Will you travel? [Mod Note in Post #1 - Travel Discussion Only! Megathread]

Dr. Em

Gael23 wrote: »

How long do you think that will take?

When this map goes mostly orange and green: https://reopen.europa.eu/en


If cases here continue to fall and stay low, some countries might lift restrictions on Irish residents in late June, depending on the vaccine rollout. I wouldn't be confident enough to plan any trips, but if I had to bet at random when it would be easier to do so, I would pick October or November. I'm practicing positive pessimism!

Happydays2020

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Several thousand so far.

Indeed extraordinary how that develop.

tom1ie

Micky 32 wrote: »

For how many years?

I dunno. It’s a healthy compromise. Allows people to go on holiday and stops the virus and it’s variants coming into the country. Plus it gives Irish hotels a boost.
What’s not to like?

Wallander

A lot of grim news out there today for anyone hoping to travel relatively soon, but amid the gloom I see a few reasons this could be the high-water mark of the travel hysteria:

-Infection rates continue to decrease across Europe
-Infection rates continues to decrease across the world. There are signs India has reached herd immunity, S Africa and Brazil presumably not too far behind...
-Less infection means less chance of variants
-There will be a big push from Southern Europe to allow the vaccinated, and possibly others, to travel within EU should the spring/early summer see low infections across Europe
-It is much easier for the UK and Irish government to sing to the rooftops about mandatory quarantine before they've started actually running it. Systems in New Zealand and Australia are well supported by wealthy citizens using it to return home to Covid-free countries, it's not clear grouping together poorer migrants singled out by their country of origin and possibly grannies returning from the Canaries will run quite as smoothly.

tom1ie

Wallander wrote: »

A lot of grim news out there today for anyone hoping to travel relatively soon, but amid the gloom I see a few reasons this could be the high-water mark of the travel hysteria:

-Infection rates continue to decrease across Europe
-Infection rates continues to decrease across the world. There are signs India has reached herd immunity, S Africa and Brazil presumably not too far behind...
-Less infection means less chance of variants
-There will be a big push from Southern Europe to allow the vaccinated, and possibly others, to travel within EU should the spring/early summer see low infections across Europe
-It is much easier for the UK and Irish government to sing to the rooftops about mandatory quarantine before they've started actually running it. Systems in New Zealand and Australia are well supported by wealthy citizens using it to return home to Covid-free countries, it's not clear grouping together poorer migrants singled out by their country of origin and possibly grannies returning from the Canaries will run quite as smoothly.

I don’t suppose you could post any links that backup the claim India has reached 70% or so of its citizens being infected/vaccinated?

tom1ie

Wallander wrote: »

A lot of grim news out there today for anyone hoping to travel relatively soon, but amid the gloom I see a few reasons this could be the high-water mark of the travel hysteria:

-Infection rates continue to decrease across Europe
-Infection rates continues to decrease across the world. There are signs India has reached herd immunity, S Africa and Brazil presumably not too far behind...
-Less infection means less chance of variants
-There will be a big push from Southern Europe to allow the vaccinated, and possibly others, to travel within EU should the spring/early summer see low infections across Europe
-It is much easier for the UK and Irish government to sing to the rooftops about mandatory quarantine before they've started actually running it. Systems in New Zealand and Australia are well supported by wealthy citizens using it to return home to Covid-free countries, it's not clear grouping together poorer migrants singled out by their country of origin and possibly grannies returning from the Canaries will run quite as smoothly.

People who can’t afford to quarantine at their own expense won’t be able to go on foreign holidays unfortunately, if the quarantining measures are brought in.

Wallander

1. tom1ie wrote: »

   I don’t suppose you could post any links that backup the claim India has reached 70% or so of its citizens being infected/vaccinated?

yep - interesting article in the FT about it in the past week:


https://www.ft.com/content/07988f31-d511-4af4-8b78-03ecaf2d4df7?list=intlhomepage


No certainty about it, but cases are dropping regularly now without tighter restrictions. Given population density and great poverty there, realistic to think lockdown was less effective therefore country passing through the viral cycle quicker

tom1ie

Wallander wrote: »

yep - interesting article in the FT about it in the past week:


https://www.ft.com/content/07988f31-d511-4af4-8b78-03ecaf2d4df7?list=intlhomepage


No certainty about it, but cases are dropping regularly now without tighter restrictions. Given population density and great poverty there, realistic to think lockdown was less effective therefore country passing through the viral cycle quicker

Ah paywall. I’ll see can I find it anywhere else.

tom1ie

Wallander wrote: »

yep - interesting article in the FT about it in the past week:


https://www.ft.com/content/07988f31-d511-4af4-8b78-03ecaf2d4df7?list=intlhomepage


No certainty about it, but cases are dropping regularly now without tighter restrictions. Given population density and great poverty there, realistic to think lockdown was less effective therefore country passing through the viral cycle quicker

I found this:
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/world/asia-pacific/india-s-tumbling-covid-cases-raises-question-is-the-pandemic-burning-itself-out-1.4472406%3fmode=amp

Very interesting.
I’d like to see what the experts are saying on this like Michael olsterholm etc.

Father Hernandez

tom1ie wrote: »

I dunno. It’s a healthy compromise. Allows people to go on holiday and stops the virus and it’s variants coming into the country. Plus it gives Irish hotels a boost.
What’s not to like?

If someone has to travel abroad for an essential reason, why should they have to pay £1,750 for a 2 week quarantine in a hotel?

They're being punished for going abroad for an essential reason much like people going cross county or outside their 5km for the same reason.

lukas8888

gozunda wrote: »

What are you on about? Nowhere was it stated it was the 'bees knees'. Maybe take a little time out there pal cos that was not anything to do with the comment made.

Your suggestion that the Netherlands regulations were so much better and tougher than our own, because they added in a useless antigen test is what I was referring to. As for taking time out I think you have the pot and kettle mixed up. Your travel obsession as is evident by your enormous amount of posts suggests that I'm not the one that needs a break pal.

RobitTV

Irish Times Exclusive - Leo Varadkar: ‘I want to make sure this pandemic is a lost year or so, not a lost decade’ :pac:

Key points:

- Varadkar: There will be some form of restrictions at least until the end of the year if not well into next year

- "There will be a concern about a fourth wave of some sort next winter and there will be huge caution about allowing mass gatherings until we get through another winter. That’s a hard message to sell and not what people want to hear but I think it’s better to be honest about these things.”

- He says it will be “some time next year” before we will see full houses again in Croke Park or the Aviva stadium.

- “My best guess is that we’ll have a relatively normal summer in that the shops will be open, personal services will be open and domestic tourism will be a real possibility. And potentially outdoor gatherings of 10 to 15 people, maybe even 50 but nothing beyond that.

Irish Times

gozunda

lukas8888 wrote: »

Your suggestion that the Netherlands regulations were so much better and tougher than our own, because they added in a useless antigen test is what I was referring to. As for taking time out I think you have the pot and kettle mixed up. Your travel obsession as is evident by your enormous amount of posts suggests that I'm not the one that needs a break pal.

Again incorrect there my friend. The Netherlands were given as an example of their system being more onerous than ours despite the much complaining given about the Irish system. Not "better" or the "bees knees" or whatever you came up with. This was already explained to you by another poster

And jeez leave out the personal ****e. As said previously maybe take some time out from taking the wrong end of the stick :rolleyes:

lukas8888

gozunda wrote: »

Again incorrect again there my friend. The Netherlands were given as an example of their system being more onerous than ours despite the much complaining given about the Irish system. Not "better" or the "bees knees" or whatever you came up with. This was already explained to you by another posterhttps://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=116221742&postcount=9450

And jeez leave out the personal ****e. As said previously maybe take some time out from taking the wrong end of the stick :rolleyes:

The only extra addition to our system is the antigen test.,i would not describe it as more onerous just one more tiny inconvenience..

Gael23

Will the slip of paper you get when you receive the vaccine be acceptable for travel or will something more elaborate be needed?

gozunda

lukas8888 wrote: »

The only extra addition to our system is the antigen test.,i would not describe it as more onerous just one more tiny inconvenience..

Read the link above to the other posters comment on why it is more onerous.

ShineOn7

Good luck with them trying to keep vaccinated people from going to countries with low case numbers in September. There'll be uproar

Especially after they fcuked up with our airports so badly and let everyone in

Advice against non-essential travel likely to stay into 2022, warns Tánaiste

Speaking on Today FM’s The Last Word, Mr Varadkar said: “The strong advice from Government at the moment and for a very long time has been to avoid non-essential travel abroad and I think that advice will most likely stay in place for the duration of the year if not into next year, unless we get to the point where we can develop reliable vaccine passports.”

However, when questioned about the vaccine passports, the Tánaiste said he shouldn’t have used that term because “the science doesn’t stand up for that at the moment”.

Full article here https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/advice-against-non-essential-travel-likely-to-stay-into-2022-warns-tanaiste-40072681.html

PTH2009

it's always nice to get away from the house for a few days/weeks but why would ya bother if the restrictions are still in place. No pub crawls, limited hotel dining options/hours, museums and attractions heavily restricted and simply just a miserable experience

Coybig_

It is going to take other countries to drag us out of this mess. Because our own government are the most cowardly, inept bunch of idiots imaginable.

Things like this, can only be a positive.

https://www.travelinglifestyle.net/israel-and-greece-planning-to-open-a-travel-corridor-for-vaccinated-travelers/

We may be in a situation much later in the year where a similar corridors open elsewhere, and obviously any corridor which the UK can avail of is golden for us.

ShineOn7

Coybig_ wrote: »

Things like this, can only be a positive.

https://www.travelinglifestyle.net/israel-and-greece-planning-to-open-a-travel-corridor-for-vaccinated-travelers/

The very, very play it safe Malaysia are doing the same with Bali too

Malaysia have done an impeccable job to date, despite recent spikes. So they're not doing this without a lot of thought

Gael23

I think there will need to be some coordination at EU Level on this.

wcooba

Gael23 wrote: »

I think there will need to be some coordination at EU Level on this.

Will have too. A lot of people seem to forget it's not just about "holidays". Roughly 5% of this country's population are other EU nationals. While temporary strict measures have it's merit, they should be only applicable in "direct threat" scenario.
I don't see how sealing the country for a year will be politically acceptable. It would completely undermine one of the cornerstones of the EU.

Dr. Em

Dr. Em wrote: »

Intra-EU travel will not be banned because it can be challenged based on freedom of movement rights. (Note this no longer includes the UK.)

That only applies to moving, not holidays and the agreement specifically allows for borders to be closed.

Also, Ireland as has been pointed out before, does not have an open border as we are not within schengen.

Dr. Em

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

That only applies to moving, not holidays and the agreement specifically allows for borders to be closed.

Also, Ireland as has been pointed out before, does not have an open border as we are not within schengen.

You seem to have misunderstood my post. I was not referring to holiday travel nor to border checks. I was referring to banning essential travel, the possibility of which had been raised earlier in the thread. Essential travel will not be banned within the EU because it would be a breach of of the right to work, study and live in other EU countries. Ireland ascribes to freedom of movement. This has nothing to do with the Schengen Zone. Ireland can implement border checks, but it cannot suspend the right of other EU citizens to work, study and live in Ireland, which means that essential travel cannot be banned outright without triggering an outcry and legal challenges.

Happydays2020

Dr. Em wrote: »

You seem to have misunderstood my post. I was not referring to holiday travel nor to border checks. I was referring to banning essential travel, the possibility of which had been raised earlier in the thread. Essential travel will not be banned within the EU because it would be a breach of of the right to work, study and live in other EU countries. Ireland ascribes to freedom of movement. This has nothing to do with the Schengen Zone. Ireland can implement border checks, but it cannot suspend the right of other EU citizens to work, study and live in Ireland, which means that essential travel cannot be banned outright without triggering an outcry and legal challenges.

Travel bans generally are getting a disproportionate amount of attention particularly in respect to EU travel. Politicians are making up policy based on Joe Duffy and his listeners.

caveat emptor

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Travel bans generally are getting a disproportionate amount of attention particularly in respect to EU travel. Politicians are making up policy based on Joe Duffy and his listeners.

Do you really believe this? Would it not be to do with the S.A variant which has shown to reduce the effect of antibodies from vaccines and from prior infection thus making herd immunity not likely?

If that starts taking off which it looks as though it is makes the vaccine rollout much more difficult and immunity passports kinda pointless in the short term.

Happydays2020

caveat emptor wrote: »

Do you really believe this? Would it not be to do with the S.A variant which has shown to reduce the effect of antibodies from vaccines and from prior infection thus making herd immunity not likely?

If that starts taking off which it looks as though it is makes the vaccine rollout much more difficult and immunity passports kinda pointless in the short term.

Yes I do believe the attention on this is disproportionate and will have lasting damage. I also have said that I think quarantine from known variant areas such as South Africa is proportionate. And I think that we will have restrictions in place until end summer and we will not see packed pubs, nightclubs and concerts etc until 2022.

This debate is a smokescreen to get politicians and people off the hook for December.

I think policing resources should be focused on crime, and if they must help COVID response on the most risky behaviour i.e private indoor gatherings. Public messaging needs to focus on this most riskiest of behaviour.

faceman

Hysteria over travel had reached a new high.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-british-expats-using-short-dublin-stays-to-get-around-far-east-travel-bans-1.4480475

I fail to see an issue with what is being highlighted here. Is Ireland a holiday destination for people looking to get out for walks?

Travel to some Asia countries is not permitted if you’ve been in the U.K. for 2 weeks beforehand. So what rule is being broken?

caveat emptor

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Yes I do believe the attention on this is disproportionate and will have lasting damage. I also have said that I think quarantine from known variant areas such as South Africa is proportionate. And I think that we will have restrictions in place until end summer and we will not see packed pubs, nightclubs and concerts etc until 2022.

This debate is a smokescreen to get politicians and people off the hook for December.

I think policing resources should be focused on crime, and if they must help COVID response on the most risky behaviour i.e private indoor gatherings. Public messaging needs to focus on this most riskiest of behaviour.

Ok fair enough. But there's a massive outbreak of the S.A in Tyrol in Austria. Should people travelling from there be made to quarantine? Also there's convergent evolution of the same mutations which are thought to cause the issues with antibodies. The Bristol one is the latest of those.

I'm not sure whack a mole quarantine will work.
Agree with the rest of your post though.

I'd add schools reopening is going to be more difficult this time around if the evidence out of Italy and Israel is correct. Will be very tricky while most of population not vaccinated with efficacious vaccines.

https://twitter.com/bmj_latest/status/1359120766856531973?s=20

dmcsweeney

faceman wrote: »

Hysteria over travel had reached a new high.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-british-expats-using-short-dublin-stays-to-get-around-far-east-travel-bans-1.4480475

I fail to see an issue with what is being highlighted here. Is Ireland a holiday destination for people looking to get out for walks?

Travel to some Asia countries is not permitted if you’ve been in the U.K. for 2 weeks beforehand. So what rule is being broken?

That probably accounts for about 4 people! The media are really scratching about for news this morning.