Covid-19; Impact on the aviation industry

Tenger

trellheim wrote: »

Was there not a massive hoo-ha a while back when pictures surfaced of a belfast-london flight packed to the gills and there was huge apologies or did I miss it ?

You are correct. This was back when EI (and other airlines) were seeing massive no-show numbers. (80-90%)
My belief was that all involved were caguht on the hop as over 100 passengers turned up (cant remember was an actual figure ever presented)
It was either the following day or the day after that EI began scheduling 2 aircraft on certain early morning flights in case of high numbers.

But apart from that there has never been a "middle seats empty" policy.


*as an aside my contempt for a person voluntarily flying and then complaining about too many people onboard (back when this was a lot more unknown and everyone was doing their best) is quite large.

bk

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

Quick to assume aren't you?

I was a flight for approx one hour. During that time i had my covering off, while i had a sandwich, two coffee's and one beer.

So am i breaching it? Would you like to retract your claim?

Really! You couldn't wait one hour to get on the ground to have your coffee/sandwich/beer?!

Instead you expose all the people around you to danger.

It is because of people like this that I believe flying simply isn't safe at the moment and I won't be back flying until the vaccine is widely distributed.

You can personally take every precaution, but then you are seated next to someone like this.......

It is the cabin crew I feel particularly bad for, having to deal with people like this, endangering their lives, while trying to hold onto their job.

Stevieluvsye

bk wrote: »

Really! You couldn't wait one hour to get on the ground to have your coffee/sandwich/beer?!

Instead you expose all the people around you to danger.

It is because of people like this that I believe flying simply isn't safe at the moment and I won't be back flying until the vaccine is widely distributed.

You can personally take every precaution, but then you are seated next to someone like this.......

It is the cabin crew I feel particularly bad for, having to deal with people like this, endangering their lives, while trying to hold onto their job.

So you are aiming this post at everyone who has bought some items on a flight i'll assume.

I happened to be tested a few days before i flew so there was no concerns with my health but again like your other mod friend you are just making assumptions that i could have had covid.

If you are so outraged, maybe vent it at the airlines who are providing food and drink.

Also, i'll refer to my previous post that i'd like tenger to aknowledge his assumptions.

Stevieluvsye

bk wrote: »

Really! You couldn't wait one hour to get on the ground to have your coffee/sandwich/beer?!

Instead you expose all the people around you to danger.

It is because of people like this that I believe flying simply isn't safe at the moment and I won't be back flying until the vaccine is widely distributed.

You can personally take every precaution, but then you are seated next to someone like this.......

It is the cabin crew I feel particularly bad for, having to deal with people like this, endangering their lives, while trying to hold onto their job.

Hyperbole also

goingnowhere

EI never had a block middle seat policy due COVID (well this is a long standing policy to keep it free if there is space but this is not in any way enforced by the IT)

EI has always had a policy to seat all passengers on the same reservation together where possible unlike one of its competitors who actively split up groups.

The general policy onboard was one of common sense, you wear a mask at all times unless it is obvious you cannot, so if you have need to eat/drink.

The busiest flight I have been on since Feb 29 (first case in IE) was 124 onboard a A320 in August, I did have two seats next to me empty, in fact on all flights I have made I had the 2 seats empty.

trellheim

Anonymize the airlines if you have to but can anyone give a rough idea of load factors on Ireland-UK flights at the moment and Ireland-Europe

PinOnTheRight

trellheim wrote: »

Anonymize the airlines if you have to but can anyone give a rough idea of load factors on Ireland-UK flights at the moment and Ireland-Europe

Not sure about load factors but there are currently around 25 flights going each way between the UK and Ireland each day, compared with close to 200 a day in normal times.

lintdrummer

trellheim wrote: »

Anonymize the airlines if you have to but can anyone give a rough idea of load factors on Ireland-UK flights at the moment and Ireland-Europe

Approx 65% both ways on an Ireland - UK flight today. No idea if that is average because I'm in work so infrequently these days.

GT89

bk wrote: »

Really! You couldn't wait one hour to get on the ground to have your coffee/sandwich/beer?!

Instead you expose all the people around you to danger.

It is because of people like this that I believe flying simply isn't safe at the moment and I won't be back flying until the vaccine is widely distributed.

You can personally take every precaution, but then you are seated next to someone like this.......

It is the cabin crew I feel particularly bad for, having to deal with people like this, endangering their lives, while trying to hold onto their job.

If that's the case though then food and drink should be banned on flights or at least on short haul flights and airlines should suspend their trolley service. Hint: they won't because obivously that would hurt their bottom line.

I'm guessing everyone on the flight had the choice as whether to fly or not in full knowledge of the assoicated risks and that includes the cabin crew. If the cabin crew or their family members are in a high risk category then they would likely be eligible for whatever furlough scheme their country has in place so it's not like they don't have a choice.

lintdrummer

GT89 wrote: »

If that's the case though then food and drink should be banned on flights or at least on short haul flights and airlines should suspend their trolley service. Hint: they won't because obivously that would hurt their bottom line.

Aer Lingus did suspend the inflight service for 8 months, it only resumed on the 1st of December.
You can't reasonably expect people not to eat or drink on a flight though. If you stopped people drinking they'd get dry throats and start coughing which would be an even worse scenario.

Tenzor07

bk wrote: »

Really! You couldn't wait one hour to get on the ground to have your coffee/sandwich/beer?!
Instead you expose all the people around you to danger.
It is because of people like this that I believe flying simply isn't safe at the moment and I won't be back flying until the vaccine is widely distributed.
You can personally take every precaution, but then you are seated next to someone like this.......
It is the cabin crew I feel particularly bad for, having to deal with people like this, endangering their lives, while trying to hold onto their job.

Wow quite dramatic I would say "Expose all the people around you to danger" "flying simply isn't safe" "endangering their lives"....sounds more like joining an aerial acrobatic flying team in training than hopping on a flight to London or somewhere..

Everyone on a flight is entitled to have a coffee and a snack if they should so wish and the rules allow the removal of the face covering to do so. I would like to think that if I drove from Donegal to Dublin to catch an 8am departure that I could do so.

As someone who has travelled every month on Ryanair from July to November on all flights I observed good mask compliance and never once felt my life was "In danger" when someone close by was having a snack or a drink...

Everyone's perception of Danger is different, however on all my flights over the past number of months I have to say everything went perfectly with those flights And I never once felt my "life was at risk" ... sometimes travelling with the same cabin crew on a few occasions..

donkey balls

California Dreamer wrote: »

Talking to a mate of mine today who lost his left seat after 15 years. Airline are being ruthless. A lot of very good flyers out there losing their jobs.

Sorry to hear that I know of 2 lads that lost their jobs one just got command before the crowd he was flying for went bust, The other was in the RHS.
Hopefully with this vacine things will turn around a lot quicker than the last recession.
Lads I work with and friends of mine are determined to get away next year.

opinionated3

I honestly believe there will be a massive rebound for the aviation industry sooner rather than later. All my friends and a lot of my work colleagues are already surfing the net for good holiday deals for next summer, some of them are eyeing up two trips away in the next year. It's clear o Leary is building up to it already so you can bet your bottom dollar that experts at LH, air France etc are hoping/expecting a significantly better year as this vaccine starts to become more widely distributed. LH is accelerating its redundancy programme worldwide unfortunately, but I believe that's a strategic move to position their company in readiness for the future. It's disappointing to hear people like prof Gerry Killeen claim that normality may not return for most of next year. That sort of rhetoric is off putting to those of us interested in taking off next year. Give me the vaccine and I'm outta here! ðŸ˜

trellheim

All my friends and a lot of my work colleagues are already surfing the net for good holiday deals for next summer, some of them are eyeing up two trips away in the next year.

Still no travel insurance cover, without it you can surf all you want

opinionated3

trellheim wrote: »

Still no travel insurance cover, without it you can surf all you want

Can you not get travel insurance if you get the vaccine?

Dublinflyer

opinionated3 wrote: »

Can you not get travel insurance if you get the vaccine?

According to what VHI told me is that with their insurance you still have the normal cover with the exception of covid related costs as it is no longer an unforeseen circumstance. So to me that says that if you have the vaccine and this gives you the protection it says you are good to travel.

trellheim

No-one is covering for travel insurance really. Here's Allianz's policy currently https://www.allianz-assistance.ie/

While the Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) has advised against all but essential travel indefinitely, you will not be covered under our travel insurance policies if you decide to go ahead with your trip.

Until the Govt pull back on the guidance and the companies change their policy, you are out of luck.

Edit : Since we are now in the traffic light scheme, essentially until the countries listed here https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/covid-19/situation-updates/weekly-maps-coordinated-restriction-free-movement

are in the green you aint goin nowhere with travel insurance. At time of writing there were no green countries, just a couple of regions.

Cookiemunster

trellheim wrote: »

Still no travel insurance cover, without it you can surf all you want

Practically nobody traveling within the EU purchases travel insurance. I've never done so. Its not an issue to most people. If you get sick your EHIC card will cover you.

trellheim

Practically nobody traveling within the EU purchases travel insurance. I've never done so. Its not an issue to most people. If you get sick your EHIC card will cover you.

Thats up to you of course ...

Nermal

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Practically nobody traveling within the EU purchases travel insurance. I've never done so. Its not an issue to most people. If you get sick your EHIC card will cover you.

Agreed. But in the winter, one has to leave the EU to get decent weather - Canaries aren't hot enough, really. Surely insurance must be available somewhere, that covers you even in the face of the travel advisory? Even at a high price?

VG31

trellheim wrote: »

Edit : Since we are now in the traffic light scheme, essentially until the countries listed here https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/covid-19/situation-updates/weekly-maps-coordinated-restriction-free-movement

are in the green you aint goin nowhere with travel insurance. At time of writing there were no green countries, just a couple of regions.

The whole EU is now "high degree of caution" on the DFA site so you will be covered by travel insurance within the EU. You don't have to wait for a country to be green or orange.

trellheim

And if you scroll down the page to the section : If you are considering travelling outside of Ireland:

In accordance with Government policy, which is based on official public health advice, the Department of Foreign Affairs continues to advise against non-essential travel overseas, other than to countries that are part of the EU ‘traffic lights’ approach, where the advice is to exercise a high degree of caution (this includes Great Britain but not Northern Ireland).

If you look at Allianz - one of the main travel insurers - link I put up they very clearly state "no insurance is available right now"

The traffic light link I put up above has no green countries per se.

Tenger

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

Quick to assume aren't you?

I was a flight for approx one hour. During that time i had my covering off, while i had a sandwich, two coffee's and one beer.

So am i breaching it? Would you like to retract your claim?

Have to agree with you regarding assumptions.
I certainly did made an assumption based on your initial post.

My interpretation of your "I had my mask off most of the flight" statement was that you were deliberately not wearing a mask. (There are quite a few knobs who exhibit this behaviour)

If you had of explained that you were partaking of beverages it would have presented the statement in a very different light.

So apologies for misinterpreting your somewhat vague (IMO) statement.



As an aside; 2 coffee and a beer on a 1 hour flight? I personally wouldn't take the risk of a rush to the loo scenario after landing.

scooby77

Mods posted this in vaccine forum, but thought might get different point of view here. Feel free to remove if inappropriate:
As vaccines roll out in some countries here's a real life query:
A close family member ( mid 30s, perfect health, no allergies, hasn't had covid she knows of, has had few pcrs for different reasons) is cabin crew ( not economy) with Emirates. She's due back flying shortly after period voluntary unpaid leave.
Sinopharm is now available free to all residents of Dubai- she qualifies. She has never been concerned about Covid, but as returning to work approaches, it has crossed her mind. She asked my advice re getting vaccine.
I'm pro vaccine, and think Chinese vaccine probably as safe as any(point 1). My main concern is that down the road Emirates might insist on staff taking a vaccine they provide...which could be different one...no testing done on interaction between different vaccines...but some say medically not advised, could possibly have serious consequences.(point 2) Though emirates have given no indication of a vaccine policy yet.
All opinions on either point welcome! Thanks in advance

Avoation1091

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/09/white-house-coronavirus-task-force-backs-restoration-of-inbound-travel-from-brazil-uk-and-europe-sources-say.html

Another update on the EU-US Travel ban.

Blut2

Avoation1091 wrote: »

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/09/white-house-coronavirus-task-force-backs-restoration-of-inbound-travel-from-brazil-uk-and-europe-sources-say.html

Another update on the EU-US Travel ban.

Great news for the aviation industry. Key part:

"The two sources involved in the discussion said that, if approved, it would be announced before Trump leaves office"

So hopefully by mid-January at the latest travel to the US will be more open.

billy few mates

Blut2 wrote: »

Great news for the aviation industry. Key part:

"The two sources involved in the discussion said that, if approved, it would be announced before Trump leaves office"

That could be another four years away...

WishUWereHere

billy few mates wrote: »

That could be another four years away...

Noooooo please spare us😎

Cookiemunster

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Practically nobody traveling within the EU purchases travel insurance. I've never done so. Its not an issue to most people. If you get sick your EHIC card will cover you.

It won’t cover repatriation. I always get annual worldwide holiday insurance. It’s peace of mind and not very expensive.

Hotblack Desiato

opinionated3 wrote: »

I honestly believe there will be a massive rebound for the aviation industry sooner rather than later.

For leisure travel yeah, business probably not so much.