Covid-19; Impact on the aviation industry

Masala

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Won't be suprising but Ryanair have announced this morning the cancellation of virtually all their flights until July.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/1135969/

MOL taking a 50% pay cut.... are we supposed to be impressed.?

WishUWereHere

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Won't be suprising but Ryanair have announced this morning the cancellation of virtually all their flights until July.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/1135969/

I also came across the following:

https://grapevine.is/news/2020/04/29/dark-days-for-icelandair-layoffs-losses-possibility-of-government-takeover-floated/

I'm no expert, but 2,000 people laid off in a population the size of Iceland is nothing short of catastrophic.

Seriously dark days ahead for the airline industry.

Irish Steve

Masala wrote: »

MOL taking a 50% pay cut.... are we supposed to be impressed.?

I'd be more impressed by MOL than I am by some of the prima donnas of the Premier League who are insisting that their overinflated salaries have to be paid in full despite them doing nothing to earn them.

MJohnston

Irish Steve wrote: »

I'd be more impressed by MOL than I am by some of the prima donnas of the Premier League who are insisting that their overinflated salaries have to be paid in full despite them doing nothing to earn them.

MOL has a job for life as a CEO, sportspeople often have a very small window to earn enough to do then for their entire lives. I still think Premier League wages are massively inflated, but it’s not like for like.

NH2013

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0501/1136063-aer-lingus-jobs-cuts/

900 Jobs to be permenantly cut at Aer Lingus over COVID-19 and the current recession.

Nijmegen

€100m in losses for the 3 months to end of June, ie during the teeth of the lockdown, is actually pretty good going for Ryanair I’d say. I doubt refunds are in there tho so it may mask their underlying cash position (though they’re clearly stringing out refunds saying it’ll take a few months to get March processed), but if he’s got about €3.9bn in cash back in January it makes sense for them to crib about state aid. They can make it through and then hope for more profits in a whittled down market.

crisco10

Tenger wrote: »

Absolutely. It's easy to discuss this when you aren't owned a pile of cash.
I had 1 flight booked but it is under €200. I'm happy to take a voucher +10% as I know I will fly with them again. (Aer Lingus to LHR)

Far different situation if you are laid off/cut in salary and have 500 or more booked with an airline. Hence why I think they have to maintain an option for cash refund. Incentivise the voucher route by all means, but don't stop cash refunds.

I'm feeling happy that the family holiday hadn't yet been booked.

Absolutely. We have €2.5k of flights with Finnair awaiting refund for a far east trip last month. A voucher for Finnair is pretty useless to me. Not least because my daughter will no longer be under 2 if we did decide to re-organise the trip, and the timing won't suit us as well. And in current environment who knows when we will travel long haul again anyway.

donkey balls

Was sent a link with the cuts for BA staff both for LHR&LGW the flight crews currently all fleets 4346 down to 3216.
They list CC engineering ground ops head office and call center staff.

smurfjed

@donkey_balls, how are they doing this ? LIFO?

donkey balls

smurfjed wrote: »

@donkey_balls, how are they doing this ? LIFO?

I'm not sure was just sent a link about total staff between both bases the CC are broken down between the 2 bases along with ground ops etc.
Flight deck crew have not being broken down between the 2 bases but are done as a whole.

donkey balls

smurfjed wrote: »

@donkey_balls, how are they doing this ? LIFO?

I'm not sure was just sent a link about total staff between both bases the CC are broken down between the 2 bases along with ground ops etc.
Flight deck crew have not being broken down between the 2 bases but are done as a whole.

Locker10a

smurfjed wrote: »

@donkey_balls, how are they doing this ? LIFO?

I’ve seen the letter that says the company are considering an “assessment” based option I assume this would me competency based on training files and/or some form of sim check, bit of a slap in the face and additional worry for an already bruised and deflated work force

billy few mates

smurfjed wrote: »

@donkey_balls, how are they doing this ? LIFO?

I'll be shocked if they use anything other than seniority to decide who stays and who goes, BA is BALPA territory and the seniority list is the cornerstone of their raison d'etre...

Foggy43

billy few mates wrote: »

I'll be shocked if they use anything other than seniority to decide who stays and who goes, BA is BALPA territory and the seniority list is the cornerstone of their raison d'etre...

In UK law that could be seen as discrimination.

https://www.gov.uk/staff-redundant/compulsory-redundancy

Of course when the redundancy issue is hammered out between union and company reps, the agreement that is come too can leave confusion with employees.

billy few mates

Foggy43 wrote: »

In UK law that could be seen as discrimination.

https://www.gov.uk/staff-redundant/compulsory-redundancy

Of course when the redundancy issue is hammered out between union and company reps, the agreement that is come too can leave confusion with employees.

Not really, your position on the seniority list is an indication of your start date, no one on the seniority list above you will have started in the company after you so it's basically last in first out and has been used in the past at other airlines where BALPA holds sway...

Inquitus

billy few mates wrote: »

Not really, your position on the seniority list is an indication of your start date, no one on the seniority list above you will have started in the company after you so it's basically last in first out and has been used in the past at other airlines where BALPA holds sway...

Using LIFO maximises the cost to the company undertaking the redundancies by offering it to those with the longest tenure, and hence the largest payments due. Do the likes of Aer Lingus give the general Irish standard of 4/5 weeks company + 2 weeks statutory for every year? or do the Union negotiate a better deal?

Kcormahs

billy few mates wrote: »

Not really, your position on the seniority list is an indication of your start date, no one on the seniority list above you will have started in the company after you so it's basically last in first out and has been used in the past at other airlines where BALPA holds sway...

Thats not accurate. in Aer lingus there are cabin crew with only two years flying who were working in check-in etc previously for 10years+.
they lost their seniority number when they applied internally and crew who have been flying for 3+ would be more ‘senior’ to them. however the former groundstaff date of entry still the same when they started in Aer Lingus. I would assume they wouldnt be let go before the others only because they have 2 years of flying/lost seniority when moved internally. could be wrong though.

trellheim

Would you not see a voluntary package first

billy few mates

Kcormahs wrote: »

Thats not accurate. in Aer lingus there are cabin crew with only two years flying who were working in check-in etc previously for 10years+.
they lost their seniority number when they applied internally and crew who have been flying for 3+ would be more ‘senior’ to them. however the former groundstaff date of entry still the same when they started in Aer Lingus. I would assume they wouldnt be let go before the others only because they have 2 years of flying/lost seniority when moved internally. could be wrong though.

We were talking about BA, I don't know anything about Aer Lingus but BALPA are really only involved with the pilots in UK airlines.

Tenger

trellheim wrote: »

Would you not see a voluntary package first

One wonders what the offer (if any) is.

A BA cabin crew mate has indicated to be that its is very much a "smash and grab" by BA mgmt.
I'm guessing that BA wanted to have a single unified fleet for quite a few years now.
I'm guessing the EI situation of all cabin crew in a reduced size single group operating to FTLs is the goal.


Just as regards Aer Lingus ground staff transferring yo cabin crew.
A few years ago it was an internal transfer (thus keeping company wide seniority) But I've been told over the last 2-3 those staff had to "resign" as ground staff and rejoin as cabin crew.

billy few mates

Kcormahs wrote: »

Thats not accurate. in Aer lingus there are cabin crew with only two years flying who were working in check-in etc previously for 10years+.
they lost their seniority number when they applied internally and crew who have been flying for 3+ would be more ‘senior’ to them. however the former groundstaff date of entry still the same when they started in Aer Lingus. I would assume they wouldnt be let go before the others only because they have 2 years of flying/lost seniority when moved internally. could be wrong though.

We were talking about BA, I don't know anything about Aer Lingus but BALPA are really only involved with the pilots in UK airlines.

opinionated3

Some unbelievably negative news items doing the rounds this morning on our media outlets. Newstalk, rte news app.....etc basically our choice of destinations is going to be decimated and the price of flights will be back at 1980s level.

Tenzor07

NAS look like they have been given a lifeline, though are still very much on life support, and will most likely go into hibernation and become a small regional nordic airline:


https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0504/1136404-norwegian-air-shareholders-back-survival-plan/

donkey balls

https://flyinginireland.com/2020/04/aer-lingus-to-outsource-catering-to-dnata/

This is whats on offer to the catering staff

Masala

Jeez... the outlook for the west coast of Ireland going to be bleek for the next year. Knock, Shannon, Kerry and cork have so much overseas traffic ... and subject to what Ryanair decide to do.

Gonna be hard to keep staff on the books with no income coming in. Income like car park revenue, shop, bar and food and all those franchisees income gonna be decimated. Never mind the loss in aircraft charges as result of a fall of probably 70% in aircraft movements when this is all over.

pm.

I'm due to fly to LAX on 1st August with EI, do you think this will be a possibility?

Tenger

pm. wrote: »

I'm due to fly to LAX on 1st August with EI, do you think this will be a possibility?

No way to give you a solid answer. EI may not know themselves.
I would expect their TA schedule to increase from the current 3 routes in July.
But I can’t see a “full schedule” in place by Aug 1st.
SFO was a busier route than LAX so I’m going to guess that it returns before LA?

Elaine762

donkey balls wrote: »

https://flyinginireland.com/2020/04/aer-lingus-to-outsource-catering-to-dnata/

This is whats on offer to the catering staff

This offer was taken away when the whole crisis started

Tenger

Elaine762 wrote: »

This offer was taken away when the whole crisis started

The newspaper article about the DNATA deal was only published 7-10 days ago.
April 26th; https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/dubai-giant-to-take-over-aer-lingus-catering-39155731.html

The “whole crisis” has been ongoing for a lot longer than that, EI put their staff on 50% in mid March. I’m guessing the 900 job cuts decision was in the pipeline before April 25th.

easypazz

Masala wrote: »

Jeez... the outlook for the west coast of Ireland going to be bleek for the next year. Knock, Shannon, Kerry and cork have so much overseas traffic ... and subject to what Ryanair decide to do.

Gonna be hard to keep staff on the books with no income coming in. Income like car park revenue, shop, bar and food and all those franchisees income gonna be decimated. Never mind the loss in aircraft charges as result of a fall of probably 70% in aircraft movements when this is all over.

Some of them might close permanently. Impossible to know really.