Will you travel? [Mod Note in Post #1 - Travel Discussion Only! Megathread]

Dante7

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Of course airlines will be run flights sure according to Ryanair everywhere is open and feel free to go to Italy Spain Greece yet don’t worry the fact situation is worsening in most countries. Yes people may lose out on money but your health and that of your family and friends is more important .

It’s not rocket science travel if it’s essential only. Holidays are not essential

One very revealing thing about all this has been a lot of people's true attitudes towards Europe. When it comes down to it, people like you are really more like Brexiters than pro Europe. When I was in Spain last week I got talking to some German holidaymakers who were mystified by the Irish attitude to European travel. They viewed Spain as a fellow safe European destination, just like another city in Germany. Irish people turn into Johnny Englander and view Europe as "them".

MickeyLeari

Dante7 wrote: »

One very revealing thing about all this has been a lot of people's true attitudes towards Europe. When it comes down to it, people like you are really more like Brexiters than pro Europe. When I was in Spain last week I got talking to some German holidaymakers who were mystified by the Irish attitude to European travel. They viewed Spain as a fellow safe European destination, just like another city in Germany. Irish people turn into Johnny Englander and view Europe as "them".

Revealing and disturbing.

Dante7

Dante7 wrote: »

One very revealing thing about all this has been a lot of people's true attitudes towards Europe. When it comes down to it, people like you are really more like Brexiters than pro Europe. When I was in Spain last week I got talking to some German holidaymakers who were mystified by the Irish attitude to European travel. They viewed Spain as a fellow safe European destination, just like another city in Germany. Irish people turn into Johnny Englander and view Europe as "them".

I don’t think that’s fair. I think it’s more a natural function of us being an island, and also not part of schengen (and therefore no true freedom of movement like France and Germany and Spain enjoy across each other’s countries). I thought that research over the years had shown us to have one of the highest levels of support for the EU across Europe.

Hubertj

Sleety_Rain wrote: »

That's completely ridiculous, you have as much chance catching the virus on O'Connell street than in Athens

Can people really not grasp this point? Non essential travel to countries with similar infection rates should be allowed.

Otherwise we will be locked up for next 3 to 5 years , but perhaps you want that!

I’d be more worried catching something else on oconnell st than Covid.

munchkin_utd

Deleted User wrote: »

I don’t think that’s fair. I think it’s more a natural function of us being an island, and also not part of schengen (and therefore no true freedom of movement like France and Germany and Spain enjoy across each other’s countries). I thought that research over the years had shown us to have one of the highest levels of support for the EU across Europe.

agh, its all grand.

If Ireland wants to be different on the Covid response to every single other member of the EU, then I presume Ireland also doesnt want any of the 750 billion euro pot to help overcome the effects of it.

Sure, Ireland wont need it anyhow. It'll be a covid free paradise so wont need the cash

ThatsNotMyCat

ThatsNotMyCat wrote: »

I would love a definition of non-essential (or, more pertinent perhaps, essential) travel... does one exist?

I don't believe we've been given a definition, but a useful working definition would be the one that applied to essential travel for our national lockdown -- work that cannot be done at home, a pressing social need (such as looking after a sick relative), and er, bitta exercise?

maestroamado

Dante7 wrote: »

One very revealing thing about all this has been a lot of people's true attitudes towards Europe. When it comes down to it, people like you are really more like Brexiters than pro Europe. When I was in Spain last week I got talking to some German holidaymakers who were mystified by the Irish attitude to European travel. They viewed Spain as a fellow safe European destination, just like another city in Germany. Irish people turn into Johnny Englander and view Europe as "them".

Personally i have thought from the beginning that the EU should have taken a more leadership role in this as we have being hammered with EU directives on all aspects of our lives over last 30+ years.
We really need in my view to have pretty much the same rules thourought EU in my view and they are saying each country do their own thing, if there is a problem in one country just advise people not to travel.
One example is EasyJet announced they keep middle seat free on flights and EU decided this not necessary.

Dante7

Dante7 wrote: »

One very revealing thing about all this has been a lot of people's true attitudes towards Europe. When it comes down to it, people like you are really more like Brexiters than pro Europe. When I was in Spain last week I got talking to some German holidaymakers who were mystified by the Irish attitude to European travel. They viewed Spain as a fellow safe European destination, just like another city in Germany. Irish people turn into Johnny Englander and view Europe as "them".

your views are very cycnical about Irish people at times, you have a perception about how the "ordinary Irish " person behaves compare to you, which comes across as very smug. Yesterday is was all of us idiots shopping in Lidl in Galway while you were the clever one staying in the Canaries for the whole Summer.

Now you make sweeping generalisations about "Irish attitudes" an "Irish people turning into Johnny Englander" - as you speak to German holidaymakers about us! Mmmmm. You seem to be one step ahead of the rest of us idiots in Ireland.

I am totally against lockdown restrictions and have been from the beginning. I think the damage to the economy is going to with us for decades especially if this carries on. I think travel should be allowed to Europe and other countries
that have their numbers under control. I don't think American flights should be coming in here except for cargo and repatriation.

HOWEVER I think the reason people are scared about imported cases in this country is that we are a ISLAND. We have the ability to contain our cases within the State and have less movement of people , unlike European countries with open borders. Its great to see the progress we made, and a lot of of that was because we could limit travel and almost completely shut the country down during at the beginning.

Its understandable that people would literally think of floodgates opening now, whether that's rational or not, its part of being on an island. Likewise with the Aran islands and other offshore Irish islands, they want to remain permanently closed to visitors, even now. Its an island thing. Its not Johnny Englander!

munchkin_utd

munchkin_utd wrote: »

agh, its all grand.

If Ireland wants to be different on the Covid response to every single other member of the EU, then I presume Ireland also doesnt want any of the 750 billion euro pot to help overcome the effects of it.

Sure, Ireland wont need it anyhow. It'll be a covid free paradise so wont need the cash

Nobody is saying that and its certainly not what the poster said in their comment. We actually have a great relationship with Europe. Would Pascal O Donoghue have landed that top job WTO last week or Phil Hogan be European Commissioner for Trade if we were not well thought of?? We continue to have excellent trade conditions and our corporation tax is the envy of other member states.

No country on the planet can boast of having a covid free paradise. Nobody here is saying that. Covid is part of all of our lives from now on.

munchkin_utd

Deleted User wrote: »

<snip>

No country on the planet can boast of having a covid free paradise. Nobody here is saying that. Covid is part of all of our lives from now on.

New Zealand is basically covid free and only today more experts are appealing to the government to be the new New Zealand and seal off the island and become covid free and get back to normal and remove all restrictions
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/experts-seek-immediate-and-decisive-action-to-crush-virus-here-1011208.html

if this happens there'll be a 1 country green list consisting of only New Zealand, and Ireland will have a lot of questions to answer to the rest of the EU

EDIT: this is specifically what the "experts" are calling for: "The country could then set up “safe travel bridges” between other countries with similar “zero-Covid strategies”, it said."
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-ireland-likely-faces-imminent-second-wave-due-to-reopening-experts-warn-1.4304607

faceman

Damiencm wrote: »

All a bit strange, no more than the school principals going off on a solo run in the past week also.

Scenario: public servant decides feck it, I need a holiday with some actual sunshine. Off to Alicante I go.

It just so happens that I have a makey uppy Aunt living in Alicante who's husband is terminally ill with no family nearby. Deemed an essential reason to travel surely?

Who is going to call that person a liar with a follow up investigation?

Before anyone starts on the moral rights and wrongs, the policy is plainly impossible to police.

Also why the email/notification now when it appears we will have some sort of green list for travel without quarantine on return within a few days?

It's just yet another example of something that makes no sense.

You’d still be expected to quarantine on your return though

Dante7

Deleted User wrote: »

your views are very cycnical about Irish people at times, you have a perception about how the "ordinary Irish " person behaves compare to you, which comes across as very smug. Yesterday is was all of us idiots shopping in Lidl in Galway while you were the clever one staying in the Canaries for the whole Summer.

Now you make sweeping generalisations about "Irish attitudes" an "Irish people turning into Johnny Englander" - as you speak to German holidaymakers about us! Mmmmm. You seem to be one step ahead of the rest of us idiots in Ireland.

I am totally against lockdown restrictions and have been from the beginning. I think the damage to the economy is going to with us for decades especially if this carries on. I think travel should be allowed to Europe and other countries
that have their numbers under control. I don't think American flights should be coming in here except for cargo and repatriation.

HOWEVER I think the reason people are scared about imported cases in this country is that we are a ISLAND. We have the ability to contain our cases within the State and have less movement of people , unlike European countries with open borders. Its great to see the progress we made, and a lot of of that was because we could limit travel and almost completely shut the country down during at the beginning.

Its understandable that people would literally think of floodgates opening now, whether that's rational or not, its part of being on an island. Likewise with the Aran islands and other offshore Irish islands, they want to remain permanently closed to visitors, even now. Its an island thing. Its not Johnny Englander!

You make a lot of fair points, and I don't necessarily disagree with you. I suppose my main gripe is with the mob mentality and begrudgery that seems to be more prevalent in Irish society for some reason. For this reason I am definitely cynical about Irish people. Wait and see on Monday how the direction of the mob shifts regarding travel to the EU when they have been told what is ok. No facts will have changed between now and then except that they will have been told what it is ok to virtue signal and/or get outraged about. It's the lack of critical thinking that does my head in. It was the same when people were trying to argue that masks were ineffective. You would have to have a hole in your head to not realise that wearing a mask would be beneficial in stopping the spread of a respiratory virus.

faceman

munchkin_utd wrote: »

New Zealand is basically covid free and only today more experts are appealing to the government to be the new New Zealand and seal off the island and become covid free and get back to normal and remove all restrictions
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/experts-seek-immediate-and-decisive-action-to-crush-virus-here-1011208.html

if this happens there'll be a 1 country green list consisting of only New Zealand, and Ireland will have a lot of questions to answer to the rest of the EU

EDIT: this is specifically what the "experts" are calling for: "The country could then set up “safe travel bridges” between other countries with similar “zero-Covid strategies”, it said."
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-ireland-likely-faces-imminent-second-wave-due-to-reopening-experts-warn-1.4304607

Have you ever heard such nonsense. No other country is going to be Covid free unless they close their country to the world. Until there is a vaccine it’s impossible to be Covid free.

What economy can operate in an environment like that? Not Ireland that heavily relies on FDI and imports. Are we going to close our borders there too?

Comical

un5byh7sqpd2x0

faceman wrote: »

Have you ever heard such nonsense. No other country is going to be Covid free unless they close their country to the world. Until there is a vaccine it’s impossible to be Covid free.

What economy can operate in an environment like that?

New Zealand

MickeyLeari

faceman wrote: »

You’d still be expected to quarantine on your return though

Will MM self isolate for two weeks after his trip to Brussels this week?

MickeyLeari

Stephen Gifted Geophysics wrote: »

New Zealand

We are not New Zealand. We are in a single market with 26 other countries with freedom of movement between us.

stargazer 68

MickeyLeari wrote: »

Will MM self isolate for two weeks after his trip to Brussels this week?

Doubt it - Belgium will be first on his 'Green List'

Tenzor07

MickeyLeari wrote: »

We are not New Zealand. We are in a single market with 26 other countries with freedom of movement between us.

If I had €1 for every-time they mention New Zealand I could rent a private Jet to take me there!

scrips

Colleague of mine was allowed to self-isolate on return from abroad by working from home in March, when virus threat was far higher.

I think the PeoplePoint announcement is just another blunt tool to ram the travel message home, as it will all have to be reviewed next week anyway, unless the two weeks self-isolation is mandatory when returning from absolutely everywhere, green list or not.

Could see thousands of public and civil servants carrying over their Annual Leave to 2021.

Plumbthedepths

munchkin_utd wrote: »

New Zealand is basically covid free and only today more experts are appealing to the government to be the new New Zealand and seal off the island and become covid free and get back to normal and remove all restrictions
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/experts-seek-immediate-and-decisive-action-to-crush-virus-here-1011208.html

if this happens there'll be a 1 country green list consisting of only New Zealand, and Ireland will have a lot of questions to answer to the rest of the EU

EDIT: this is specifically what the "experts" are calling for: "The country could then set up “safe travel bridges” between other countries with similar “zero-Covid strategies”, it said."
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-ireland-likely-faces-imminent-second-wave-due-to-reopening-experts-warn-1.4304607

As a lay person I should not feel justified in calling these experts idiots.
New Zealand is 6 hours flight time to it's nearest neighbour.

Tenzor07

scrips wrote: »

Could see thousands of public and civil servants carrying over their Annual Leave to 2021.

In that case i'd say a lot of them could take half of 2021 off and travel the world...

Clonmel1000

With the green list do people think that the 2 weeks will be removed to quarantine?

fawlty682

Between the gloomy discussion, Government inaction and the weather, we will all need to go away or lose our minds. Medical experts haven’t managed a proper health service, so we cannot expect them to run a country. Ridiculous that it’s Wednesday and still pubs don’t have a decision about Monday. Exactly the type of governance that has the HSE where it is.

faceman

This reads like Fawlty Towers. We don’t even have the facility to ensure passengers are completing the forms before they leave the airport or in advance online. What a joke.

Talking to people here in Spain and some other international friends, Ireland is becoming the laughing stock of Europe.

The government is throwing shít at the wall and hoping some of it sticks

Three visitors investigated by Garda after refusing to fill in locator form
via The Irish Times
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/three-visitors-investigated-by-garda-after-refusing-to-fill-in-locator-form-1.4304550

Assetbacked

Clonmel1000 wrote: »

With the green list do people think that the 2 weeks will be removed to quarantine?

That's the point of the green list as, currently there is no restriction on flying but there is guidance which says you need to quarantine when you return to Ireland. A green list will get rid of that quarantine requirement when it comes out in a few days.

Assetbacked

faceman wrote: »

This reads like Fawlty Towers. We don’t even have the facility to ensure passengers are completing the forms before they leave the airport or in advance online. What a joke.

Talking to people here in Spain and some other international friends, Ireland is becoming the laughing stock of Europe.

The government is throwing shít at the wall and hoping some of it sticks

Three visitors investigated by Garda after refusing to fill in locator form
via The Irish Times
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/three-visitors-investigated-by-garda-after-refusing-to-fill-in-locator-form-1.4304550

From the article;

The forms must be completed to include contact details for all new arrivals at ports and airports and the details of where they intend to spend the following 14 days in quarantine. The BMU, an agency of the Department of Justice, is responsible for contacting the passengers during the 14-day period to check they are staying at the address they included on their forms and are complying with the quarantine condition.

The BMU have said in the last week they don't have capacity to follow up with passengers. Further, in any event, the follow up was just a phone call to ask where you were staying.

When checks are made on the passengers by the BMU and the passengers are not staying where they said they would be, that can be regarded as a failure to fill out the form accurately and can trigger a criminal investigation.

There is zero chance this is being investigated for the reasons set out above to do with lack of capacity and no real follow up process other than a phone call (which you can just ignore).

The IT should be writing about how these measures are utterly useless rather than pumping out what could happen if they were done correctly. But of course, if it appeared that actually there is no consequence for not following the guidance, the little boys and girls of Ireland would depart on their holidays en masse, in numbers not seen since the famine! Another day, another nonsense article.

anplaya27

Sure if you're Deaf and the only way they're following up is a phone call you have the perfect excuse if they ask why you didnt answer etc. Love to see them trying to charge you with anything for not answering a phone call from them then.

Tenzor07

fawlty682 wrote: »

Between the gloomy discussion, Government inaction and the weather, we will all need to go away or lose our minds. Medical experts haven’t managed a proper health service, so we cannot expect them to run a country. Ridiculous that it’s Wednesday and still pubs don’t have a decision about Monday. Exactly the type of governance that has the HSE where it is.

Exactly, can't go for a pint, can't go for a holiday, can't get a scan at a hospital... Still being treated like Children while we watch ministers being sacked, and others complaining about the aircon and food at the €25,000 a day convention center... Banana republic!

faceman

Assetbacked wrote: »

From the article;



The BMU have said in the last week they don't have capacity to follow up with passengers. Further, in any event, the follow up was just a phone call to ask where you were staying.



There is zero chance this is being investigated for the reasons set out above to do with lack of capacity and no real follow up process other than a phone call (which you can just ignore).

The IT should be writing about how these measures are utterly useless rather than pumping out what could happen if they were done correctly. But of course, if it appeared that actually there is no consequence for not following the guidance, the little boys and girls of Ireland would depart on their holidays en masse, in numbers not seen since the famine! Another day, another nonsense article.

I get that but what I am saying is they dont even have additional staff in the airport to ensure forms are being completed there.

Spain hired hundreds of additional airport staff, including medical, for airpots to ensure forms are completed and to do temperature checks. Its beyond me why as a simple first step we aren't doing the same.

completedit

Dante7 wrote: »

One very revealing thing about all this has been a lot of people's true attitudes towards Europe. When it comes down to it, people like you are really more like Brexiters than pro Europe. When I was in Spain last week I got talking to some German holidaymakers who were mystified by the Irish attitude to European travel. They viewed Spain as a fellow safe European destination, just like another city in Germany. Irish people turn into Johnny Englander and view Europe as "them".

Irish people aren't pro-EU in any sort of ideological sense.

But about those Germans, I wonder what Spanish people think. Of course, the Germans want to justify their beach vacation.