Covid-19; Impact on the aviation industry

Noxegon

kona wrote: »

Stops gowls shoving themselves all over other passengers mid flight rummaging in overhead bins for something they dont really need.

For what it's worth, my laptop bag does not fit within the dimensions Ryanair allow for under a seat, and as such I can only fly with Ryanair when the two cabin bag option is available.

I can't legally put my laptop in the hold (not that I would anyway) as it has a non-removable battery.

L1011

Noxegon wrote: »

For what it's worth, my laptop bag does not fit within the dimensions Ryanair allow for under a seat, and as such I can only fly with Ryanair when the two cabin bag option is available.

I can't legally put my laptop in the hold (not that I would anyway) as it has a non-removable battery.

How large is your laptop? :eek:

Most modern business laptops have impractical to remove batteries, so they really don't have many that can go in anymore

Noxegon

L1011 wrote: »

How large is your laptop? :eek:

Most modern business laptops have impractical to remove batteries, so they really don't have many that can go in anymore

35x24cm. The bag has a few centimetres of padding which puts the short dimension outside the 40x20x25 Ryanair allow.

MickeyLeari

HTCOne wrote: »

But the whole point of the air bridge concept is people from each country can only travel to countries on the list, one country can’t let in the yanks for example while all the others don’t, as they’ll be then booted off the green list.

Is that the real reason why we can’t green list now?

x567

Good analysis from Naomi O’Leary in the Irish Times: https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/naomi-o-leary-ireland-s-travel-policy-curbed-by-britain-1.4299320

x567

And Newcastle airport might need a bigger car park...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jul/08/scotland-to-keep-14-day-quarantine-for-travellers-from-spain

HTCOne

MickeyLeari wrote: »

Is that the real reason why we can’t green list now?

As in are we letting Americans in? If that’s what you mean then the answer is no, I believe there’s been an EU wide ban on the entry of Americans who do not hold EU citizenship or a residency / work permit for a few months now.

California Dreamer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=9Sku0HFaWDc&feature=emb_title

Nice little video from the Ryan people!

bk

HTCOne wrote: »

As in are we letting Americans in? If that’s what you mean then the answer is no, I believe there’s been an EU wide ban on the entry of Americans who do not hold EU citizenship or a residency / work permit for a few months now.

That ban only applies to Schengen EU countries, which unfortunately we aren't part of. So, yes, folks from the US can travel here. Though they are supposed to go into 14 day quarantine then. Which of course isn't really enforced....

Blut2

bk wrote: »

That ban only applies to Schengen EU countries, which unfortunately we aren't part of. So, yes, folks from the US can travel here. Though they are supposed to go into 14 day quarantine then. Which of course isn't really enforced....

Huge numbers of people aren't even answering the phone to the HSE when they call to check if they're quarantining. And no fines have been issued to date for it:

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0625/1149599-coronavirus-self-isolation/

The whole Irish quarantine thing is just optics, its not being enforced at all.

HTCOne

bk wrote: »

That ban only applies to Schengen EU countries, which unfortunately we aren't part of. So, yes, folks from the US can travel here. Though they are supposed to go into 14 day quarantine then. Which of course isn't really enforced....

Well if that’s correct then it makes the current travel ban even more pointless than Dr. Lambert says.

bk

California Dreamer wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=9Sku0HFaWDc&feature=emb_title

Nice little video from the Ryan people!

An incredibly poor video with lots of misinformation!

First of all they blather on about HEPA filters and AC, but we know from the scientific research into this that the top to bottom type AC actually helps virus like SARS actually spread more widely then it would in a normal indoor environment!

AC going bottom to top would actually be safer, but it isn't designed that way. Needs to happen for future aircraft.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/scientists-think-they-know-ways-to-combat-viruses-on-airplanes-theyre-too-late-for-this-pandemic/2020/04/20/83279318-76ab-11ea-87da-77a8136c1a6d_story.html

They then go on about how they thoroughly clean the aircraft every night. But of course, no cleaning/disinfection between each turn around!

bk

HTCOne wrote: »

Well if that’s correct then it makes the current travel ban even more pointless than Dr. Lambert says.

I have to laugh when I see people saying this. In particular the airline industry.

On the one hand, they say it is pointless. But on the other hand they seem desperate to remove it. Why so desperate to remove it if it is pointless?

The truth of the matter is, it does work. Most folks in the US will just look, see that there is a 14 day quarantine and not think that they could break it and just decide to not travel.

Also with a "do not travel" advisory in place in the US, there travel insurance and health insurance would be null and void if they do travel, so big risk there.

Of course some small number of people from the US might ignore both of the above and decide to still travel. But overall the numbers travelling are vastly less then they would otherwise be and this public health stuff is all a numbers game in the end.

Of course we could and probably should do it better. Complete ban on travel from the US, etc. or perhaps properly enforced quarantine like Australia has now put in place, bus'd from plane to Hotel for a proper 14 day quarantine.

Just because our quarantine isn't perfect, doesn't mean we should just throw it away. If we find we need to, we can certainly make it stricter and the Minister of Travel has already mentioned that they are looking into that.

HTCOne

bk wrote: »

I have to laugh when I see people saying this. In particular the airline industry.

On the one hand, they say it is pointless. But on the other hand they seem desperate to remove it. Why so desperate to remove it if it is pointless?

The truth of the matter is, it does work. Most folks in the US will just look, see that there is a 14 day quarantine and not think that they could break it and just decide to not travel.

Also with a "do not travel" advisory in place in the US, there travel insurance and health insurance would be null and void if they do travel, so big risk there.

Of course some small number of people from the US might ignore both of the above and decide to still travel. But overall the numbers travelling are vastly less then they would otherwise be and this public health stuff is all a numbers game in the end.

Of course we could and probably should do it better. Complete ban on travel from the US, etc. or perhaps properly enforced quarantine like Australia has now put in place, bus'd from plane to Hotel for a proper 14 day quarantine.

Just because our quarantine isn't perfect, doesn't mean we should just throw it away. If we find we need to, we can certainly make it stricter and the Minister of Travel has already mentioned that they are looking into that.

You’re entitled to your view of course, unfortunately the WHO disagrees, saying travel bans are pointless once the virus is in the community, as does the Doctor here who was in charge of COVID treatment in the worst affected hospital by COVID in the country.

Hopefully the totally ignorable quarantine gets lifted next week anyway. As Dr. Jack says, we’re going to have to get used to living with this virus for a couple of years at least. Wash your hands, wear a mask, social distance etc and it doesn’t matter where you are.

California Dreamer

bk wrote: »

An incredibly poor video with lots of misinformation!

I suggest that you stick to your own forums and moderate those. :D:D

This is the flying forum where any kind of subject matter widely accepted as being truthful and honest but most of all its got pictures of shiny metal tubes that go up in the air and we all go ooooooh!!!!! :rolleyes::p;)

Inquitus

bk wrote: »

An incredibly poor video with lots of misinformation!

First of all they blather on about HEPA filters and AC, but we know from the scientific research into this that the top to bottom type AC actually helps virus like SARS actually spread more widely then it would in a normal indoor environment!

AC going bottom to top would actually be safer, but it isn't designed that way. Needs to happen for future aircraft.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/scientists-think-they-know-ways-to-combat-viruses-on-airplanes-theyre-too-late-for-this-pandemic/2020/04/20/83279318-76ab-11ea-87da-77a8136c1a6d_story.html

They then go on about how they thoroughly clean the aircraft every night. But of course, no cleaning/disinfection between each turn around!

Mark Forkner who famously misled the FAA on the 737-Max was previously a Ryanair Instructor, not sure I'd trust anything out of Ryanair myself!

stephenjmcd

NI removing quarantine for low and medium risk countries, list to be announced. Makes our approach pretty redundant now, more pressure to come on government one would assume

Jack1985

stephenjmcd wrote: »

NI removing quarantine for low and medium risk countries, list to be announced. Makes our approach pretty redundant now, more pressure to come on government one would assume

The DUP and the Shinners with the lead (which will see quarantine in Ireland circumvented through BFS/BHD), embarrassing :rolleyes:

Nijmegen

This probably isn’t going to help aviation if it keeps happening. 15 of 23 cases notified today associated with overseas travel and the R rate is at or above 1.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1281278965026619392?s=21

Jack1985

Nijmegen wrote: »

This probably isn’t going to help aviation if it keeps happening. 15 of 23 cases notified today associated with overseas travel and the R rate is at or above 1.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1281278965026619392?s=21

Where's the specification of what type of travel, from what country etc - We need data to work with before making generalised comments.

MickeyLeari

HTCOne wrote: »

As in are we letting Americans in? If that’s what you mean then the answer is no, I believe there’s been an EU wide ban on the entry of Americans who do not hold EU citizenship or a residency / work permit for a few months now.

The point I was making was that if we are to join the EU green lane are we required to stop US passengers?

Nijmegen

Jack1985 wrote: »

Where's the specification of what type of travel, from what country etc - We need data to work with before making generalised comments.

I’d say the public health officials who’ve been banging on about not travelling will be providing all that sort of data along with their recommendations in a few days time, I’m no more privy to the information than what I’m reading from the press conferences.

But to say that this is not a negative portent for what’s to come on 20 July I think might be wishful.

Limpy

Nijmegen wrote: »

This probably isn’t going to help aviation if it keeps happening. 15 of 23 cases notified today associated with overseas travel and the R rate is at or above 1.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1281278965026619392?s=21

One Iraqi infected his whole family, that figure could be one traveller infecting his family the same way. We need the proper stats to offer better context.

bk

Plus the news coming out of Greece not looking good. Over 100 cases there related to travel since they opened up. They have closed travel from the Balkan countries again and have delayed the reopening of travel with the UK for at least another two weeks.

Jack1985

Context has been missing with regard to travel throughout - Nobody can dispute data, show it to us instead of making generalised comments.

Nijmegen

Limpy wrote: »

One Iraqi infected his whole family, that figure could be one traveller infecting his family the same way. We need the proper stats to offer better context.

And they have been good at releasing the supplementary data around clusters etc over a period of days.

My understanding is that if you came back and infected your family, your case would be associated with travel but the family as close contacts. If you infected your town and it wasn’t contact traced to you, it’s community infection.

So my understanding is that 15 cases related to travel means 15 people who they believe didn’t catch the virus in Ireland, they travelled in with it.

And another datapoint... most counties now have new cases after a long run without any for many.

https://twitter.com/higginsdavidw/status/1281284398931939328?s=21

Van.Bosch

Jack1985 wrote: »

Context has been missing with regard to travel throughout - Nobody can dispute data, show it to us instead of making generalised comments.

Spot on - those 15 could be Irish citizens coming home. It still is travel bringing the virus in but are we ever going to stop Irish citizens coming home? No, so give the context, if it’s 15 lads who went to Amsterdam on the lash - give the context. “Travel” Is too broad.

stephenjmcd

Nijmegen wrote: »

And they have been good at releasing the supplementary data around clusters etc over a period of days.

My understanding is that if you came back and infected your family, your case would be associated with travel but the family as close contacts. If you infected your town and it wasn’t contact traced to you, it’s community infection.

So my understanding is that 15 cases related to travel means 15 people who they believe didn’t catch the virus in Ireland, they travelled in with it.

And another datapoint... most counties now have new cases after a long run without any for many.

https://twitter.com/higginsdavidw/status/1281284398931939328?s=21

Its 15 travel related cases, from watching the press conferences these also covers those who were close contacts of people who traveled in. If I travel into Ireland and have it and a close contact tests postive its noted as travel related as I brought it in.

Its a vague term but from what was said thats my understanding

MickeyLeari

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Its 15 travel related cases, from watching the press conferences these also covers those who were close contacts of people who traveled in. If I travel into Ireland and have it and a close contact tests postive its noted as travel related as I brought it in.

Its a vague term but from what was said thats my understanding

That is my understanding but I think we are facing another lock down. That will atop people taking holidays.

Nijmegen

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Spot on - those 15 could be Irish citizens coming home. It still is travel bringing the virus in but are we ever going to stop Irish citizens coming home? No, so give the context, if it’s 15 lads who went to Amsterdam on the lash - give the context. “Travel” Is too broad.

This was posted a few pages back. New Zealand is doing precisely that - it is limiting the number of its own citizens who can return to the country per day.