Will you travel? [Mod Note in Post #1 - Travel Discussion Only! Megathread]

Donald Trump

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Really? You think its easy to uproot your life and move abroad at this moment in time?

Its never that easy, people have responsibilities beyond themselves.

You'll notice that I said "why haven't you moved" not "why do you not move". I am not talking about moving to escape covid restrictions.


Obviously this hatred for living here seems to be inherent in some of them. What hadn't they moved years ago? That is what I am asking.

Plumbthedepths

Donald Trump wrote: »

Well, just to point out that you have double the amount of posts in this thread that I do. Seems like a case of glass houses and stones for sneering at someone and going on about "pathetic" a "sad existence" just because they posted here. No?


The thread title is will you travel clearly you won't so what's the point of your presence here??

Going slightly off topic, all these people that seem to hate living here so much, seriously, why haven't you changed your situation and moved. It's not that difficult to do it.

Isn't the point of this thread travelling for leisure purposes as in holidays not permanent relocation.
I enjoy living here but I also enjoy foreign travel. Surely you can understand such a simple explanation?

Donald Trump

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Isn't the point of this thread travelling for leisure purposes as in holidays not permanent relocation.
I enjoy living here but I also enjoy foreign travel. Surely you can understand such a simple explanation?

There is a pandemic. Surely you can understand such a simple explanation?



By all means plan your travel. But you shouldn't be advertising breaking, or encouraging others to, break or bypass legal restrictions.

normanoffside

gozunda wrote: »

The Canaries are currently battling their Third wave of Coronavirus. And whilst things have improved for the islands overall - Lanzarote remains at the highest alert level - alert level 4 which was introduced due to rising case numbers and the number of ICU patients in Lanzarote hospital having reached a critical point.

If you're happy enough to send your dad off knowing then I'd say someone has their head stuck in the sand.

While all that is true, despite the increased level 4 restrictions; all hospitality and shops remain open (albeit with time limits) and there are no silly 5km limits for travel in the island either.
You can still go to the beach, sit outside in the sun for lunch and a drink, go to the shops, rent a car and visit the sites, so evidently the quality of life over there is way higher than in Ireland.
There is no quarantine or restricted movements on arrival once you bring a negative test from your home country.

Other islands are in lower levels so the restrictions are even less if you go to Gran Canaria, Fuerteventura, Tenerife etc.

Why wouldn't a retiree want to get away from cold, wet and heavily restricted Ireland for a bit normality, good weather and sanity?

gozunda

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

by the same token however, can you understand the frustration when healthy people in their 20s are being told to stay inside all day to protect the elderly that are vulnerable to death by Covid while that 70 year old then gets on a plane on holidays? I said it before, they didnt lock up the whole of Rome so the lepers could be free

Sure there's frustration. I'd personally fuking love to head off on holidays. But I'm not going to be that eejit.

Not sure what ancient Rome and lepers have got to do with it. But if you're interested in history and plagues you might want to read this.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonine_Plague

Plumbthedepths

Donald Trump wrote: »

By all means plan your travel. But you shouldn't be advertising breaking, or encouraging others to, break or bypass legal restrictions.

Since you have taken the time to check my post count kindly link any post where I have done what you have claimed above?
Lying is a very poor discussion style.

kerrylad1

gozunda wrote: »

Got it.

So he and yourself don't believe the fact that Lanzarote is at the highest alert level for the Canary Islands. Or that travel poses a significant risk to older people who immune systems are generally lower? Or god forbid the advisory that people do not undertake unnecessary travel?

If you and him think that's - as I've already said best of luck.

He knows the risks,etc etc etc.If the government really wanted to stop people leaving,they would shut down the flights.
But we all know,they wont take on the airlines,so instead,lets fine,all the old folks,€500 on the way to the airport instead.

gozunda

normanoffside wrote: »

...

Why wouldn't a retiree want to get away from cold, wet and heavily restricted Ireland for a bit normality, good weather and sanity?

Sure we would all love to head off to the sun for two weeks. Who wouldn't?

That said at present and regardless of anyone individuals 'sanity' or otherwise - I'd reckon its primarily because heading off to the airport + travel + flying + serviced accommodation poses an even higher risk than staying in any single location. For older people whose immune systems are often weaker- the risk is greater again. And whatever is going on globally atm - its certainly not 'normality'. Tbf many of the comments on this thread appear to be from a POV that Covid-19 is only an issue here or not at all. Unfortunately that is not the case.

mackD

With the news of their vaccine being pushed out for at least another two months to mid April, I can’t blame the 70-84 cohort for wanting to get out of this hellhole to be honest. The way they are being treated is disgusting.

mackD

mackD wrote: »

With the news of their vaccine being pushed out for at least another two months to mid April, I can’t blame the 70-84 cohort for wanting to get out of this hellhole to be honest. The way they are being treated is disgusting.

The grass is always greener! They might be leaving one “hellhole” for another worse one.

stephenjmcd

mackD wrote: »

With the news of their vaccine being pushed out for at least another two months to mid April, I can’t blame the 70-84 cohort for wanting to get out of this hellhole to be honest. The way they are being treated is disgusting.

Except they aren't pushed out for months, instead of all first doses by end of March its all first doses by mid April. So about 2 weeks longer

faceman

Donald Trump wrote: »

Soz, but still waiting on your evidence of structural change to the Spanish Healthcare system since March 2020.

I don’t work in the sector so I can’t give you a full picture. I’m not sure why there’s a call for structural reform info. Here’s what I can share both anecdotally and factually. I’m familiar with the Comunidad Valenciana region as that’s where I am. It’s population is 5m

Prior to covid, the region had over 440 standard ICU beds which is 25% higher than Ireland. The surge capacity is much higher than Ireland.

Prior to covid hospital beds per 1,000 people: Ireland had 2.97, Spain had 3.4.

Figures for both Ireland and Spain are blurry since covid happened as numbers have increased in both countries.

At the start of the pandemic Spain allocated €2.8bn to all regions for health services and created a new fund with €1bn for priority health intervention. Governance of health here is very impressive.

Anecdotally the consumer cost of healthcare is far lower than Ireland. Medicines are subsidised. Your pharmacist has more involvement than Ireland so you don’t need to visit your gp to get a routine prescription for most things. When you do need to, the health clinics are amazing, super efficient with more services than a standard gp surgery.

I’ve been in hospitals twice here, one was an A&E visit on a Saturday night. We were seen in less than an hour.

My ramblings aside it is widely accepted that Spanish healthcare is world class

Like Ireland though there were many failings in care homes early in the crisis. They were eventually addressed here and are far seldom now. The same can’t be said for Ireland.

Donald Trump

Donald Trump wrote: »

You'll notice that I said "why haven't you moved" not "why do you not move". I am not talking about moving to escape covid restrictions.


Obviously this hatred for living here seems to be inherent in some of them. What hadn't they moved years ago? That is what I am asking.

You will notice that I only mentioned now as a secondary comment.

Moving is not easy. I love how people make the comment like it is or that if you stay then you must blindly follow and believe.

People can question, its healthy. People can point out issues to try and resolve them.

and again, people can get stuck in a place or job they dont like for all sorts of reasons. Most people probable arent in their dream job. I was a teenage father so I stayed with my daughter or moved abroad. Life is full of sacrifices and hard choices.

mackD

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Except they aren't pushed out for months, instead of all first doses by end of March its all first doses by mid April. So about 2 weeks longer

Yeah thanks for the clarification, just saw an article posted about this in another thread. For some reason I thought the original plan was to start vaccinating the over 70s by mid February.

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

Sure there's frustration. I'd personally fuking love to head off on holidays. But I'm not going to be that eejit.

Not sure what ancient Rome and lepers have got to do with it. But if you're interested in history and plagues you might want to read this.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonine_Plague

I am interested, thanks.

My comment was pretty obvious I would have thought. you dont lock away the healthy to protect the vulnerable amd sick

kerrylad1

kerrylad1 wrote: »

He knows the risks,etc etc etc.If the government really wanted to stop people leaving,they would shut down the flights.
But we all know,they wont take on the airlines,so instead,lets fine,all the old folks,€500 on the way to the airport instead.

Would they? So how would you get supplies? How would absolutely essential travel be conducted?

They have already banned non essential travel but people keep breaking it, thus the fines.

gozunda

kerrylad1 wrote: »

He knows the risks,etc etc etc. If the government really wanted to stop people leaving,they would shut down the flights.
But we all know,they wont take on the airlines,so instead,lets fine,all the old folks,€500 on the way to the airport instead.

You may have a point there tbh. In Ireland we are at Level 5 in terms of infection rates and have an advisory against all non essential travel.

That said - companies like Ryanair have taken it on themselves to keep selling tickets for flights from Dublin to the Canaries and other holiday destinations even where some of these destinations like Lanzarote are also at the highest covid alert level.

Compare that with the UK where - it is illegal to travel abroad for holidays or other leisure purposes under current restrictions. Spain is in a declared state of emergency and has imposed a ban for travellers from the UK.

What that means is that UK nationals cannot travel to Spain or the Canary Islands from the UK.

Here in Ireland - if you decide to ignore the advisory for level 5, don't mind getting fined and choose to travel to a destination even though your travel insurance could be void - you can do so

We also have a developing situation where Dublin Airport is being used as a bypass by other nationalities to travel to and from destinations which would otherwise be proscribed.

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/dublinairport-coronavirus-uk-travelban-dubai-19787962.

Someone there is taking the mickey for sure.

josip

gmisk wrote: »

Hope.he enjoys his day out in court.
https://www.thejournal.ie/court-date-sommonses-for-covid-19-fines-non-payment-5346627-Feb2021/

Late 70s during a pandemic heading away on a holiday...what could possibly go wrong...

€1,000 or a month in prison.
Take the month in prison, you'll be out within the day, same as for the TV license.

whisky_galore

josip wrote: »

€1,000 or a month in prison.
Take the month in prison, you'll be out within the day, same as for the TV license.

Get driven to the clink, get a nice cup of tea or coffee, maybe a biccy, and go home afterwards.

Be grand. He's old anyhow so he doesn't need to worry about a record being a bar to employment.

tiger_cub

Happydays2020 wrote: »

I expect Ryanair will bring them back to the High Court in May if numbers are down and the restrictions are still there.

I’m waiting for this myself. The Gov had to concede last summer that travel restrictions were only advisory in nature. If they still have legal standing coming towards end of April I can see another High Court application happening. FR’’s summer schedule starts from 28 March but has already been reduced.

josip

josip wrote: »

€1,000 or a month in prison.
Take the month in prison, you'll be out within the day, same as for the TV license.

Thats not your decision, its the judges and considering the issue at play, the prison service would be under pressure to keep you for something approaching the actual sentence term (minus 25%)

gozunda

tiger_cub wrote: »

I’m waiting for this myself. The Gov had to concede last summer that travel restrictions were only advisory in nature. If they still have legal standing coming towards end of April I can see another High Court application happening. FR’’s summer schedule starts from 28 March but has already been reduced.

Is Ryanair sueing the UK government? As under current UK COVID-19 restrictions, It is now illegal to travel abroad for holidays and other leisure purposes.

I wonder would the law support a family - whose relative flew to a holiday destination, - sueing an airline where that person subsequently caught Covid and died?

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

Is Ryanair sueing the UK government? As under current UK COVID-19 restrictions, It is now illegal to travel abroad for holidays and other leisure purposes.

I wonder would the law support a family - whose relative flew to a holiday destination, - sueing an airline where that person subsequently caught Covid and died?

This is just a bizarre view to take

gozunda

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

This is just a bizarre view to take

Simply a follow on from the logic detailed above of Ryanair sueing the Irish state previously and whether they will try the same again.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/ryanair-loses-high-court-action-over-ireland-s-travel-advice-1.4370292

It will also be interesting to see if they now decide to sue the UK government as they have made their restrictions based on making travel for the purpose of a holidays and other leisure purposes illegal.

And by extension same for personal litigation - is not that unusual. Plenty of big companies have been sued over negligence and travel related death and injury.

Happydays2020

tiger_cub wrote: »

I’m waiting for this myself. The Gov had to concede last summer that travel restrictions were only advisory in nature. If they still have legal standing coming towards end of April I can see another High Court application happening. FR’’s summer schedule starts from 28 March but has already been reduced.

If numbers are considerably down (cases, hospitalisations, ICU) and over 70’s are vaccinated it will be really difficult to maintain that fining regime.

If things keep going as they are we will be below 100 cases a day by the end of March.

RobitTV

Metro - Vaccinated Brits who want to go on holiday will be able to ask their GPs for written proof of their status, a key minister has said. 

Link

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

Simply a follow on from the logic detailed above of Ryanair sueing the Irish state previously and whether they will try the same again.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/ryanair-loses-high-court-action-over-ireland-s-travel-advice-1.4370292

It will also be interesting to see if they now decide to sue the UK government as they have made their restrictions based on making travel for the purpose of a holidays and other leisure purposes illegal.

And by extension same for personal litigation - is not that unusual. Plenty of big companies have been sued over negligence and travel related death and injury.

Hardly. No company has ever been sued because they flew to a place where someone died. You can fly to warzones ffs!

and yes, there are differences between suing a company for negligence and suing a country over a newly created law that restricts your business or personal freedom.

gozunda

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Hardly. No company has ever been sued because they flew to a place where someone died. You can fly to warzones ffs! and yes, there are differences between suing a company for negligence and suing a country over a newly created law that restricts your business or personal freedom.

Nope. Neither is a example of a country having a war comparable to a situation whers a company decides to provide flights in the midst of a pandemic to and from areas of high rates of infection. And btw didn't detail that for any 'difference' - but it will be interesting to see who Ryanair takes a case against now that thd UK has made all holiday and leisure based travel illegal and not an advisory based on their previous litigation.

Tenzor07

Christ, people thinking you can sue an Airline for transporting you to the destination you paid them for.... Now i've heard it all! :rolleyes:
Some people really need to stop drinking their own Koolaid and hit that Log out button for a few days, get some fresh air... my God! :eek:

tiger_cub

gozunda wrote: »

I wonder would the law support a family - whose relative flew to a holiday destination, - sueing an airline where that person subsequently caught Covid and died?

In the same way my family couldn’t sue Dublin Bus if I took the bus to work and caught it and died, or took a taxi to the supermarket and caught it and died, no the law of tort (different to Ryanair challenging the proportionality of regulations) would not support a family in your strange scenario.

If you’re trying to imply they caught it on a flight - everyone boarding a flight has a negative test - essentially absolves an airline of liability short of infected staff going around licking faces or coughing.