Will you travel? [Mod Note in Post #1 - Travel Discussion Only! Megathread]

Irishphotodesk

Micky 32 wrote: »

The virus WILL never be eradicated unless we get a vaccine. So how long should we not travel for? Indefinately? You do realise a lot of people have family abroad.

Do you know how to stop transmission of a virus that travels by droplet? A vaccine is only one solution, New Zealand were able to remove the virus until they reopened their borders and people travelled from the UK and reportedly hid symptoms of covid, we are close to stopping it in this country - with such low numbers (single digits contracting the virus out of approx 5million) the chance of catching it is extremely low, almost non existent.

I have family members in other countries and within Ireland .... I haven’t seen them, and don’t intend on doing that for a while longer (some of my family members have not been socially distant from other people and while the risk is extreeeemely low, I’m doing what’s best for my family, given the information available, we don’t know what long term effects this virus will have, I would rather not get it if it’s possible)

Tenzor07 wrote: »

What's the end game on this then? Elimination? How long should we limit travel for?

If we followed NZ and restrict travel in and out until we and other countries were completely covid free then it could/would eliminate the risk of catching the virus. IF all countries did this the virus is eliminated.

Assetbacked wrote: »

How does this opinion sit with tourists arriving into Ireland? Before you say we "should" prevent them coming in, just to let you know we are not doing this.

If the government were doing it correctly they would enforce the 14day quarantine for visitors and either send those who break quarantine back to the country they came from on the day they are caught in breach of quarantine or fine them significantly...but it’s easier to say what they should be doing instead of offering an actual real world solution.


On a side note..... the virus should have eliminated nits, some STIs and other diseases etc which are transmitted through contact (if the world adhered to proper isolation)

d15ude

charlietheminxx wrote: »

Do you not think that infringes on their personal freedoms to not work beside someone who is just off the plane?

I think it would infringe their personal freedom to work in a place where proper social distancing is not possible.

As long as there is no law, I will certainly not share any private and personal details with my employer.

Assetbacked

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

Do you know how to stop transmission of a virus that travels by droplet? A vaccine is only one solution, New Zealand were able to remove the virus until they reopened their borders and people travelled from the UK and reportedly hid symptoms of covid, we are close to stopping it in this country - with such low numbers (single digits contracting the virus out of approx 5million) the chance of catching it is extremely low, almost non existent.

I have family members in other countries and within Ireland .... I haven’t seen them, and don’t intend on doing that for a while longer (some of my family members have not been socially distant from other people and while the risk is extreeeemely low, I’m doing what’s best for my family, given the information available, we don’t know what long term effects this virus will have, I would rather not get it if it’s possible)



If we followed NZ and restrict travel in and out until we and other countries were completely covid free then it could/would eliminate the risk of catching the virus. IF all countries did this the virus is eliminated.




If the government were doing it correctly they would enforce the 14day quarantine for visitors and either send those who break quarantine back to the country they came from on the day they are caught in breach of quarantine or fine them significantly...but it’s easier to say what they should be doing instead of offering an actual real world solution.


On a side note..... the virus should have eliminated nits, some STIs and other diseases etc which are transmitted through contact (if the world adhered to proper isolation)

But this is exactly the point, this 14 day forced quarantine for visitors is not being enforced as it cannot be enforced. Therefore, why should Irish people be forced to stay at home when people from other countries can arrive in our country and potter about without having to quarantine?

The solution is to allow travel, have good hygiene practices and education with effective track and tracing as well as bulked up hospital resources and then we get on with life.

Plumbthedepths

Sweet Christ New Zealand still getting a mention. I really wonder do posters that reference NZ, are they completely clueless as to the difference between a country sharing a land border with another state and a country in the middle of f**king nowhere.

facehugger99

charlietheminxx wrote: »

I've explained how it is other people's business. If you infect "Mary" in work, and she ends up on a ventilator, do you not think you're responsible?

Saying I'm swallowing guilt-trip propaganda while ranting about your civil liberties to sit on a beach in Spain, spare me your self-centered diatribe. You can take your holiday and choose to ignore the requirement to self-isolate but it is not a big ask to at least inform your employer if you're going to do that, rather than you making the decision for everyone. Do you not think that infringes on their personal freedoms to not work beside someone who is just off the plane?

I knew someone who died of this illness, so maybe I just take it more seriously than you. I can't even begin to see from your perspective, it just seems so selfish and ME ME ME and MY RIGHTS and MY PRIVACY and MY CHOICES - if you live in a society you should understand your choices affect other people.

Everyone's choices affect other people.

Are you as worried about the hundreds that lose their lives on the road every year?

Do you give a sh;t about he millions who die of starvation every year?


Or have you just chosen to be very exercised by the minuscule risks posed by this virus - Conditioned by the hysteria pumped out by RTE 24/7.

You live in a society - and you should understand the underlying risks of that decision or else you need to find yourself a fear-cave a crawl inside it

stephenjmcd

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

Do you know how to stop transmission of a virus that travels by droplet? A vaccine is only one solution, New Zealand were able to remove the virus until they reopened their borders and people travelled from the UK and reportedly hid symptoms of covid, we are close to stopping it in this country - with such low numbers (single digits contracting the virus out of approx 5million) the chance of catching it is extremely low, almost non existent.

I have family members in other countries and within Ireland .... I haven’t seen them, and don’t intend on doing that for a while longer (some of my family members have not been socially distant from other people and while the risk is extreeeemely low, I’m doing what’s best for my family, given the information available, we don’t know what long term effects this virus will have, I would rather not get it if it’s possible)



If we followed NZ and restrict travel in and out until we and other countries were completely covid free then it could/would eliminate the risk of catching the virus. IF all countries did this the virus is eliminated.




If the government were doing it correctly they would enforce the 14day quarantine for visitors and either send those who break quarantine back to the country they came from on the day they are caught in breach of quarantine or fine them significantly...but it’s easier to say what they should be doing instead of offering an actual real world solution.


On a side note..... the virus should have eliminated nits, some STIs and other diseases etc which are transmitted through contact (if the world adhered to proper isolation)

For all the references about New Zealand, this has been discussed time and time again, we aren't New Zealand, they're in the middle of nowhere thousands of miles from their nearest neighbour. We're in Europe. The 2 aren't remotely comparable in terms of travel

charlietheminxx

facehugger99 wrote: »

Everyone's choices affect other people.

Are you as worried about the hundreds that lose their lives on the road every year?

Do you give a sh;t about he millions who die of starvation every year?


Or have you just chosen to be very exercised by the minuscule risks posed by this virus - Conditioned by the hysteria pumped out by RTE 24/7.

You live in a society - and you should understand the underlying risks of that decision you need to find yourself a fear-cave a crawl inside it

You're disgusting, insulting and heartless as fuck to say I'm conditioned by RTE when I've explained why I take it seriously. You can't even debate the issue at hand without massive whataboutery so I'm not going to discuss it with you anymore.

You think I need to hide in a fear cave? You need to run into traffic blindfolded like the fearless mad-bastard you are.

Tenzor07

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

A vaccine is only one solution, New Zealand were able to remove the virus
If we followed NZ and restrict travel in and out until we and other countries were completely covid free then it could/would eliminate the risk of catching the virus. IF all countries did this the virus is eliminated.

News Flash.... You Cannot eliminate a virus from which there is no cure or vaccine.

NZ didn't have plane loads of rugby supporters coming from Northern Italy at the start of this pandemic, they also didn't have thousands going to Cheltenham.
They're also a remote Island with no land border with another jurisdiction. Or have free travel agreements with an European union of over 700million people..

The list goes on really!

josip

DebDynamite wrote: »

If there’s virtually zero cases in the community here, we’ll be safe even if social distancing goes out the window by some people. They only thing that will spike the numbers in a short space of time is international travel in large numbers from counties performing worse than us .

I don't think you are aware of how contagious this virus is.
Masked people following distancing protocol while travelling abroad are way less likely to spread it than unmasked people in enclosed pubs for a night.
At least with the 'ban' on travelling for the next few weeks we'll be able to test your hypothesis.
Any uptick in case numbers will not be due to travel.

josip

Tenzor07 wrote: »

News Flash.... You Cannot eliminate a virus from which there is no cure or vaccine.

NZ didn't have plane loads of rugby supporters coming from Northern Italy at the start of this pandemic, they also didn't have thousands going to Cheltenham.
They're also a remote Island with no land border with another jurisdiction. Or have free travel agreements with an European union of over 700million people..

The list goes on really!

They're so remote, the world forgets about them and leaves them off maps.
They've even been known to leave themselves off maps.
https://theculturetrip.com/pacific/new-zealand/articles/new-zealand-keeps-being-left-off-world-maps-and-heres-why/

Van.Bosch

josip wrote: »

I don't think you are aware of how contagious this virus is.
Masked people following distancing protocol while travelling abroad are way less likely to spread it than unmasked people in enclosed pubs for a night.
At least with the 'ban' on travelling for the next few weeks we'll be able to test your hypothesis.
Any uptick in case numbers will not be due to travel.

But travel will still be blamed

Irishphotodesk

stephenjmcd wrote: »

For all the references about New Zealand, this has been discussed time and time again, we aren't New Zealand, they're in the middle of nowhere thousands of miles from their nearest neighbour. We're in Europe. The 2 aren't remotely comparable in terms of travel

How can you say two islands are not comparable in terms of travel, both are islands with no land borders, the only way to access either Ireland or NZ is by air or boat, which is exactly how you can compare the two.


NZ stopped all non essential travel in and out and managed to remove the virus (until it reopened its borders and some people thought they knew better than official rules/guidelines to avoid transmission).


Answer me this.... how did the virus travel from country to country ?

Van.Bosch

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

How can you say two islands are not comparable in terms of travel, both are islands with no land borders, the only way to access either Ireland or NZ is by air or boat, which is exactly how you can compare the two.


NZ stopped all non essential travel in and out and managed to remove the virus (until it reopened its borders and some people thought they knew better than official rules/guidelines to avoid transmission).


Answer me this.... how did the virus travel from country to country ?

One island is governed by two governments, there’s a pretty big difference for you. One of those governments is part of a wider common travel area where the rest of the UK has a huge spread.

Irishphotodesk

Tenzor07 wrote: »

News Flash.... You Cannot eliminate a virus from which there is no cure or vaccine.

NZ didn't have plane loads of rugby supporters coming from Northern Italy at the start of this pandemic, they also didn't have thousands going to Cheltenham.
They're also a remote Island with no land border with another jurisdiction. Or have free travel agreements with an European union of over 700million people..

The list goes on really!

NZ eliminated the virus without a cure or vaccine ....explain that !

Yes, it was reportedly reintroduced by UK travelers who lied, but at one point it was eliminated and will be eliminated again, how did they do it.... it wasn’t a vaccine or cure, it was the restriction on entering or exiting the country.

Limpy

What if the vaccine kills 1 in every 100 thousand people due to side effects.

Let all the doom merchants build an Ark with Eamon Ryan and feck off to sea. Meanwhile we'll work, travel and try get the country going again.

Tenzor07

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

How can you say two islands are not comparable in terms of travel, both are islands with no land borders, the only way to access either Ireland or NZ is by air or boat, which is exactly how you can compare the two.NZ stopped all non essential travel in and out and managed to remove the virus (until it reopened its borders and some people thought they knew better than official rules/guidelines to avoid transmission).
Answer me this.... how did the virus travel from country to country ?

Oh man, do some research on the differences between Ireland and NZ will ya! :rolleyes:

For starters a flight from Sydney Australia to Wellington NZ is almost 6 hours!!

Answer me this, so travelling within your own country stops the virus, but once you go across a border it means you'll catch it??

Tenzor07

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

NZ eliminated the virus without a cure or vaccine ....explain that !.

The Virus HAS NOT been eliminated... it's without cure or vaccine.

Think of it like this, if you never went out in the rain you'd never get wet right? Can you stay indoors forever? No
Well the rain is still out there, get it?

HeidiHeidi

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

How can you say two islands are not comparable in terms of travel, both are islands with no land borders, the only way to access either Ireland or NZ is by air or boat, which is exactly how you can compare the two.


NZ stopped all non essential travel in and out and managed to remove the virus (until it reopened its borders and some people thought they knew better than official rules/guidelines to avoid transmission).


Answer me this.... how did the virus travel from country to country ?

What, now???

munchkin_utd

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

How can you say two islands are not comparable in terms of travel, both are islands with no land borders, the only way to access either Ireland or NZ is by air or boat, which is exactly how you can compare the two.

am i missing something ?

have we a united Ireland announced in stealth ? The unionists in the north no longer want anything to do with the REST of the UK ?

ZX7R

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

NZ eliminated the virus without a cure or vaccine ....explain that !

Yes, it was reportedly reintroduced by UK travelers who lied, but at one point it was eliminated and will be eliminated again, how did they do it.... it wasn’t a vaccine or cure, it was the restriction on entering or exiting the country.

Reported wrong
New Zealand authorities let them leave quarantine early on compassionate grounds.they were released before there test results were received.

DebDynamite

josip wrote: »

I don't think you are aware of how contagious this virus is.
Masked people following distancing protocol while travelling abroad are way less likely to spread it than unmasked people in enclosed pubs for a night.
At least with the 'ban' on travelling for the next few weeks we'll be able to test your hypothesis.
Any uptick in case numbers will not be due to travel.

Considering only last week, 17% of all new cases the two week’s prior (when international travel was still restricted) were travel related, that is clearly false.

acequion

DebDynamite wrote: »

I’m saying hold off until September. If we can open up the economy safely and get the schools back, open back up. As I said above, if it contributes to a spike in numbers which isn’t sustainable and will put pressure on our services, bring back the restrictions. Hopefully by then the rest of Europe will have caught up and be at the same level as us and we can have travel between equally safe countries.

Re quarantine, if travelling from counties who are managing just as well as we are, no need. If travelling from unsafe countries, 14 day quarantine, or two negative Covid tests over 5 days and and you can go on your way

Holding off until September is effectively ruling out the summer when the majority,for all sorts of reasons,prefer to travel.

How on earth can you justify denying the Irish people that fundamental right when no other country in Europe is doing it? And how can you justify expecting our people to make such sacrifices for the poor state of our services?

The curve has been flattened, people have made the sacrifices to do that. Expecting or god forbid, forcing more from them and doing what you suggest is a major infringement of civil liberties.

jonnny68

finally some sense , spot on here.


https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/telling-people-not-to-travel-overseas-on-holiday-is-wrong-headed-1.4297275

T.V Eye

From reading the HSE form you need to complete on arrival to Dublin Airport, I think you could say that you're going to the North, allowing you to skip the sections that state where you'll be staying and then "Get and bus there and back" sidestepping the request to quarantine.

I think people should give their correct information, for contact tracing, but the quarantine requirement is nonsense.

I also wonder if this drags on any longer, can we challenge this at a higher level than the Irish Government as EU Citizens whose freedom of movement is being somewhat infringed upon without sufficient reasoning.

Plumbthedepths

acequion wrote: »

Holding off until September is effectively ruling out the summer when the majority,for all sorts of reasons,prefer to travel.

How on earth can you justify denying the Irish people that fundamental right when no other country in Europe is doing it? And how can you justify expecting our people to make such sacrifices for the poor state of our services?

The curve has been flattened, people have made the sacrifices to do that. Expecting or god forbid, forcing more from them and doing what you suggest is a major infringement of civil liberties.

The public has been getting the blame since the start of the crisis for the state being unable to get the finger out. Remember the testing delay.

MickeyLeari

T.V Eye wrote: »

From reading the HSE form you need to complete on arrival to Dublin Airport, I think you could say that you're going to the North, allowing you to skip the sections that state where you'll be staying and then "Get and bus there and back" sidestepping the request to quarantine.

I think people should give their correct information, for contact tracing, but the quarantine requirement is nonsense.

I also wonder if this drags on any longer, can we challenge this at a higher level than the Irish Government as EU Citizens whose freedom of movement is being somewhat infringed upon without sufficient reasoning.

I would say it is definitely subject to challenge. And the EU Commission is receptive to complaints when they have already identified a problem.

fawlty682

Experts keep comparing us to New Zealand, South Korea etc. Not good comparisons. We have a cosmopolitan population from many countries as well as a large Irish population living abroad. If we eliminate the virus by September, great of course. If UK, Europe, USA are not clear, what’s our plan then?

Clonmel1000

fawlty682 wrote: »

Experts keep comparing us to New Zealand, South Korea etc. Not good comparisons. We have a cosmopolitan population from many countries as well as a large Irish population living abroad. If we eliminate the virus by September, great of course. If UK, Europe, USA are not clear, what’s our plan then?

It seems to be Lockdown4eva and **** the economy from what I can see.

josip

DebDynamite wrote: »

Considering only last week, 17% of all new cases the two week’s prior (when international travel was still restricted) were travel related, that is clearly false.

Have you used the Covid App today?

DebDynamite

josip wrote: »

Have you used the Covid App today?

That’s overall.

From the Irish Times article (6th July) below:

“We are already looking at an upsurge in Covid cases from international travel. A few months back 2 per cent of new cases were from international travel. It’s now 17 per cent of new cases,” he said. (Stephen Donnelly)

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/cabinet-extends-advice-to-avoid-nonessential-travel-until-july-20th-1.4297457%3fmode=amp