Covid-19; Impact on the aviation industry

donkey balls

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Now is a good time to introduce a green levy on the carriers, the airport and the consumers.suggest 8% moving to 10% next year

And what would we do with the monies from this levy?

Beechwoodspark

donkey balls wrote: »

And what would we do with the monies from this levy?

Invest in the future - carbon neutral aviation

gral6

donkey balls wrote: »

And what would we do with the monies from this levy?

We'll get some tax credits to buy more bikes. Eamon Ryan will be pleased

Cookiemunster

donkey balls wrote: »

And what would we do with the monies from this levy?

A better question would be what monies would we get when nobody is flying. I'd ignore him as he wants the aviation industry shut down due to its miniscule affects on global warming, and taxing the arse of the industry when it's on its knees is a great way to do it.

kevinandrew

The committee was infuriating viewing at times, the "Shannon lobby" in particular would have you believe there's a conspiracy against poor auld Shannon. One TD asking why Aer Lingus didn't minibus Shannon crew up and down to Dublin to keep them employed!

Both Eddie Wilson and Sean Doyle were united on pretty much every point; the need for testing, the lack of support for the industry and Ireland's continued outlier position on regarding travel and tourism.

Nijmegen

gral6 wrote: »

No one is forcing you to fly, stay home and save lives

Oh what I mean is that Ryanair's brand and business seems impervious over time to screwing the customers over. It seemed to stumble growth a little some time ago, but in the post-Covid smaller aviation industry and presumably a recession people will flee to price and Ryanair will win back customers. Every social media post they put out today is met with "Where's my refund?" but I'd bet those same "I'll never travel with them again" crowd will, in fact, travel again with them when the time is right.

Cookiemunster

gral6 wrote: »

****ing FF! They are killing Irish aviation industry !

And FG. And the Greens. Remember that neither of the big parties is dominant, so they both carry any blame equally. And the Greens are anti aviation by policy.

Beechwoodspark

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Invest in the future - carbon neutral aviation

This poster is a Troll. Don't feed them.

Widdensushi

donkey balls wrote: »

I know this is aviation and not politics but to call Kenny and a good leader is questionable, Kenny was an accidental leader just happened to be in the right place and time etc.
As for Leo he is another mouth piece had him knock on my door during the 2011 elections, At the time the governments wanted to sell off all state assets.
I asked him why he wanted to sell off the ESB and did he know the critical work done here in Ireland and throughout the world with ESBI, Lets just say his minder had to drag him away.
People have to remember the majority of TD/Ministers have never worked shift hours or in an actual job, The only time they see an airport is when flying off on junkets or holidays.
There is one crowd they listen too and that's all these FDI companies scattered throughout Ireland, Remember the majority of these companies need cargo and pax access if that is limited or cut off all together there be calls left right and center.

It's easy say right place etc as it ran smoothly, give some credit as he was the reason it appeared so, costcutting measures etc were widespread and Alot of difficult yet vital decisions were made. As for selling off the esb, state bodies prove time and time again to be a waste of taxpayers money, better for to be privately owned and allow competition

Beechwoodspark

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This poster is a Troll. Don't feed them.

Hap I’m not a troll

I have some issues with FR yes

L1011

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Hap I’m not a troll

I have some issues with FR yes

You meet my definition of a troll on this thread. Taxation and carbon are entirely off topic, as it is basically every time you try to shoehorn them in. Stop it.

Beechwoodspark

L1011 wrote: »

You meet my definition of a troll on this thread. Taxation and carbon are entirely off topic, as it is basically every time you try to shoehorn them in. Stop it.

Ok. Won’t mention them again on this thread.

L1011

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Ok. Won’t mention them again on this thread.

Or any thread not specifically about it. Ever. This is your final warning, although I have a feeling I said that last time.

donkey balls

Widdensushi wrote: »

It's easy say right place etc as it ran smoothly, give some credit as he was the reason it appeared so, costcutting measures etc were widespread and Alot of difficult yet vital decisions were made. As for selling off the esb, state bodies prove time and time again to be a waste of taxpayers money, better for to be privately owned and allow competition

Again people don't see the bigger picture here the likes of the ESB pay the government a small fortune as it is state owned, If the company was sold the profits and more than likely the work force be shifted off to a country of the new owner.
Which would have ment more people on the live register.
Again sorry for going off topic.

Jack1985

kevinandrew wrote: »

The committee was infuriating viewing at times, the "Shannon lobby" in particular would have you believe there's a conspiracy against poor auld Shannon. One TD asking why Aer Lingus didn't minibus Shannon crew up and down to Dublin to keep them employed!

Both Eddie Wilson and Sean Doyle were united on pretty much every point; the need for testing, the lack of support for the industry and Ireland's continued outlier position on regarding travel and tourism.

TD Cathal Crowe, funny thing is what he's referring to there was EI crewing arrangements for SNN base as there isn't enough crew (well pre Covid) to cover routes so EI would position crew to/from SNN and to Hotels prior some duties so the TD seems to be using that as a bar to say to EI well use your SNN based crew using those previous arrangements to op ex-DUB.

However, everyone is conscious about unnecessary cash burn and that is a prime example of exactly that so it won't be happening. I'd agree completely, as I've said before I absolutely can’t stand locality politics it's beneath the office they hold - But it's why these committees are a laugh to any intellectual individuals as yesterday proved. I can imagine Wilson had a great chat with O’Leary prior to this.

TD Fergus O'Dowd used the term ''That's balderdash Mr Aer Lingus'' when Sean correctly said, ‘I'll judge Gov on their actions and they have done nothing.’ He's absolutely right, Mr O'Dowd has enough sh*t coming his way with previous track record on Nursing Homes.

Jack1985

Very relevant to this thread. It's a pity we don't have this balance in view within NPHET, in Government or within any of the opposition.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enwiyKAhSic

rivegauche

https://www.thelocal.de/20200728/what-you-need-to-know-about-germanys-plans-for-mandatory-covid-19-tests-for-returning-travellers

Here is how a progressive pragmatic country is grappling the problem.
They have the technology and they are going to use it.

If you are coming from a risk zone you are getting tested on entry to Germany for free.
Risk zones can be adjusted on the fly based on latest information.

Lapmo_Dancer

For comparison:

IAG:
British Airways - £300 million from the UK
Iberia - €1 billion from Spain

Lufthansa group:
Lufthansa - €9 billion from Germany
Swiss International Airlines - €1.5 billion from Switzerland
Austrian Airlines - €600 million from Austria
Brussels Airlines - €460 million from Belgium

AF-KLM group:
Air France - €7 billion from France
KLM - €3.4 billion from Netherlands.

Elsewhere:
Alitalia - €3 billion from Italy
TAP - €1.2 billion from Portugal
Finnair - €886 million from Finland
SAS - €592 million from Norway, Sweden & Denmark
Easyjet - £600 million from UK
Ryanair - £600 million from UK

Transatlantic market:
American Airlines, United Airlines and Delta Airlines are sharing a US federal bailout of $25 billion.

Avoation1091

Jack1985 wrote: »

Very relevant to this thread. It's a pity we don't have this balance in view within NPHET, in Government or within any of the opposition.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enwiyKAhSic

Interesting this- The Irish Govt are doing there own thing. Agreed with Sean Doyle and Eddie Wilson yesterday. We need the connectivity to the island or this will have an effect long term. There were cases related to Travel a few weeks ago and that hasnt caused a massive spike.

Theres a North-South discussion on Friday and Travels included. Hopefully they can knock some senses into the Govt. We are being left behind while the rest of Europe and the UK get air travel going again. Hopefully all the connections into DUB can be restored.

Avoation1091

Avoation1091 wrote: »

Interesting this- The Irish Govt are doing there own thing. Agreed with Sean Doyle and Eddie Wilson yesterday. We need the connectivity to the island or this will have an effect long term. There were cases related to Travel a few weeks ago and that hasnt caused a massive spike.

Theres a North-South discussion on Friday and Travels included. Hopefully they can knock some senses into the Govt. We are being left behind while the rest of Europe and the UK get air travel going again. Hopefully all the connections into DUB can be restored.

It’s hard to tell what the government policy is. It very much seems to be responding to public opinion in my eyes.

People singing and shoulder to shoulder in pubs in March-pubs closed.

Twitter posts of packed streets in Dublin-Pubs heavy monitoring by Gardai.

Politicians comment on Dubs going to beaches in their counties-beaches closed and Garda checkpoints

Social media commentary on flights coming in from Dallas.........

When it comes to aviation it seems to be getting unfairly blamed for everything without any real factual support for some moves. Limited to no real solutions to a reopening of services.

I imagine the lack of talk and solutions to testing at airports comes down to resources and cost, mostly cost. The lack of laws on quarantining and follow up Checks comes down to resources and again cost.

It is far cheaper in the short term to keep the doors closed. It will take an awful lot pushing to change their mindset.

kona

Deleted User wrote: »

It’s hard to tell what the government policy is. It very much seems to be responding to public opinion in my eyes.

People singing and shoulder to shoulder in pubs in March-pubs closed.

Twitter posts of packed streets in Dublin-Pubs heavy monitoring by Gardai.

Politicians comment on Dubs going to beaches in their counties-beaches closed and Garda checkpoints

Social media commentary on flights coming in from Dallas.........

When it comes to aviation it seems to be getting unfairly blamed for everything without any real factual support for some moves. Limited to no real solutions to a reopening of services.

I imagine the lack of talk and solutions to testing at airports comes down to resources and cost, mostly cost. The lack of laws on quarantining and follow up Checks comes down to resources and again cost.

It is far cheaper in the short term to keep the doors closed. It will take an awful lot pushing to change their mindset.

From a government point of view, they want the money paid in their various social welfare supports to stay in the country as much as possible, which i can understand completely, the country is heading into a period of turmoil probably never seen before.
I just cannot see a single reason why aviation should get back up to anything like last year beyond necessary cargo and trade links. Its grim, and I dont expect much improvement until maybe the start of next summer.

kona

kona wrote: »

From a government point of view, they want the money paid in their various social welfare supports to stay in the country as much as possible, which i can understand completely, the country is heading into a period of turmoil probably never seen before.
I just cannot see a single reason why aviation should get back up to anything like last year beyond necessary cargo and trade links. Its grim, and I dont expect much improvement until maybe the start of next summer.

I don’t disagree. I suspect if they voice that everyone will come running at them with their hand out.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/science/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker.html
It isn't all doom and gloom.

Nijmegen

https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/boeing-confirms-end-of-747-production-further-reduces-output-of-other-jets/

Long time coming perhaps, but Boeing announcing the end of 747 production once the final -8F is off the line in 2022.

Also reducing 787 further to 6 and 777 to 2 per month but bullish on 737 MAX...

kona

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/science/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker.html
It isn't all doom and gloom.

All these need to be tested then manufactured , distributed and professionally administered. The scale of this goes beyond anything ever done before.

Thats if it works.

some of them are at stage 3 testing which is near release if all goes well.
we are a long way removed from "abandon all hope".

kona

Deleted User wrote: »

some of them are at stage 3 testing which is near release if all goes well.
we are a long way removed from "abandon all hope".

Do you think the first wave of vaccines are going to be affordable


I dont mean to be gloom and doom , i want it all to go back to normal but i just cant see a realistic workable solution from the available info before next summer.

Lets hope im wrong!!!

kona

Deleted User wrote: »

I don’t disagree. I suspect if they voice that everyone will come running at them with their hand out.

I suspect thats it to be fair. From a employment point of view in the short term, the government have really done well with their supports and are supporting aviation as well as they can be expected from a paying the bare minimun wage point of view. They are still in the long term ****ing it up.
Nobody is making money but not everybody is left with nothing.

Its a great time to upskill or diversifying your skill.

howiya

Have aer lingus announced when flights to Jersey (JER) will resume?

JohnC.

kona wrote: »

Do you think the first wave of vaccines are going to be affordable

Depends whose works and what deal is made

From the FT:

The price Moderna is seeking is not likely to be final. In a range of about $50 to $60 for a course — that is, $25-$30 per dose — it appears to be higher than that agreed by Pfizer and its German partner BioNTech last week in a pre-order deal with the US government at $19.50 per dose.

AstraZeneca, meanwhile, signed a deal for its potential vaccine with the Netherlands, Germany, France and Italy, which worked out to $3 to 4 per dose, according to calculations by Geoffrey Porges, a pharma and biotech analyst at SVB Leerink.