Ireland in October.

The likes of Frank and Una played a part in that IMHO and that's why we need to use our empty hotels.



https://twitter.com/IrishTimes/status/1321757579656220672?s=20

It's a reasonable point but my own suspicion is once a variant takes root somewhere in Europe, it can't be stopped spreading around the continent. Think about how many goods in Ireland come from abroad. You can close the border and test hauliers, but it's impossible not to have them driving all over, and once you have one or two cases, it takes root and spreads.


I wouldn't actually mind Ireland trying these kind of extreme border controls for a couple of months to show how futile they would be. Watch Germany in the next few weeks - they've slapped travel bans on the UK and Ireland to stop the new variant, and are trying to test everyone coming in via land, but in the meantime it's been spreading in Portugal, Spain and is about to be the majority variant in the Netherlands, which Germany shares an open border with. I believe in a couple of months they will have the variant too and will drop these travel restrictions.

caveat emptor

daydorunrun wrote: »

Edit: Just on the Spanish variant- Just because the tweet you post shows holiday makers in a queue with sombreros doesn't mean it came from people on holidays. It came from an agricultural area of northern Spain, not too many in that queue heading there. Farm works, transport links and even Spanish students could be equally to blame. Not to mention Spain being part of a borderless continent so that variant or any for that matter could come from an essential business traveller heading anywhere within Europe.

Fairly disingenuous to characterise the tweet as "people in sombreros". There isn't one person in the photo with a sombrero.

However what there is is a link to an Irish times story.
Feel free to take it up with them.
The story describes a scientific study. By all means feel free to publish a paper refuting their findings.

Whataboutery doesn't cut it at this stage. Blame the farm workers if it makes you feel better.

Here's a story from the 13th of October.

Over 190,000 people flew into Dublin Airport from Covid hotspots in four week period
Thousands more flew into Cork and Shannon terminals during the same four week period

Almost 50,000 people are still flying into Ireland every week from Covid-19 hotspots while the country struggles to stop the spread of the disease.

New figures have revealed more than 191,000 flew into Dublin Airport from countries like the US, Italy, Spain, Greece and Portugal in a four week period between September 7 and October 4.

Thousands more flew into Cork and Shannon terminals during the same four week period.


It means nearly 7,000 people are flying into the country every day despite soaring cases and while other European countries threaten further lockdowns as they try to suppress a second wave.

Hellrazer

gozunda wrote: »

Those who take the pss and wrongly believe they know better than the current health advice need a good kick up the rear end imo.

But what "if" the current health advice from our health service is wrong?

Ive already pointed out that WHO doesnt recommend restricting international travel. They also dont recommend lock down after lock down.

Tony Holohans sole purpose is to keep us in lockdown (and away from the demon drink) while other countries are trying to live with Covid and reopen. That man shouldnt be anywhere near "health advice" after his previous fiasco.

In my opinion a trained monkey could give better "health advice" than this lot.

Its always someone elses fault with them when in reality is they did nothing after the 1st lockdown to ensure we had the capacity in our health services for further surges and keep people safe.

Lockdown after lockdown after lockdown is not the solution and until they realise that we will still be posting in thread number 99999999 in a few years time giving out about the current lock down.

Hellrazer

Hellrazer wrote: »

But what "if" the current health advice from our health service is wrong?

Ive already pointed out that WHO doesnt recommend restricting international travel. They also dont recommend lock down after lock down.

Tony Holohans sole purpose is to keep us in lockdown (and away from the demon drink) while other countries are trying to live with Covid and reopen. That man shouldnt be anywhere near "health advice" after his previous fiasco.

In my opinion a trained monkey could give better "health advice" than this lot.

Its always someone elses fault with them when in reality is they did nothing after the 1st lockdown to ensure we had the capacity in our health services for further surges and keep people safe.

Lockdown after lockdown after lockdown is not the solution and until they realise that we will still be posting in thread number 99999999 in a few years time giving out about the current lock down.

Once all 50+ are vaccinated in May in the UK, and the Irish see all the British flying off to Greece (as is the stated plan from the Greeks and the British) I think it will be very hard to maintain a disciplined lockdown in Ireland, and continue to try to stop holidays in Europe

daydorunrun

caveat emptor wrote: »

Fairly disingenuous to characterise the tweet as "people in sombreros". There isn't one person in the photo with a sombrero.

However what there is is a link to an Irish times story.
Feel free to take it up with them.
The story describes a scientific study. By all means feel free to publish a paper refuting their findings.

Whataboutery doesn't cut it at this stage. Blame the farm workers if it makes you feel better.

Here's a story from the 13th of October.

Those numbers of inward travel Coincide with cases being relatively low here. Obviously travel was a problem and it needed to be addressed. The introduction of testing and legal self isolating does this now. Pity the government didn’t bring it in sooner but they got off the hook in terms of anger from the media and general population. Easier to blame Frank and Una I suppose.
I am in favour of protecting our boarders, I not in favour of closing them. If somebody wants or needs to travel they should be allowed to do so within the guild lines of testing and self isolating

In terms of being disingenuous I’m pretty sure I wasn’t- I was trying to evoke the ‘we’re all off to sunny Spain’ vibe Photo was emanating- suggesting variants can be solely traced to foreign holiday behaviour.

JojoLoca

daydorunrun wrote: »

I used to think like you in the beginning, time has changed that though. The government are delighted with your attitude and direction your anger is being directed.....because it takes the heat off their mis management of health service/nursing homes/vaccines. We want to burn people at the stake who travel safely (pre/ post testing, isolating and not living a life abroad that is conducive to Covid spread).
Out of interest do you believe people who get a positive test should be forced by law to self isolate?
Or what about people who are called for a test as a close contact but refuse to go? One step further- somebody gets a positive test and continues to go to shops etc. Should they be removed from society into quarantine?
People not doing everything they can/should is a far bigger problem then some oap’s living out some Months of their golden years In the sun before returning here after being tested.
People really seem to think us hiding away will get rid of this virus...... it won’t. We need to live with it.

Totally. People who test positive in the country are not supervised to self-isolate, no one is checking on them or locking them up in the detention centres. Yet, so many would like to see people who travel (with negative test results) to be locked up in the hotel on the arrival, as they can't be trusted to self-isolate.

gozunda

Hellrazer wrote: »

But what "if" the current health advice from our health service is wrong?

Ive already pointed out that WHO doesnt recommend restricting international travel. They also dont recommend lock down after lock down.

Tony Holohans sole purpose is to keep us in lockdown (and away from the demon drink) while other countries are trying to live with Covid and reopen. That man shouldnt be anywhere near "health advice" after his previous fiasco.

In my opinion a trained monkey could give better "health advice" than this lot.

Its always someone elses fault with them when in reality is they did nothing after the 1st lockdown to ensure we had the capacity in our health services for further surges and keep people safe.

Lockdown after lockdown after lockdown is not the solution and until they realise that we will still be posting in thread number 99999999 in a few years time giving out about the current lock down.

Depends who posing the 'ifs' I suppose. If it's Tommy and the wife who dont believe that Covid exists and they decide to hell with the restrictions and head off to Playa dela Plague - for some sun and sangria then that's a real issue.

As already outlined the WHOs 'advice and recommendations seems to be more prevaricated on geo-political economics and not wishing to offend the Chinese going by results to date. In this instance I don't blame governments for using their own scientific experts tbf.

Our nearest neighbour- the UK has an even more strict regime in relation to travel than here. Ditto Germany and other European countries. And I don't see lockdowns going on indefinitely. Vaccination is going to help there - as is getting down and keeping down rates if infection. We've already done that here. Next time everyone thinks its time to completely let loose and party - just maybe their might be a bit more common sense.

And as ****e as our health services may be - imo they have stood up fairly well with the onslaught of covid cases. Not an excuse but much wealthier countries have equally fuked up health services. Its certainly a major problem and one which won't be sorted in the short term.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

Nermal wrote: »

Sacrifices you made of your own free will. Frank and Una didn't force you to make them. Revel in your martyrdom all you like. It's not a stick you can use to hit others.

No one's revelling in martyrdom, and people are making sacrifices because they're complying with the laws and guidelines designed to stop the spread of covid.

Do you think Dr's and nurses are working crazy hours and putting their own lives at risk of their own free will?
Do you think parents are homeschooling their kids of their own free will?
Do you think business owners have closed their shops and restaurants and pubs of their own free will?
Do you think people have had medical appointments and cancer screenings cancelled of their own free will?

Can you explain why you think people's sacrifices are all down to free will?

JojoLoca

Deleted User wrote: »

Once all 50+ are vaccinated in May in the UK, and the Irish see all the British flying off to Greece (as is the stated plan from the Greeks and the British) I think it will be very hard to maintain a disciplined lockdown in Ireland, and continue to try to stop holidays in Europe

But they will try. That's what happened last summer, most of Europe re-opened (including pubs), people were free to travel abroad (if they chose to) while taking precautions, meanwhile in Ireland people were made to believe that travelling abroad is illegal and forced staycations.

normanoffside

Bria Unsightly Paragraph wrote: »

No one's revelling in martyrdom, and people are making sacrifices because they're complying with the laws and guidelines designed to stop the spread of covid.

Do you think Dr's and nurses are working crazy hours and putting their own lives at risk of their own free will?
Do you think parents are homeschooling their kids of their own free will?
Do you think business owners have closed their shops and restaurants and pubs of their own free will?
Do you think people have had medical appointments and cancer screenings cancelled of their own free will?

Can you explain why you think people's sacrifices are all down to free will?

How does someone leaving the country increase the spread of Covid in the country they are leaving?

c68zapdsm5i1ru

JojoLoca wrote: »

But they will try. That's what happened last summer, most of Europe re-opened (including pubs), people were free to travel abroad (if they chose to) while taking precautions, meanwhile in Ireland people were made to believe that travelling abroad is illegal and forced staycations.

No one was made to believe that travel abroad was illegal. People stayed at home because they were using common sense, adhering to guidelines or didn't want to isolate for 2 weeks on their return.

Donald Trump

Hellrazer wrote: »

Ive already pointed out that WHO doesnt recommend restricting international travel. They also dont recommend lock down after lock down.

You are confusing things. Or else putting a particular slant on things that suit your own personal position.



The WHO don't recommend yo-yoing in and out of lockdown as a strategy. That does not mean that it is not necessary given circumstances at that time. Or that it should not be a piece of the solution.



In the same way that the morning after pill shouldn't be your go-to contraception strategy ......... but if it turns out that you make a mistake or have an "accident" then the doctor is hardly going to say "no, I won't prescribe it because it isn't a recommended strategy for protecting against unwanted pregnancy"


You also appear to conveniently forget the admonishing of the UK by the WHO at the start for not getting their act together and putting in restrictions sooner.


Ironically, if gobshies weren't breaking restrictions, then we likely wouldn't need as many by now

c68zapdsm5i1ru

normanoffside wrote: »

How does someone leaving the country increase the spread of Covid in the country they are leaving?

People travelling in and out of countries increases the spread. That's why there are guidelines and now laws about it. Sure, there will be people who won't spread it but, as with everything in life, laws have to be general and can't be left up to the discretion of individuals.

normanoffside

Bria Unsightly Paragraph wrote: »

People travelling in and out of countries increases the spread. That's why there are guidelines and now laws about it. Sure, there will be people who won't spread it but, as with everything in life, laws have to be general and can't be left up to the discretion of individuals.

But People were angry at them leaving and being in another country.
How does them leaving Ireland increase the spread of Covid in Ireland?

Bria Unsightly Paragraph

Bria Unsightly Paragraph wrote: »

People travelling in and out of countries increases the spread. That's why there are guidelines and now laws about it. Sure, there will be people who won't spread it but, as with everything in life, laws have to be general and can't be left up to the discretion of individuals.

Frank and Una arent coming back - not for a long time - they are zero risk to us here in Ireland. I think more power to them, I only wish I could be out there with them. They are older and they have nothing to lose especially as it is just the two of them living alone in the Canaries. I hope they really enjoy it. If people are honest, they are angry because they are miserable and jealous sitting here in Ireland ...in February ....in the rain. (I know I am)

normanoffside

normanoffside wrote: »

But People were angry at them leaving and being in another country.
How does them leaving Ireland increase the spread of Covid in Ireland?

It doesn't. I definitely think that there is a strong feeling of jealousy and animosity from many towards those who are able to get out of Ireland and see out the restrictions in a place that has a nicer winter and is less restrictive

0lddog

normanoffside wrote: »

But People were angry at them leaving and being in another country.
How does them leaving Ireland increase the spread of Covid in Ireland?

I suspect that the answer to that is linked to the Third Secret of Fatima.


The present restrictions are no longer based on science but on political interpretation of public opinion.

HeidiHeidi

Deleted User wrote: »

It doesn't. I definitely think that there is a strong feeling of jealousy and animosity from many towards those who are able to get out of Ireland and see out the restrictions in a place that has a nicer winter and is less restrictive

I suspect there's a strong feeling of some people being able to see the connection between individual decisions for one's own pleasure/benefit, and the knock-on effects of that if everyone decided to do the same.


There's a reason there are blanket restrictions in place during a pandemic, and couples going on solo runs (and worse, trumpeting that on national radio) does nothing to help the collective effort needed to get us out of this.

normanoffside

0lddog wrote: »

I suspect that the answer to that is linked to the Third Secret of Fatima.


The present restrictions are no longer based on science but on political interpretation of public opinion.

That's exactly it but a lot of people are not able to think logically and want everyone to blindly follow 'rules' without questioning them.

The rage on some of the callers yesterday was palpable but all their arguments to why what Frank and Una were doing was a 'disgrace' was based on their own personal circumstances. It had nothing to do with why what the travellers were doing was dangerous (because it isn't dangerous- in fact it decreases the risk of covid in Ireland).

monkeybutter

normanoffside wrote: »

That's exactly it but a lot of people are not able to think logically and want everyone to blindly follow 'rules' without questioning them.

The rage on some of the callers yesterday was palpable but all their arguments to why what Frank and Una were doing was a 'disgrace' was based on their own personal circumstances. It had nothing to do with why what the travellers were doing was dangerous (because it isn't dangerous- in fact it decreases the risk of covid in Ireland).

how does it reduce the risk of covid in ireland

normanoffside

monkeybutter wrote: »

how does it reduce the risk of covid in ireland

Is that a serious question?
Because they are not here.

monkeybutter

normanoffside wrote: »

Is that a serious question?
Because they are not here.

you mean if they never come back?

normanoffside

monkeybutter wrote: »

you mean if they never come back?

Maybe they won’t.
There was no discussion about anger because of them coming back, in fact one caller I think said they should come back immediately because they were a disgrace for going away.

monkeybutter

normanoffside wrote: »

Maybe they won’t.
There was no discussion about anger because of them coming back, in fact one caller I think said they should come back immediately because they were a disgrace for going away.

that would be the only way they would reduce it, if they didn't come back


because breaking the 5km limit, upping their close contacts to sit on a plane taxi restaurant somewhere else to come home then is not reducing it

agoodpunt

monkeybutter wrote: »

how does it reduce the risk of covid in ireland

I have spent nearly half this last year abroad yes there is more open hence the attraction but more compliance on masking and distance never see a mask tossed on the ground.
I have seen a spanish policeman yell at a tourist "put ur mask on" while reaching for his gun while our excuse of a force can only turn people back who are pcr neg tested at the airport ignoring bigger breaches like those who wont test.

The spread and restrictions are halfass based the spreading is done at ethnic group activities, family homes, meat factories, hospitals old folks homes, tacticle these and you will get numbers down
Banning travel for people going on holiday is just a distraction, am off next month again will not be stopped

monkeybutter

agoodpunt wrote: »

I have spent nearly half this last year abroad yes there is more open hence the attraction but more compliance on masking and distance never see a mask tossed on the ground.
I have seen a spanish policeman yell at a tourist "put ur mask on" while reaching for his gun while our excuse of a force can only turn people back who are pcr neg tested at the airport ignoring bigger breaches like those who wont test.

The spread and restrictions are halfass based the spreading is done at ethnic group activities, family homes, meat factories, hospitals old folks homes, tacticle these and you will get numbers down
Banning travel for people going on holiday is just a distraction, am off next month again will not be stopped

you see you are the kind of person who is the problem


whether its i wont be vaccinated, I wont wear a mask, I'll go where I like


sure I'll have a party, cause I want to, I'll go to a lock in sure its great craic


the countries who have put tight restrictions on selfish people travelling have been successful


thats all there is to say about it

c68zapdsm5i1ru

normanoffside wrote: »

But People were angry at them leaving and being in another country.
How does them leaving Ireland increase the spread of Covid in Ireland?

So how do you think travel restrictions should be worded?

blackvalley

Wallander wrote: »

I did a search and this came up https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13955422/vaccine-passport-brit-holidays/


I'm looking forward to the inevitable NPHET press briefing in the spring when they say allowing the vaccinated to travel is a terribly dangerous idea as 1% may be carrying the virus and will go crazy running around coughing over everyone and cause another lockdown which will happen regardless

They will also say that " The next two weeks are critical ":rolleyes:

c68zapdsm5i1ru

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

I suspect there's a strong feeling of some people being able to see the connection between individual decisions for one's own pleasure/benefit, and the knock-on effects of that if everyone decided to do the same.


There's a reason there are blanket restrictions in place during a pandemic, and couples going on solo runs (and worse, trumpeting that on national radio) does nothing to help the collective effort needed to get us out of this.

Thank you. That is exactly what I was trying to say.