Covid-19; Impact on the aviation industry

cson

MickeyLeari wrote: »

Still not paying out cash owed to customers,

That's a cash flow management strategy, and its not unique to Aer Lingus.

Tenger

MickeyLeari wrote: »

Absolutely - 2 weeks later. Still not paying out cash owed to customers, saying they will reduce wages to 30%, publicly stating they are in survival mode and in all this continuing to take bookings for flights they are unlikely to run.

If it was anyone else people would rightfully be asking serious questions.

If you can fact check any of what I said please let me know.

Except of course all the customers who are asking questions about refunds on their social media. And such noteworthy citizens rights champions as yourself.

Why only ask about EI when most Euro airlines are dragging their feet regarding refunds rather than vouchers? Didn't FR already state that refunds can't be processed as those staff are stuck at home?

LXFlyer

cson wrote: »

That's a cash flow management strategy, and its not unique to Aer Lingus.

Also just to point out every single refund to a credit/debit card has to be done manually on an individual basis, due to security measures that the card providers have in place.

It cannot be done through an automated process.

That is going to take time unfortunately.

MickeyLeari

Tenger wrote: »

Except of course all the customers who are asking questions about refunds on their social media. And such noteworthy citizens rights champions as yourself.

Why only ask about EI when most Euro airlines are dragging their feet regarding refunds rather than vouchers? Didn't FR already state that refunds can't be processed as those staff are stuck at home?

I quite frankly do not care about the other airlines. Aer Lingus have owed me a voucher now for 14 weeks. That’s not acceptable and is inexcusable at this stage. So now I want my cash back.

murphaph

Tenger wrote: »

Except of course all the customers who are asking questions about refunds on their social media. And such noteworthy citizens rights champions as yourself.

Why only ask about EI when most Euro airlines are dragging their feet regarding refunds rather than vouchers? Didn't FR already state that refunds can't be processed as those staff are stuck at home?

I might, just might be able to understand this argument if Aer Lingus wasn't allowing people to book flights the airline knew damn well it would never fly.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/hbxc08/aer_lingus_shady_practice_alert/?sort=confidence

That's akin to fraud.

I was also left swinging in the wind waiting for a refund from Aer Lingus (not my job to bail out an airline. If the state deems them of systemic importance, enough to bail out then let the state do it).

I got fed up with the platitudes and instigated a chargeback which my bank managed to process in one week, despite this being an entirely manual process requiring paper based evidence to be sent into support my claim.

The banks are processing chargebacks quickly so I don't buy it that the airlines can't process refunds more quickly than they are. It's quite deliberate.

MickeyLeari

LXFlyer wrote: »

Also just to point out every single refund to a credit/debit card has to be done manually on an individual basis, due to security measures that the card providers have in place.

It cannot be done through an automated process.

That is going to take time unfortunately.

American Airlines refunded in one day.

MickeyLeari

cson wrote: »

That's a cash flow management strategy, and its not unique to Aer Lingus.

No it is fraud. I will be making a complaint to the ODCE. Whether they investigate it is a different matter.

Sheep Shagger

MickeyLeari wrote: »

I quite frankly do not care about the other airlines. Aer Lingus have owed me a voucher now for 14 weeks. That’s not acceptable and is inexcusable at this stage. So now I want my cash back.

I don't know why people are ****ing around with vouchers, waiting, small claims court and the like. Just go down the charge back route. Plain and simple.

Has anyone had a charge back refused as from what I can see it is the most effective way of getting your money back.

HTCOne

MickeyLeari wrote: »

American Airlines refunded in one day.

They got their share of a $29 billion bailout, are you advocating EI get a tax payer bailout? As that would be the opposite of what your namesake wants.

Gekko

Dub-LCY looks like it will be back at low frequency in third week of July going by BA availability

Also suggested by LCY in a post on its website

Good for avoiding bigger airports with more people milling around them

fr336

1123heavy wrote: »

Whether this disease suffers a resurgence or not, people will be going on holidays. Everyone has had enough and countries are bursting at the seams with trouble. Lockdown has gone on for too long, if they try to put a second lockdown on with a second wave the compliance rates will be much lower, this virus is something we're just going to have to learn to live with.

It is very much similar to post 9/11, we never eliminated terrorism but we did manage the risks and take necessary precautions. Something similar will happen with this virus going forward, we won't ever get to a stage where there are 0 cases on the planet, much like how we never got to a point where we have 0 terrorists. All it takes is 1 uncontrolled case and the whole planet is at risk, it cannot be eradicated 100% and the sooner we accept that the sooner we can go back to normal life.

I get the 9/11 comparison but I would have been 100% more willing to take a plane post 9/11 to now, especially when people like Ryanair I seem to remember were offering rock bottom prices. Nobody was getting a weapon on board a plane or into the cockpit post 9/11. The risk of another attack, especially in Europe, was pretty much zero. Whereas with Covid, even with masks and other precautions, it is still a risk to be in a confined space with over a hundred strangers for a long period of time. As the anti maskers never tire of pointing out, masks can't protect you 100% but if everyone is wearing one it certainly diminishes the risks hugely. I think rather than accepting it we will just get used to things being different. But it will be a long haul and the amount of pax coming back won't be enough to make things better economically for the airlines I wouldn't think.

BZ

https://paxex.aero/2020/06/british-airways-747-fleet-pilot-training-suspended-2/

Could it be a sign of the end of an era of the B747 at BA?

Captain_Crash

BZ wrote: »

https://paxex.aero/2020/06/british-airways-747-fleet-pilot-training-suspended-2/

Could it be a sign of the end of an era of the B747 at BA?

Yeah. By all accounts it’s time is up. Initially they were to keep 18 until 2024 in a high J confit purely for LHR-JFK, now it appears it’s game over for the Queen at BA.

Nibs05

BZ wrote: »

https://paxex.aero/2020/06/british-airways-747-fleet-pilot-training-suspended-2/

Could it be a sign of the end of an era of the B747 at BA?

G-BYGC (BOAC Livery ) was flown to Cardiff for storage today, so it’s possible

Tenger

MickeyLeari wrote: »

I quite frankly do not care about the other airlines. Aer Lingus have owed me a voucher now for 14 weeks. That’s not acceptable and is inexcusable at this stage. So now I want my cash back.

Thanks for the clarity on the tone of your posts over the last 7 weeks. That's answers some questions.

As stated above banks are processing charge backs requests. Regarding your refund, talking here won't get it to you.
As I've stated previously some ppl are able to rebook/voucher their original booking, but for many ppl a large airline expense needs to refunded as revenue has been reduced.

trellheim

Good for avoiding bigger airports with more people milling around them

LCY is by FAR the worst airport for clogged passageways and hallways with terrible air conditioning

L1011

trellheim wrote: »

LCY is by FAR the worst airport for clogged passageways and hallways with terrible air conditioning

Last time I was there, I felt they were trying to use it for a new 'most people in a [small thing]' world record, seeing as original Minis are about as rare as phoneboxes these days. Took about three trips around the entire terminal to find a single seat!

Sheep Shagger

L1011 wrote: »

Last time I was there, I felt they were trying to use it for a new 'most people in a [small thing]' world record, seeing as original Minis are about as rare as phoneboxes these days. Took about three trips around the entire terminal to find a single seat!

People rave about how good the airport is, which granted it is (distance from security to gate etc) but **** me if you are delayed and invariably as soon as there is fog you will be.

Caranica

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

People rave about how good the airport is, which granted it is (distance from security to gate etc) but **** me if you are delayed and invariably as soon as there is fog you will be.

Not forgetting the most expensive non specialist bar of any UK airport I've ever been in. But it's still my favourite airport, doesn't attract a certain element of unpleasant travellers.

Sheep Shagger

Caranica wrote: »

Not forgetting the most expensive non specialist bar of any UK airport I've ever been in. But it's still my favourite airport, doesn't attract a certain element of unpleasant travellers.

Predominantly business not leisure travellers.

'Duty free' is pretty **** compared to LHR and LGW too (particularly Dixons!).

Gekko

trellheim wrote: »

LCY is by FAR the worst airport for clogged passageways and hallways with terrible air conditioning

They will have figured out boarding processes to mitigate that I reckon, and there will be fewer flights operating anyway

Try LHR T5 on a hot day and see how stuffy that is - as I did twice the week before lockdown

LCY is good because you can get through it quickly both ways and as long as you go outside peak times you don’t encounter many people

As for fog risks, I used it a lot over the past several years and I think I only encountered one fog delay.

Also, smaller planes operate to LCY so *in theory* there should be fewer people on the plane - unlike a 737 or A320

L1011

Caranica wrote: »

But it's still my favourite airport, doesn't attract a certain element of unpleasant travellers.

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Predominantly business not leisure travellers.

Back when I worked in London, the Friday evening sun routes had plenty of a different type of unpleasant passenger. Being in the half of an EJet/RJ85 not full of Colombian is not a nice experience.

Van.Bosch

During the kick down there has been limited flights from EI & FR obviously. LHR & AMS have been operated daily and given the passenger numbers to these cities in normal times it makes sense to me.

FR seem to have been operating Lisbon daily for a while now, obviously Lisbon isn’t a small market or anything but not one I would have seen as being that in demand? Does anyone know the deal? Is it Irish using it to get to second homes in Portugal etc?

WishUWereHere

Van.Bosch wrote: »

During the kick down there has been limited flights from EI & FR obviously. LHR & AMS have been operated daily and given the passenger numbers to these cities in normal times it makes sense to me.

FR seem to have been operating Lisbon daily for a while now, obviously Lisbon isn’t a small market or anything but not one I would have seen as being that in demand? Does anyone know the deal? Is it Irish using it to get to second homes in Portugal etc?

Purely my guesswork: Prior to the lockdown, there were up to 6 flights a day from Dublin to Lisbon. I suspect that FR discovered there was still enough business to keep one plane going?

Also, and here I'm not sure, but isn't there a 'bubble' between Ireland and Portugal? And yes, I also think the 2nd home reasoning You mention, might also be a factor.

I must stress though, that's purely my speculation.

IngazZagni

All of that and also there are lots of Portuguese and Brazilians who work in Ireland. Many of whom have been returning back and forth due to lack of work and visa issues.

Sheep Shagger

Business Post today has an interview with Willie Walsh (paywall).

He's saying IAG may need to carve out some airlines so individual governments can give bail outs to certain airlines.

MickeyLeari

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Business Post today has an interview with Willie Walsh (paywall).

He's saying IAG may need to carve out some airlines so individual governments can give bail outs to certain airlines.

Not surprising.

Sheep Shagger

MickeyLeari wrote: »

Not surprising.

Nope, it also says IAG has 9 months worth of cash left based on current income and expenditure.

Tenger

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Nope, it also says IAG has 9 months worth of cash left based on current income and expenditure.

Exhausting your warchest while rivals get state aid isnt a great move going forward. That warchest is for acquisitions later on.
Better to negotiate for state aid from a strong position rather than beg like some of your rivals. This protects your cash reserves which give you resilience compared to others.

MickeyLeari

Tenger wrote: »

Exhausting your warchest while rivals get state aid isnt a great move going forward. That warchest is for acquisitions later on.
Better to negotiate for state aid from a strong position rather than beg like some of your rivals. This protects your cash reserves which give you resilience compared to others.

Pressure will mount shortly on the Irish Government.

I wonder is Lufthansa creating the model with Brussels Airlines?