Will you travel? [Mod Note in Post #1 - Travel Discussion Only! Megathread]

acequion

The last lot were actually doing things towards the end. They seemed to listen to public demands to accelerate the reopening.

This lot seem far too overcautious and indecisive. Great :rolleyes: Another 4+ years of them to look forward to! :mad:

ilovesmybrick

stephenjmcd wrote: »

The communication around it has been woeful

This is what's most frustrating. On the original announcement by Varadkar that on the 9th of July quarantine would be restricted for selected countries I tentatively booked flights home to see my folks, aware that these plans could change. That's fine.

However, we've had over a week of TD's from the back arse of nowhere complaining about no ministries for every single parish in the country, every person with a whiff of a medical qualification on the radio gving their two cents, and not a single announcement by a government minister. Instead all the information we have comes from leaks and quiet words in the back of Leinster house.

I know there is a settling in period for a new government, but a lot of the senior guys from the last administration are still in cabinet so you would presume they're could be at least a small bit of continuity.

Micky 32

lawrencesummers wrote: »

I reckon we had a choice.

Limit travel to and from insecure areas and keep cases down here.

Don’t limit travel and rick cases occurring here.

The government has so far gone for the second option, so I think it’s highly likely that we will have another lockdown in the future, but only for smaller geographic areas.

Take a town like Gorey, or Fermoy, or Gort, if cases spike in places like that it could be facing its own localised lockdown, starting back at the beginning of the roadMap but with increased testing and tracing in the local area. With dedicated resources to cater for the specific area. It’s happened in Leicester and parts of Asia already.

It brings it’s one problem, things can be closed in one town and open in the next.

I don’t think we will see a nationwide lockdown again, just localized ones. The problem is if cases spike in a city like Dublin it will be a logistical nightmare locking down parts of it.

To me it seems like the government want people to travel and yet at the same time they don’t. They know people have families abroad. I think their main tactic is to keep travel numbers low for now. Doing that reduces risk and keeps airlines and tourism ticking over somewhat. I could be wrong but that’s the way it appears especially with their confusing stance on it with only advisory quarantine and avoiding clarity.

They seem to be leaving it to us to judge for ourselves.

lawrencesummers

Micky 32 wrote: »

To me it seems like the government want people to travel and yet at the same time they don’t. They know people have families abroad. I think their main tactic is to keep travel numbers low for now. Doing that reduces risk and keeps airlines and tourism ticking over somewhat. I could be wrong but that’s the way it appears especially with their confusing stance on it with only advisory quarantine and avoiding clarity.

They seem to be leaving it to us to judge for ourselves.

I think there has been an element of that all along, some will comply strictly and others will push the limits of it, then others will blatantly ignore what’s said that’s a given really.

They say 5km and know people will take it to 10km
They say 20 and know people will take it to 40Km
1.5 hours in the pub and people will stay 3

They need travel to resume somewhat so that airlines can have revenue to process refunds, they need tourism to come back some bit, and don’t want to be bailing out airlines.

Restrictions have to come off gradually to see where (if at all) cases spike, If we see an increase in cases in 10-14 days then pubs might need rethinking.

The problem I have is the inevitability of infection coming in from the USA and some other hotspots has no preventative or control Measures in place.

acequion

Micky 32 wrote: »

To me it seems like the government want people to travel and yet at the same time they don’t. They know people have families abroad. I think their main tactic is to keep travel numbers low for now. Doing that reduces risk and keeps airlines and tourism ticking over somewhat. I could be wrong but that’s the way it appears especially with their confusing stance on it with only advisory quarantine and avoiding clarity.

They seem to be leaving it to us to judge for ourselves.

Agree completely Micky32. And while I'd prefer to use my own judgement rather than be dictated to by the crowd in Leinster House, the problem for most people is the 14 day quarantine.

Even where people can largely comply it's still a major inconvenience because you can't plan for 14 days after return. It's 14 days of limbo. And it's an even bigger hassle on those who can't WFH because they can't go back to work and some are being forced to go without pay. Extremely punitive on law abiding citizens who've abided by all laws to now and just want a break.

And in the meantime the rest of Europe bans flights from the hotspots but permits their citizens to travel normally.

We do the exact opposite!

bladespin

acequion wrote: »

Extremely punitive on law abiding citizens who've abided by all laws to now and just want a break.

And in the meantime the rest of Europe bans flights from the hotspots but permits their citizens to travel normally.

We do the exact opposite!

The real issue is that it isn’t a law at all, just a recommendation, if they got of the fence and decided one way or the other it wouldn’t be an issue.

theoldbreed

So I just read they are not releasing the 'green list' until July 20th now. I feel they will just keep pushing it out until summer is practically over. People will get sick and tired and just go on their booked holidays anyway. The lack of confident decision making and leadership is the problem here. If they said no travel and that's it well at least it would be a concrete decision and no dithering about. Very frustrating.

bladespin

theoldbreed wrote: »

So I just read they are not releasing the 'green list' until July 20th now. I feel they will just keep pushing it out until summer is practically over. People will get sick and tired and just go on their booked holidays anyway. The lack of confident decision making and leadership is the problem here. If they said no travel and that's it well at least it would be a concrete decision and no dithering about. Very frustrating.

I’m also wondering if the Leinster house gang will then jet off while the rest have forsaken a foreign holiday?

ninebeanrows

If the media reports are true, this government is really showing itself to be spineless and indecisive.

There is absolutely no leadership in this country at the moment, pretty much a power-vacuum.

It is everyone for themselves, hopefully people will be responsible.

The fact the government is not allowing quarantine free travel to countries with less COVID then here is nonsensical in the extreme.

They have flown one hundred kites in the last week and it seems to have come back inconclusive, it seems they are pandering to social media and curtain twitchers with their Gardai operation on the pubs last night and the dithering over travel.

tringle

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

I'm going to suggest something, if you read an article and the refer to the 'mandatory' isolation when we know that's not true, stop reading.

It's not flexible either, they are entitled to the holiday. That can't be changed. Covid payments, if your company remains closed then you can claim the payment. They never said you needed to stay here, just be available and again, the quarantine is recommended, not required

The department can't decide what holiday counts and which doesn't, they have tried that before. You declare yourself on holiday, you need not tell them where.

They can and they have. Each year you are entitled to 12 days paid holiday while on social welfare. You can holiday in Ireland now and get paid but if you go abroad you will not get paid for the holiday time or two weeks quarantine when you come back as technically you are not available to work. People have been stopped by inspectors at ports.

pc7

Micky 32 wrote: »

They seem to be leaving it to us to judge for ourselves.

Or be judged!! We had hoped to use a flight that hasn’t been cancelled, but our families would have a break down and I know neither Granny would be happy! So just going to leave it.

MickeyLeari

pc7 wrote: »

Or be judged!! We had hoped to use a flight that hasn’t been cancelled, but our families would have a break down and I know neither Granny would be happy! So just going to leave it.

Not an easy situation to be in.

acequion

bladespin wrote: »

The real issue is that it isn’t a law at all, just a recommendation, if they got of the fence and decided one way or the other it wouldn’t be an issue.

But what can they decide? Go all gung ho and legally enforce the quarantine while the rest of Europe merrily fly around the place and salvage some tourism? Can't see them going that far!

So the other alternative is the logical one. Remove the quarantine,respect people's right to freedom of movement and trust people's sense of self responsibility. We would hope that option would be chosen and it was very much looking like it in the last days of the last Govt.

In the absence of a decision the best hope is that they leave it as it is, a loose quarantine but that really is not fair on people. Plus local disapproval which certainly wouldn't bother me but will bother many as can be seen from the post above mine.

bladespin

acequion wrote: »

But what can they decide? Go all gung ho and legally enforce the quarantine while the rest of Europe merrily fly around the place and salvage some tourism? Can't see them going that far!

So the other alternative is the logical one. Remove the quarantine,respect people's right to freedom of movement and trust people's sense of self responsibility. We would hope that option would be chosen and it was very much looking like it in the last days of the last Govt.

In the absence of a decision the best hope is that they leave it as it is, a loose quarantine but that really is not fair on people. Plus local disapproval which certainly wouldn't bother me but will bother many as can be seen from the post above mine.

That’s my point, you have some travelling others vilifying them (for doing nothing wrong), all because of wishy washy government.

They have hung those who bought holidays early in the year out to dry, shocking leadership (or lack of). Now they’re sitting on the fence (again).

Spanish Eyes

Am very disappointed in the new Administration. The previous one was clear in its communication and made decisions to open up business and movement within the country while it could.

It's not as if the new Government had to respond to Covid on day one, they knew for months what was involved, and what they had to decide. We haven't (well I haven't) heard one word from MM's mouth since day one. That is not leadership, but getting a minister to man the parish pump was obviously far more important.

I'm very willing to give the coalition a chance, but these are not ordinary times. Leadership is required as is clarity of message. I hope FF are not going back to their old tricks of nod, wink, and obfuscation. People are getting fed up I think.

faceman

Trip update. Made it to my destination in Spain. (And no I’m not here on holiday.)

Social distancing was marked for boarding the Ryanair flight but obviously not enough marks so after a certain point people queued with no social distancing.

I didn’t arrive early but no one was queuing. I suspect it’s not allowed until aircraft is ready for boarding.

Flight was 90% full. Everyone wore a mask but again some people need to be educated on how to wear one.

Disembarking was like pre-Covid. No system. Everyone up at the same time. Ridiculous.

Mood changed in the Spanish airport. No messing about. You must have your nose and mouth covered. You can be fined if you’re not wearing them properly. Airport was quiet. Health stations are set up to take your temperature and collect your locator form. There was no queue for it but if it was peak summer in the good old days it would be a lengthy line as it’s a 2 step process. (Scan barcode and someone else monitors your temp as you walk passed a machine. Children have to be manually checked)

I’m getting a lift from my neighbour. We both are wearing masks in his car. It’s illegal to not wear masks if you’re in a car with someone from a different household.

My neighbour is from the U.K. originally and works for a travel company. He told he has already told his boss he won’t handle incoming British tourists in person out of fears of the virus. His boss is ok with that.

Compared to Ireland, there’s no messing about here. The perception of feeling safer in Spain is definitely a thing.

Spanish Eyes

faceman wrote: »

Trip update. Made it to my destination in Spain. (And no I’m not here on holiday.)

Social distancing was marked for boarding the Ryanair flight but obviously not enough marks so after a certain point people queued with no social distancing.

I didn’t arrive early but no one was queuing. I suspect it’s not allowed until aircraft is ready for boarding.

Flight was 90% full. Everyone wore a mask but again some people need to be educated on how to wear one.

Disembarking was like pre-Covid. No system. Everyone up at the same time. Ridiculous.

Mood changed in the Spanish airport. No messing about. You must have your nose and mouth covered. You can be fined if you’re not wearing them properly. Airport was quiet. Health stations are set up to take your temperature and collect your locator form. There was no queue for it but if it was peak summer in the good old days it would be a lengthy line as it’s a 2 step process. (Scan barcode and someone else monitors your temp as you walk passed a machine. Children have to be manually checked)

I’m getting a lift from my neighbour. We both are wearing masks in his car. It’s illegal to not wear masks if you’re in a car with someone from a different household.

My neighbour is from the U.K. originally and works for a travel company. He told he has already told his boss he won’t handle incoming British tourists in person out of fears of the virus. His boss is ok with that.

Compared to Ireland, there’s no messing about here. The perception of feeling safer in Spain is definitely a thing.

The bunching up in the boarding Queue together with the usual free for all on disembarking would concern me greatly. I would have thought DAA would monitor this aspect, at least in the departure area anyway.

Good to hear the Spanish side is much more pro active, but that's on arrival, I wonder what the departure situation will be like.

Hope the break goes well, and thanks for the information on the ground.

54and56

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

The bunching up in the boarding Queue together with the usual free for all on disembarking would concern me greatly.

And it should be so easy to deal with.

Captain/Head Flight Attendant just before landing: "When we land please stay seated until your row number is called".

Once plane is taxied and doors open. "Row one, please disembark"

Once those 6 people have left the plane "Row two, please disembark" and so on.

Yes it'd take a bit longer but so what???

Damiencm

54and56 wrote:

Yes it'd take a bit longer but so what???

Logically it shouldn't take any longer at all, not more than a few minutes at most

Spanish Eyes

54and56 wrote: »

And it should be so easy to deal with.

Captain/Head Flight Attendant just before landing: "When we land please stay seated until your row number is called".

Once plane is taxied and doors open. "Row one, please disembark"

Once those 6 people have left the plane "Row two, please disembark" and so on.

Yes it'd take a bit longer but so what???

I thought that was the way it was to be handled both at boarding and disembarkation, but obviously no one cares in Ryanair anyway. Social distancing and mask wearing are the cornerstones of safety of travel during Covid. But anyway at certain airports no matter how orderly passengers leave the plane they have to crowd onto a bus on the apron to get to the terminal anyway.

I'd still be a bit cautious, some are not, everyone is different.

Not happy yet!

I wonder how AL is doing it?

The_Brood

Spain going into lockdown again over increase in cases.

I honestly don't know what to do. Every choice is abysmal.

If you fly out for a holiday and get sick in a foreign country, or borders get closed, or suddenly quarantine rules get enforced and then you can't get to work if you have to etc. etc. obviously will be a complete nightmare mess, and absolutely no one can tell you what the chances of that happening are - but clearly they are not very small. A "green list" of countries sadly means little when the situations change all the time and out of nowhere.

And if you stay here all "summer" your mental health is going to be absolutely annihilated, if it already isn't, due to the weather. For me at least what is outside during "summer" is just the darkest corners of depression imaginable. The joy of everything has been sucked out. No escape from it.

Hell at every corner.

Plumbthedepths

The_Brood wrote: »

Spain going into lockdown again over increase in cases.

I honestly don't know what to do. Every choice is abysmal.

If you fly out for a holiday and get sick in a foreign country, or borders get closed, or suddenly quarantine rules get enforced and then you can't get to work if you have to etc. etc. obviously will be a complete nightmare mess, and absolutely no one can tell you what the chances of that happening are - but clearly they are not very small. A "green list" of countries sadly means little when the situations change all the time and out of nowhere.

And if you stay here all "summer" your mental health is going to be absolutely annihilated, if it already isn't, due to the weather. For me at least what is outside during "summer" is just the darkest corners of depression imaginable. The joy of everything has been sucked out. No escape from it.

Hell at every corner.

Spain hasn't gone into lockdown, a part of Catalonia has.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-spain-puts-200-000-people-in-catalonia-back-into-lockdown-as-cases-rise-12020938

Damiencm

The_Brood wrote:

Spain going into lockdown again over increase in cases.

No it's not.

One reasonably small region in the north east of Spain is going on a sort of lockdown.

People will be restricted from leaving/entering the area while the authorities get a better handle on the numbers involved and the spread of cases.

They have gone so far as to suggest it may be a short term move.

Thelonious Monk

Flew out of T2 this morning to Spain, with the folks now. Sun splitting the sky. I've a week off then gonna work from home for a few weeks so not sure when I'm going back.
Flight and airports at both ends very well managed. You have to do a pre clearance thing for spain now like the one for USA. Masks on everyone at airport and on flight and people spread out on plane.
So glad to get away from that weather and to see my folks i think i was losing it a bit all that time alone. Gonna cycle to the gym shortly then have a swim in the sea and have a beer. The good life!

Plumbthedepths

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Flew out of T2 this morning to Spain, with the folks now. Sun splitting the sky. I've a week off then gonna work from home for a few weeks so not sure when I'm going back.
Flight and airports at both ends very well managed. You have to do a pre clearance thing for spain now like the one for USA. Masks on everyone at airport and on flight and people spread out on plane.
So glad to get away from that weather and to see my folks i think i was losing it a bit all that time alone. Gonna cycle to the gym shortly then have a swim in the sea and have a beer. The good life!

Thanks for the update, enjoy your time away.

The_Brood

Damiencm wrote: »

No it's not.

One reasonably small region in the north east of Spain is going on a sort of lockdown.

People will be restricted from leaving/entering the area while the authorities get a better handle on the numbers involved and the spread of cases.

They have gone so far as to suggest it may be a short term move.

Catalonia is not small but regardless, one cannot reasonably have any comfort or peace of mind traveling to a nation that is locking down regions because of the virus spread. No country is free from the virus, but this is different, it just puts into question any plan.

Damiencm

The_Brood wrote:

If you fly out for a holiday and get sick in a foreign country, or borders get closed, or suddenly quarantine rules get enforced and then you can't get to work if you have to etc. etc. obviously will be a complete nightmare mess, and absolutely no one can tell you what the chances of that happening are - but clearly they are not very small. A "green list" of countries sadly means little when the situations change all the time and out of nowhere.

If you take the view that you are responsible for yourself i.e. hand hygiene, mask indoors and social distancing you would be very and I mean very unlucky to catch Covid19. Actually you would be incredibly unlikely to pick up an sort of viral infection!

If you do get sick (for any reason) you will be able to rely on your EHIC card in Europe.

Damiencm

The_Brood wrote:

Catalonia is not small but regardless, one cannot reasonably have any comfort or peace of mind traveling to a nation that is locking down regions because of the virus spread. No country is free from the virus, but this is different, it just puts into question any plan.

Catalonia is not on lockdown.

A region within it is.

I agree it is difficult but I think we need to get used to it for the foreseeable. I am lucky enough to be able to WFH when I return from Spain.

If it came to it I could probably work from Spain for a week or 2 if I had to!

Obviously not many will have that luxury

DebDynamite

ZX7R wrote: »

It appears that the covid-19 sub committee have drawn up a roadmap for flight travel,it's expected to go to government on Monday and expected to be singed off on.
But it's not expected to be in acted till the 23 of July so the CMO and team can evaluate how the progress of the EU travel area has been affected or not by travel.

I think that makes sense, tbf. However, I don’t see what difference it makes. Flights are flying in and out of here already. Can someone please explain, The only problem is, does that mean up until 23rd July, people from the US are allowed to fly in here unrestricted. Why are we delaying banning the US?

lawrencesummers

The_Brood wrote: »

Spain going into lockdown again over increase in cases.

I honestly don't know what to do. Every choice is abysmal.

If you fly out for a holiday and get sick in a foreign country, or borders get closed, or suddenly quarantine rules get enforced and then you can't get to work if you have to etc. etc. obviously will be a complete nightmare mess, and absolutely no one can tell you what the chances of that happening are - but clearly they are not very small. A "green list" of countries sadly means little when the situations change all the time and out of nowhere.

And if you stay here all "summer" your mental health is going to be absolutely annihilated, if it already isn't, due to the weather. For me at least what is outside during "summer" is just the darkest corners of depression imaginable. The joy of everything has been sucked out. No escape from it.

Hell at every corner.

If somebody I knew likened being in Ireland for a summer is “hell at every corner” and will “absolutely annihilate” your mental health because it’s the “darkest corners of depression” then I would be recommending them to seek professional help.