Covid-19; Impact on the aviation industry

Tenger

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

A lot of people out of work, probably never to return but you won't hear about that as its not aer lingus or Ryanair.

It’s a visibility issue. The majority of the public are familiar with the big brands (Ryanair and Aer Lingus) less so with Stobart, Aer Arann, LoganAir etc, and even more so with the suppliers/handling agents around the airport/airlines.
Just look at the info a few months back about Thompson in Dungannon (J Class seat manufacturer) laying off workers.

Think about Microsoft or Apple for example. Does anyone not connected with them know who supplies their chipsets for use in their devices?
Think of the food vendors who are no longer getting business because pubs, restaurants and hotels aren’t serving food anymore.

I don’t think it’s a lack of caring from the public but rather a lack of knowledge.
The airlines in Ireland may only directly employ 10,000 staff, but their business supports another 40-50000 amongst their suppliers.

donkey balls

Mallaghan who make a lot of GSE are also letting staff go, Staff at LHR are going on strike the airport are looking for a 25% cut in pay or fire and rehire on different T&C.
As I said at the start of the pandemic companies will use it to f**k over their employees, Just like the last recession in 07/08.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/nov/16/heathrow-workers-to-strike-for-four-days-in-december-over-pay-cuts

PommieBast

Compared to my last flight a few months ago Aer Lingus on LHR-DUB have slackened their anti-Covid measures. Now putting people not travelling together next to each other and bought back in-flight service.

Economics kicking in

lintdrummer

PommieBast wrote: »

Compared to my last flight a few months ago Aer Lingus on LHR-DUB have slackened their anti-Covid measures. Now putting people not travelling together next to each other and bought back in-flight service.

Economics kicking in

Firstly the ECDC have confirmed what we all knew anyway, air travel is a very low risk when it comes to virus transmission. Article.

Secondly through the complete lack of support, and hysterical anti travel rhetoric that the Irish government continue to insist on, the airlines here are on their knees. They need to make any revenue they can now, and if selling a cup of tea and a sandwich helps well then that's what they're going to do.

What's the difference anyway, you've been allowed to bring and consume your own food and drink on board all along.

Mebuntu

Great performance by EI acting CEO on Brendan O'Connor's RTE programme just now discussing the real facts about air travel travel during these Covid times. Well worth a listen back later when it's up on their website. Get booking!

MadYaker

lintdrummer wrote: »

Firstly the ECDC have confirmed what we all knew anyway, air travel is a very low risk when it comes to virus transmission. Article.

Secondly through the complete lack of support, and hysterical anti travel rhetoric that the Irish government continue to insist on, the airlines here are on their knees. They need to make any revenue they can now, and if selling a cup of tea and a sandwich helps well then that's what they're going to do.

What's the difference anyway, you've been allowed to bring and consume your own food and drink on board all along.

How can it been low risk for two people to sit side by side for an extended period on a plane but high risk for them to do it in a stadium / restaurant / pub etc? It's not rocket science, the virus spreads anywhere people are in close proximity to each other. The article didn't say flying was low risk it said travellers shouldn't automatically be considered higher risk or treated as if they are a positive case. The risk from sitting in a plane with others is the same as anywhere else. This is why the government have advised against all but essential international travel, just like most other countries. I miss travelling but trying to pretend that planes are some magic entity that reduces transmission of the virus is nonsense.

HTCOne

MadYaker wrote: »

How can it been low risk for two people to sit side by side for an extended period on a plane but high risk for them to do it in a stadium / restaurant / pub etc? It's not rocket science, the virus spreads anywhere people are in close proximity to each other. The article didn't say flying was low risk it said travellers shouldn't automatically be considered higher risk or treated as if they are a positive case. The risk from sitting in a plane with others is the same as anywhere else. This is why the government have advised against all but essential international travel, just like most other countries. I miss travelling but trying to pretend that planes are some magic entity that reduces transmission of the virus is nonsense.

This has been discussed and explained numerous times in the thread already. If you really want to know why sitting next to someone on an aircraft is different then I suggest you go back and read the thread. If you are just trolling however then knock yourself out.

lintdrummer

MadYaker wrote: »

How can it been low risk for two people to sit side by side for an extended period on a plane but high risk for them to do it in a stadium / restaurant / pub etc?

The biggest difference is the air filtration systems onboard aircraft which include HEPA filters.

MadYaker wrote: »

It's not rocket science, the virus spreads anywhere people are in close proximity to each other.

Yes, but mostly through direct physical contact or being sneezed/coughed on by someone who has the virus. Masks are compulsory on board. Strangers will avoid physical contact with each other as much as possible. Also, many of those travelling will now be getting tested beforehand either out of necessity or for peace of mind.

MadYaker wrote: »

The article didn't say flying was low risk it said travellers shouldn't automatically be considered higher risk or treated as if they are a positive case.

It actually says people who have traveled by air "should be treated like members of the local population who have not had any direct contact with an infected person". That's coming from the ECDC, not an aviation body. So no more risk than the general population going about their regular business. That's about as low risk you can get in this situation.

MadYaker wrote: »

The risk from sitting in a plane with others is the same as anywhere else.

Not really, see above.

MadYaker wrote: »

This is why the government have advised against all but essential international travel, just like most other countries.

Most other European countries opened for leisure travel towards the end of Summer. Ireland has been and remains an outlier in terms of travel policy.

MadYaker wrote: »

I miss travelling but trying to pretend that planes are some magic entity that reduces transmission of the virus is nonsense.

Nobody is suggesting this.

Tig98

How is IFS working with regard selling food? Are pax allowed take off mask to eat/drink etc?

lintdrummer

Tig98 wrote: »

How is IFS working with regard selling food? Are pax allowed take off mask to eat/drink etc?

Of course you are, this has been the case all along and yet there hasn't been a huge problem with cases related to air travel. You hardly think you'd be expected to dehydrate yourself as a sacrifice to be able to fly?
Bare in mind other airlines never stopped the in flight service and meals continued to be served on EI transatlantic routes.
People seem to have forgotten common sense in all of this. We all have a personal responsibility. If you need to take a drink or a bite of a sandwich on board, pull your mask down and then put it back on again.

MrMusician18

HTCOne wrote: »

This has been discussed and explained numerous times in the thread already. If you really want to know why sitting next to someone on an aircraft is different then I suggest you go back and read the thread. If you are just trolling however then knock yourself out.

Was it ever really about contracting the disease in the aircraft though? Airlines have done an excellent job of making air travel covid safe but unfortunately they cannot control whether or not their passengers have the disease.

The guidelines on international travel are more to prevent seeding new outbreaks, and less about controlling the contracting of the disease in well controlled environments like aircraft. So then it becomes a question of testing and quarantines. To a certain extent this is all becoming somewhat moot at this point. With the imminent roll out of the vaccine, normality will resume post Christmas in any case. Hopefully.

EchoIndia

MrMusician18 wrote: »

To a certain extent this is all becoming somewhat moot at this point. With the imminent roll out of the vaccine, normality will resume post Christmas in any case. Hopefully.

There are so many unknowns at this stage about the vaccines, what they will be capable of achieving and what the uptake will be, that predictions of an early return to normality are at the least premature at this stage, unfortunately.

smurfjed

Not sure if it was an urban legend or not, but it was said that the left over airline meals were sent to Dublin Zoo, so if this is still the case, the poor zoo has lost one of their food sources.

PommieBast

smurfjed wrote: »

Not sure if it was an urban legend or not, but it was said that the left over airline meals were sent to Dublin Zoo, so if this is still the case, the poor zoo has lost one of their food sources.

Leftover food is often classified as hazardous waste so I doubt it was ever true.

Podge_irl

PommieBast wrote: »

Leftover food is often classified as hazardous waste so I doubt it was ever true.

Catering waste from international transport is considered high risk material and can not be used as animal feed, only burned.

Inquitus

Luton airport is currently losing £400m a day as it stands currently, we an only assume that bar a couple of relaxation periods the UK introduced in the Summer that this has been an ongoing loss for most of the last 9 months. You have to wonder how long smaller airports like Luton can remain viable under the current circumstances, and Luton while a smaller airport in UK terms is actually quite big when compared to some of the really small regional airports. Unless things pick up in a hurry you'd have to imagine a number of airport bankruptcies are on the horizon. TBH I am amazed we haven't seen more already!

L1011

Inquitus wrote: »

Luton airport is currently losing £400m a day as it stands currently

It isn't, because it only turns over about 250m a year....

400k a day maybe? Going on their accounts that would be on the high end of the possible figures and would be assuming limited if any reduction in costs and no other supports, though.

bk

L1011 wrote: »

It isn't, because it only turns over about 250m a year....

400k a day maybe? Going on their accounts that would be on the high end of the possible figures and would be assuming limited if any reduction in costs and no other supports, though.

I'm guessing he mixed up that Luton Airport has £400 Million in debt:
https://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/transport/ps60m-loan-luton-airport-company-would-bring-total-it-owes-council-nearly-ps400m-2944478

Total debt, not daily obviously. Debt has obviously increased due to Covid19. Dublin Airport has €430 million in debt in 2019 (pre covid) as a comparison.

MrMusician18

Inquitus wrote: »

Luton airport is currently losing £400m a day as it stands currently, we an only assume that bar a couple of relaxation periods the UK introduced in the Summer that this has been an ongoing loss for most of the last 9 months. You have to wonder how long smaller airports like Luton can remain viable under the current circumstances, and Luton while a smaller airport in UK terms is actually quite big when compared to some of the really small regional airports. Unless things pick up in a hurry you'd have to imagine a number of airport bankruptcies are on the horizon. TBH I am amazed we haven't seen more already!

If Luton is spending 2.5 times more money per day than the Irish government is to run an entire country, I suspect Luton has larger problems than covid.

theguzman

MrMusician18 wrote: »

If Luton is spending 2.5 times more money per day than the Irish government is to run an entire country, I suspect Luton has larger problems than covid.

What what they charge for parking and even drop off there I would nearly believe the figure. :pac:

Inquitus

L1011 wrote: »

It isn't, because it only turns over about 250m a year....

400k a day maybe? Going on their accounts that would be on the high end of the possible figures and would be assuming limited if any reduction in costs and no other supports, though.

Sorry I mistyped, current losses are £600k a day and £4.2m a week.

L1011

600k a day sounds rather on the exaggerated (for pleading for cash off the Government) side based on their public accounts for 2019.

theguzman

Is Mask wearing absolutely mandatory on a plane? If you get covid19 because other passengers are not wearing masks could the airline be held liable for your own infection when they did not enforce or eject the anti-mask passengers.

L1011

Basically every airlines conditions of carriage now requires masks as well as many countries laws. There is an obvious exception for when eating/drinking so most passengers will not be wearing one the entire time.

You are on a hiding to nothing taking a case against the airline; good luck even proving the infection was actually on the aircraft.

PommieBast

L1011 wrote: »

600k a day sounds rather on the exaggerated (for pleading for cash off the Government) side based on their public accounts for 2019.

I think they are still finishing off some of the in-situ rebuilding which will have inflated the figures.


Luton's reputation for awful passenger experience will haunt them post-Covid.

Stevieluvsye

L1011 wrote: »

Basically every airlines conditions of carriage now requires masks as well as many countries laws. There is an obvious exception for when eating/drinking so most passengers will not be wearing one the entire time.

You are on a hiding to nothing taking a case against the airline; good luck even proving the infection was actually on the aircraft.

This.

It basically makes the requirement of wearing face covering a total waste of time. But common sense is a rarity these days.

I flew in October and had my face covering off for pretty much the entire flight

Tenger

Tig98 wrote: »

How is IFS working with regard selling food? Are pax allowed take off mask to eat/drink etc?

I have been in touch with 3 mates who are flight attendants in the US. 2 of them gave me the anecdote of a passengers sitting there for 2-3 hours with a packets of peanuts/sunflowers seeds purely in order to “be eating” so as to avoid mask wearing.
I find masks to be a pain but I’m not that much of a prick.

PommieBast wrote: »

Compared to my last flight a few months ago Aer Lingus on LHR-DUB have slackened their anti-Covid measures. Now putting people not travelling together next to each other and bought back in-flight service.
Economics kicking in

Aer Lingus have never had a stated policy of social distancing on board their flights. The only concession to this was putting an A330 on certain DUB-LHR-DUB flights.

Ryanair never suspended inflight service. If you are worried about it then an hour or so without a G&T/Cappucino shouldn’t be a bit sacrifice.

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

...............
I flew in October and had my face covering off for pretty much the entire flight

So you are openly admitting to a breach of airline policy which you personally signed up to. Nice.
<SNIP>

California Dreamer

Talking to a mate of mine today who lost his left seat after 15 years. Airline are being ruthless. A lot of very good flyers out there losing their jobs.

trellheim

Aer Lingus have never had a stated policy of social distancing on board their flights

Was there not a massive hoo-ha a while back when pictures surfaced of a belfast-london flight packed to the gills and there was huge apologies or did I miss it ?

Stevieluvsye

Tenger wrote: »

I have been in touch with 3 mates who are flight attendants in the US. 2 of them gave me the anecdote of a passengers sitting there for 2-3 hours with a packets of peanuts/sunflowers seeds purely in order to “be eating” so as to avoid mask wearing.
I find masks to be a pain but I’m not that much of a prick.

Aer Lingus have never had a stated policy of social distancing on board their flights. The only concession to this was putting an A330 on certain DUB-LHR-DUB flights.

Ryanair never suspended inflight service. If you are worried about it then an hour or so without a G&T/Cappucino shouldn’t be a bit sacrifice.



So you are openly admitting to a breach of airline policy which you personally signed up to. Nice.
<SNIP>

Quick to assume aren't you?

I was a flight for approx one hour. During that time i had my covering off, while i had a sandwich, two coffee's and one beer.

So am i breaching it? Would you like to retract your claim?