Will you travel? [Mod Note in Post #1 - Travel Discussion Only! Megathread]

Red Silurian

gozunda wrote: »

Add to that the fact that the 1% figure is not actually accurate

*

Only need a small number of travel related cases are required to seed a much wider spread of infection. Hence the recent spread of the UK varient here.

No one is against travel being resumed for the future. And yes we could all for with a break. However anyone travelling for holidays or leisure purposes abtoad at this point in time really needs their head examined imjo

https://www.thejournal.ie/factfind-do-we-know-the-rate-of-travel-transmission-5337751-Jan2021/

Well said

Donald Trump

dmcsweeney wrote: »

I assume the rule being flouted at the moment is the 5km restriction? After all, non essential travel to another country in itself isn't in any way illegal?

Yeah you are right. You've spotted the fatal loophole that nobody else has spotted.


If, when stopped, you quote this to the Guard, and if they start to get a bit narky, you can also tell them that you are pregnant freeman of the land and then they have to let you piss in their hat






(5km is applicable to exercise only. Exercise. The law is against leaving your residence without reasonable excuse)

dmcsweeney

gozunda wrote: »

Add to that the fact that the 1% figure is not actually accurate

*

Only a small number of travel related cases are required to seed a much wider spread of infection. Hence the recent spread of the UK varient here.

No one is against travel being resumed for the future. And yes we could all for with a break. However anyone travelling for holidays or leisure purposes abroad at this point in time really needs their head examined imjo

https://www.thejournal.ie/factfind-do-we-know-the-rate-of-travel-transmission-5337751-Jan2021/

I think people would be happily stay put for the moment if there was light at the end of the tunnel, that travel would be allowed to resume in a few months. Instead all we get is the usual picture of Tony or Ronan frowning and telling us all to write off 2021. Give people a target and they'll knuckle down and do the right thing. Instead it's like listening to the late Ian Pasley, no no no.

Micky 32

So lets fast forward to 1 year. Lets say all of Europe ( including ourselves) and other countries are all vaccinated. The vaccines yield the results as hoped.

Will we then be allowed to travel? What do posters on here think will happen? Or do posters on here still think we should stay shut off from the rest of the world for the rest of our lives?

Travel isn’t all about sun holidays. People have families abroad.

Donald Trump

colmtheperson wrote: »

Correct provided you live within 5km of an airport of course

No. The 5km limit for exercise means that if you are out and about within 5km of your house then you can say that you are out for exercise. So being out of your house without reasonable excuse isn't really enforceable within that limit as long as people are prepared to use "exercise" as an excuse.


If you live 4km from the airport, you can go to the carpark, park there, and walk laps of it to your hearts content (assuming you have permission to do so). If the guard stops you on your way, you can tell him what you are up to.


If you go to the airport to fly away, you can lie and say you are going up to do your exercise. Maybe you'd get away with it and maybe you wouldn't. If they question you inside the terminal building as you are lining up to board your plane then you probably won't get away with saying you are on your way to Car park A for a walk

Red Silurian

dmcsweeney wrote: »

I think people would be happily stay put for the moment if there was light at the end of the tunnel, that travel would be allowed to resume in a few months. Instead all we get is the usual picture of Tony or Ronan frowning and telling us all to write off 2021. Give people a target and they'll knuckle down and do the right thing. Instead it's like listening to the late Ian Pasley, no no no.

If the target of every adult being vaccinated by September is reached (still possible I think) then I see no reason for travel of vaccinated people to certain countries, including the popular holiday spots, opening then

Rather than write off 2021 perhaps target an autumn/winner getaway to countries that are doing a good job with virus numbers and vaccinations?

dmcsweeney

Donald Trump wrote: »

No. The 5km limit for exercise means that if you are out and about within 5km of your house then you can say that you are out for exercise. So being out of your house without reasonable excuse isn't really enforceable within that limit as long as people are prepared to use "exercise" as an excuse.


If you live 4km from the airport, you can go to the carpark, park there, and walk laps of it to your hearts content (assuming you have permission to do so). If the guard stops you on your way, you can tell him what you are up to.


If you go to the airport to fly away, you can lie and say you are going up to do your exercise. Maybe you'd get away with it and maybe you wouldn't. If they question you inside the terminal building as you are lining up to board your plane then you probably won't get away with saying you are on your way to Car park A for a walk

Thanks for clarifying. So when travel within a county opens up, or even inter county travel, they'll be no legal impediment to foreign travel.

dmcsweeney

colmtheperson wrote: »

If the target of every adult being vaccinated by September is reached (still possible I think) then I see no reason for travel of vaccinated people to certain countries, including the popular holiday spots, opening then

Rather than write off 2021 perhaps target an autumn/winner getaway to countries that are doing a good job with virus numbers and vaccinations?

Even when the most vulnerable are vaccinated, I couldn't see why travel to countries with similar levels couldn't resume in time for summer. I understand there is still a risk to some people who may not be aware they have an underlying condition etc, but we have to open up at some point.

dmcsweeney

Micky 32 wrote: »

So lets fast forward to 1 year. Lets say all of Europe ( including ourselves) and other countries are all vaccinated. The vaccines yield the results as hoped.

Will we then be allowed to travel? What do posters on here think will happen? Or do posters on here still think we should stay shut off from the rest of the world for the rest of our lives?

Travel isn’t all about sun holidays. People have families abroad.

Good point, there could be someone, somewhere, eating a bat right now and we could be locked down due to a new virus. The treat will be there forever, we need to take sensible precautions, but life must go on. My parents are elderly, and I have family living abroad that haven't been home in over a year. There is always a chance that they may never see them again.

Happydays2020

Micky 32 wrote: »

So lets fast forward to 1 year. Lets say all of Europe ( including ourselves) and other countries are all vaccinated. The vaccines yield the results as hoped.

Will we then be allowed to travel? What do posters on here think will happen? Or do posters on here still think we should stay shut off from the rest of the world for the rest of our lives?

Travel isn’t all about sun holidays. People have families abroad.

But there could be another variant or even a COVID-20 (as Simon Harris might think).

RobitTV

RobitTV wrote: »

Has anyone actually found any good staycation deals? I had a look earlier and it costs a bomb for the average family of four to stay here for a week.

The time you factor in meals for a family of four people and then travel, hotel cost, entertainment, drinks, day trips. We are literally talking about a cost that would make your head spin.

I would not staycation this year, and get gouged. I would stay in the garden and local park and save money to spend in an international location in which the hospitality providers don’t take the p1ss

Red Silurian

dmcsweeney wrote: »

Even when the most vulnerable are vaccinated, I couldn't see why travel to countries with similar levels couldn't resume in time for summer. I understand there is still a risk to some people who may not be aware they have an underlying condition etc, but we have to open up at some point.

Possibly, I'm going worst case scenario but I think if every adult has been offered and most have taken the jab we should have limited international travel allowed

josip

colmtheperson wrote: »

Depends where you go but no different to previous years, you need to be smart to find something good

Can't find it at the moment but last year you could get 2 weeks in a self catering mobile home in Achil Island in July for 1000, which isn't bad if you split it with another family (could be an option this year)

You couldn't pay me enough to share a mobile home with 7 other people, especially some from another family

I'd sooner bivvy for the 2 weeks by myself up the nearest weather lashed mountain.
I'd even have the latrine all to myself and could have 2 fires going for 2 pots at the same time.

We holidayed in Ireland last summer and enjoyed it.
But we only booked only a few days in advance when the forecast was good and took whatever hotel deal we could get.
Picnics and fish and chips helped to keep the food costs down.
I understand not everyone has the flexibility to do this, we're lucky in that respect.

RobitTV

BBC - Holiday giant Tui bets on summer bounce back Link

Travel company Tui has said it expects to run 80% of its normal capacity for this summer, with 2.8 million customers already booked for its holidays.

CEO of Tui Fritz Joussen said - "We should do everything we can to quickly return to basic freedoms and make travel possible again."

"As expected, customers will book their summer holidays much later this year than in normal years. However, demand remains strong, people want to travel - this is shown by the already good number of bookings for the summer."

dmcsweeney

colmtheperson wrote: »

Possibly, I'm going worst case scenario but I think if every adult has been offered and most have taken the jab we should have limited international travel allowed

I'd certainly agree on restrictions for countries that have high cases/new variants for a while, but I think a return to European travel needs to happen early summer, provided their cases are going in the right direction. The big thing is the government/Nphet need to come up with a clear plan to reactivate travel, rather than trying to keep the country locked down.

seamus

SheepsClothing wrote: »

Some amount of drama queens in this country. Being asked not to go abroad on a sun holiday that could potentially undermine the countries vaccination program, is the dictionary definition of a first world problem. Coddled.

"Going to the south of Spain and lying by the pool drinking cocktails is essential for my mental health". Have you ever heard such precious bollox in your life?

I wonder how our grandparents survived when every summer holiday was visiting family in West Cork and still having to do two weeks work.

caveat emptor

Uk getting very strict. I hope people there have factored that in.

"People who try to lie about having been in a red list country can face up to 10 years in prison"

:eek:

Cost of the quarantine will be 1750 pounds. Of course this is the UK but will be interesting to see what form it takes here.

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1359124386570252289?s=20

gozunda

copeyhagen wrote: »

the key word there is potential ffs, catching covid in the supermarket is potentially a risk too.. but both are minescule

Yes you are quite correct. The word 'potential' is in the quote I detailed. Very well spotted btw. Pity though you didn't read the link or what was actually being discussed relative to the flight in question But no matter

Red Silurian

seamus wrote: »

"Going to the south of Spain and lying by the pool drinking cocktails is essential for my mental health". Have you ever heard such precious bollox in your life?

I wonder how our grandparents survived when every summer holiday was visiting family in West Cork and still having to do two weeks work.

Some people are very soft, a far cry from our ancient Celtic ancestors haha

The UK government just announced their mandatory quarantine plans, from Monday PCR tests will need to be taken on days 3 and 10 of self-isolation for anybody coming in from outside of the CTA

Mandatory hotel quarantine added for anybody coming in from a red listed country and fines for trying to fout the rules

They've also suggested this is agreed this with the Irish govt but I haven't seen any confirmation so watch this space

caveat emptor

Just to add anyone quarantining at home or in a hotel will have to have 2 additional tests on day 2 and 8 of that quarantine.

gozunda

colmtheperson wrote: »

Some people are very soft, a far cry from our ancient Celtic ancestors haha

The UK government just announced their mandatory quarantine plans, from Monday PCR tests will need to be taken on days 3 and 10 of self-isolation for anybody coming in from outside of the CTA

Mandatory hotel quarantine added for anybody coming in from a red listed country and fines for trying to fout the rules

They've also suggested this is agreed this with the Irish govt but I haven't seen any confirmation so watch this space

I know I shouldn't but I have laugh at some of the absolute hysterics about the restrictions here on travel..

Other countries approaches to testing make us look like a bunch of softies tbf

For example to enter the Netherlands - you will require not one but two preflight tests

Important passenger information for passengers travelling from Ireland to the Netherlands

From 00:01 January 15, 2021 people travelling to the Netherlands from Ireland must provide proof that they have tested negative for coronavirus following a rapid test (antigen test) (taken within four hours before departure) in addition to a negative COVID-19 PCR test taken within 72 hours prior to arrival in the Netherlands. As a result, passengers should add at least one hour onto their travelling time.

Passengers must provide:

1. proof of a negative result from a rapid test/antigen test (taken within four hours before departure)

2. proof of a negative result from a PCR test (taken within 72 hours prior to arrival in the Netherlands)

3. Both negative test results will need to be presented before boarding the plane

And then you must self-quarantine for 10 days upon arriving in the Netherlands. You can get tested again on day 5 after your arrival. If the result is negative you can end your self-quarantine. 

https://www.government.nl/topics/coronavirus-covid-19/visiting-the-netherlands-from-abroad/mandatory-negative-test-results-and-declaration/requirements-rapid-test-result

There is a real need for some perspective here tbh.

copeyhagen

gozunda wrote: »

Yes you are quite correct. The word 'potential' is in the quote I detailed. Very well spotted btw. Pity though you didn't read the link or what was actually being discussed relative to the flight in question But no matter

we have all seen the bloody article a hundred times at this stage.

today fm just said anyone coming back into the Country from the EU with a negative test doesnt have to quarentine.

is that correct yeah? obviously it makes sense as you have proven you have tested negative.

caveat emptor

With the up to 10 years in prison deterrent they are trying to stop the Dublin dodge I guess.
He mentioned he spoke to Stephen Donnelly in the morning and they'll start sharing passenger details to prevent it.

Dr. Em

copeyhagen wrote: »

we have all seen the bloody article a hundred times at this stage.

today fm just said anyone coming back into the Country from the EU with a negative test doesnt have to quarentine.

is that correct yeah? obviously it makes sense as you have proven you have tested negative.

That is not true.



From the Gov.ie website:
https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/b4020-travelling-to-ireland-during-the-covid-19-pandemic/
Quarantine requirements



A legal requirement to quarantine has been introduced for all travellers (except if your journey originates in Northern Ireland) – with very limited exceptions.


This applies for all arrivals from 4 February 2021:

• 14-day quarantine period must be undertaken at the address specified on the Passenger Locator Form
• persons who travel from another country to Ireland, and arrive via Northern Ireland, must also observe the mandatory quarantine regime

If you do not fulfil the legal requirement for mandatory quarantine you are committing an offence, and can be fined up to €2,500 or get a prison sentence of up to 6 months, or both.


You may only leave your place of residence during the quarantine period for unavoidable reasons of an emergency nature to protect a person’s health or welfare, or to leave the State.


You may leave to take a RT-PCR test no less than 5 days after your arrival – if you receive written confirmation that the result of this test is negative/ ‘not detected’ your period of quarantine can end.


You must retain the written confirmation of your test result for at least 14 days.


If your journey began in South Africa or Brazil you must complete the full 14 days of quarantine – regardless of whether you have a negative test result.

josip

seamus wrote: »

"Going to the south of Spain and lying by the pool drinking cocktails is essential for my mental health". Have you ever heard such precious bollox in your life?

I wonder how our grandparents survived when every summer holiday was visiting family in West Cork and still having to do two weeks work.

Your grandparents didn't know how well they had it Seamus, TWO weeks holidays and got to travel.
My grandfather got a week off and the only travelling he did was around the half acre giving the sceach hedge its annual clip.

On the "the current generation are spoiled whingers" topic, my mother who lived through the Emergency and the hard years afterwards, says that while they were difficult and tough years with shortages, there was never the same feeling of confinement that she and the rest of us have been experiencing for the last 12 months. She says that in some ways things are harder now than then.

She is one of the most independent people you can meet, she's been widowed for over 30 years and lives on her own in the countryside.
Been very deaf since her 30s, so it's not that she'd be nattering for hours with people.
Never drove, so so her range was the few miles into town.
Only 2 children, so the house was never bustling.
Highlight of the week would have been going into town and seeing someone she knew. Just a "hello, how are you?" and keep going, would have been enough to make her happy for the day.

She didn't need much social interaction, but she really misses the little she had.
And she thinks it's similar for the rest of us. We're missing to various degrees our social interactions, and we're all handling it and reacting to it differently.
I wouldn't travel now, but I don't know what everyone else's circumstances are and what they're personally going through.
I don't think it's right to belittle people who are travelling when we don't know their personal situations.

dmcsweeney

Dr. Em wrote: »

You may leave to take a RT-PCR test no less than 5 days after your arrival – if you receive written confirmation that the result of this test is negative/ ‘not detected’ your period of quarantine can end.

So if you opt for a second test you only have to self quarantine for 5 days. That's easily done.

faceman

Donald Trump wrote: »

Coping is how you manage with something. Nobody sets a benchmark for coping. NPHET and politicians set the restrictions and then it is up to you to manage. You can't be expecting to be spoon-fed a definition or being hand-held by NPHET to be told whether or not they are coping.

You're missing my point. Morally, a benchmark is being set by society and in some cases, by the mob. Its dangerous to say the least. This has always been at the core of mental health issues in Ireland.

wrote:

As for the mental health point, there are some amount of chancers abusing that and jumping on the backs of people who have actual issues. How much more difficult is it to provide genuine services for people with real issues when you suddenly have thousands of eejits confusing a little tantrum with "mental health" and demanding that they receive the attention that the genuine cases should be getting

Agreed. Its impossible to quantify though because we dont have the mental health support mechanisms in place in Ireland to help. It seems the only approach is one of assumption of negative intention with people. If appropriate support was in there, we wouldn't have these issues now.

Internationally it is recognised that we are sitting on a mental health time bomb. Ive seen numerous articles on it in other international media but very little in ireland. (Not that I read every newspaper.)

wrote:

Well what I don't understand then is that your posts here come across as pro-travel and anti-restrictions, yet you know that other countries don't really want Irish people coming because of the way that things are here currently.



Everyone here should be familiar with the way we looked across the water (and up North) at the start of this and were aghast at how people over there (politicians included) were behaving and didn't want them coming over there.

While most posters are either "open the airports" or "close the airports", I'm in-between. International travel is part of European life and cant just be shut down. Therefore we need to have appropriate controls in place, complimented by controls in other areas of transmission.

At present non essential travel should be curtailed in countries where transmission is not under control, including Ireland. (However planes shouldn't be grounded.) I agree with the Iceland model. Arrive with negative test, quarantine at home (or if a tourist in approved quarantine accommodation of your choice). If you test negatively again on day 5, you're free to go. Iceland performs checks to make sure you quarantine. You are permitted to solo exercise during quarantine too. During times of low rates (such as last summer etc), holidays should be permitted.

The other aspect is transmission controls domestically. Ireland does not meet this at all. We do not monitor, enforce or control close contact isolation or confirmed cases isolation. This is farcical

Dr. Em

dmcsweeney wrote: »

So if you opt for a second test you only have to self quarantine for 5 days. That's easily done.

Yes, if you have the money to spare and if it is negative, you can stop quarantining when the results are confirmed.

Nermal

seamus wrote: »

I wonder how our grandparents survived when every summer holiday was visiting family in West Cork and still having to do two weeks work.

colmtheperson wrote: »

Some people are very soft, a far cry from our ancient Celtic ancestors haha

I guess we're lucky our Celtic ancestors occasionally left their caves in the face of the risk of death from infection from minor scratches.

Absolutely comical, this idea that one is taking the 'brave' choice by huddling indoors.

Keep on, your sacrifice is inspiring!

Dr. Em

faceman wrote: »

At present non essential travel should be curtailed in countries where transmission is not under control, including Ireland. (However planes shouldn't be grounded.) I agree with the Iceland model. Arrive with negative test, quarantine at home (or if a tourist in approved quarantine accommodation of your choice). If you test negatively again on day 5, you're free to go. Iceland performs checks to make sure you quarantine. You are permitted to solo exercise during quarantine too. During times of low rates (such as last summer etc), holidays should be permitted.

This is the same model that is now in effect here.