Turkish troops killed by Russian airstrikes ( Syria)

Gatling

If American forces wiping out 600 russians in Syria last year didn't cause ww3 - russian killing a few Turks won't cause ww3 either , along with the plausible deniability that it was the Syrians who did it while russia going around trying to be the peace maker in all of this

Montage of Feck

The rise of the far right in Greece combined with a war between Russia and Turkey could open a sectarian Pandora's box in the Balkans.

4068ac1elhodqr

Montage of Feck wrote: »

The rise of the far right in Greece combined with a war between Russia and Turkey could open a sectarian Pandora's box in the Balkans.

And as the Western Balkans 6 are set to join the EU in years to come, a EU26 problem. They already have a GDP-PP about 50% that of Germany. Maybe someone send a memo to Boris and ask them to rejoin with some of their monies.

Cheerful Spring2

tillyfilly wrote: »

Sounds like the Turks will carry out a full onslaught after this weekend coming failed talks

Turkey is striking the Syrian regime forces positions around Aleppo and Idlib hard. They’ve used F-16 fighter jets, cruise missiles and drones to wipe out Syrian tanks, anti-air systems, military convoys and some bases belonging to the Syrian regime. 

Turkey and Syria are at war, but so far Russia has not answered back since yesterday incident. If Turkey carries on at this pace, they may obliterate Assad forces in the North in a week.  Russia not giving Assad force air cover today and Turkey is getting its revenge for last 12 hours.

I have seen only one report a Turkish jet radar locked a Russian jet near Idlib, but nothing seems to have happened.

Gatling

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Turkey and Syria are at war, but so far Russia has not answered back since yesterday incident.

It's more than likely russian forces attacked the Turks and not the Syrians in the first place ,
Americans forces shot at recently by forces carrying russian flags ,
Then we had russian vehicles trying to over take an American military convoy which could have gotten more russians killed ,
Israel are still hitting Iranians and Syrians forces with impunity

Someone is playing silly beggars

nthclare

riffmongous wrote: »

**** off with your ****e, were you there were you? Heard them singing did you? Saw the look in their eyes?

I was, I lived in a country the 'horde' passed through, just ordinary people

Sounds about right coming out of someone who's supposed to be a moderator, you're reacting rather than responding.

Ordinary people, ordinary people live ordinary lives.

paleoperson

Gatling wrote: »

If American forces wiping out 600 russians in Syria last year didn't cause ww3 - russian killing a few Turks won't cause ww3 either , along with the plausible deniability that it was the Syrians who did it while russia going around trying to be the peace maker in all of this

Why would it cause ww3? Everyone hates Turkey now and are glad about this. The only reason Russia would distance themselves from it is to try to protect their relationship with Turkey.

Turns out threatening the western world with floods of innocent migrants, invading and threatening a sovereign country and trying to do ethnic cleansing not only in your own but another country is bad for international relations.

Cheerful Spring2

paleoperson wrote: »

Why would it cause ww3? Everyone hates Turkey now and are glad about this. The only reason Russia would distance themselves from it is to try to protect their relationship with Turkey.

Turns out threatening the western world with floods of innocent migrants, invading and threatening a sovereign country and trying to do ethnic cleansing not only in your own but another country is bad for international relations.

Americans did not kill 600 Russian soldiers, that's Gatling fantasy.  The number given by good sources was about 50 to 100. And they're not Russian infantry, they are mercenaries employed by a military contractor in Russia to go fight in Syria and Ukraine for payment.  US claims they phoned Russia to inquire did they have forces in the region; they said no, and convoy then got hit. Putin will deny this and not speak about it because they are not part of the Russian professional army.   

Beasty

nthclare wrote: »

Sounds about right coming out of someone who's supposed to be a moderator, you're reacting rather than responding.

Ordinary people, ordinary people live ordinary lives.

They are not a moderator of this forum.

Interesting how Turkey opens its borders to release migrants into Europe as a "punishment" or as a bargaining chip.

Europe scrambling to block said migrants (which now seem to be referred to as "irregular migrants").

Seems like only yesterday we were being bombarded with the message that controlling Europe's immigration was tantamount to racism and showed a lack of compassion. I just wish the likes of Merkel were held to account about exactly why the complete U-turn was made. Was she wrong in 2015 and she is right now? Was she wrong to say multi culturalism had failed or was she correct? Shame we will never get to see her grilled on the thought process for such seismic changes in approach.

Gatling

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Americans did not kill 600 Russian soldiers, The number given by good sources was about 50 to 1000 

Give over the spoofing your claims are always proven wrong or come from your Twatter account .

The numbers were varified at 600 killed and another 100+ injured many still full time russian military ..

Gatling

paleoperson wrote: »

Why would it cause ww3?

My point exactly it wouldn't cause ww3 or bring us to a point of near it either , turkey are not liked , Russia and Assad are now locked in a situation very similar to Afghanistan that will rumble on for decades with the only victim being the Syrians being wiped out on a daily basis

Gatling

It seems the claims of Turkey opening its borders to flood Europe isn't exactly true , seems several hundred refugees were pushed from Turkey toward Greece who's border guards repelled them back towards turkey with tear gas ,
I'd take further claims from Turkish media sources as not reliable

Removalist

nthclare wrote: »

Sounds about right coming out of someone who's supposed to be a moderator, you're reacting rather than responding.

Ordinary people, ordinary people live ordinary lives.

Just ordinary people mate.

nthclare

Removalist wrote: »

Just ordinary people mate.

They're not ordinary.

Ordinary to us seems to be getting lost in translate, mate

Cheerful Spring2

Gatling wrote: »

My point exactly it wouldn't cause ww3 or bring us to a point of near it either , turkey are not liked , Russia and Assad are now locked in a situation very similar to Afghanistan that will rumble on for decades with the only victim being the Syrians being wiped out on a daily basis

Idlib in the North is the last surviving active place for the resistance to hide out. If Syrian government forces take it, the war over. 

Since Turkey not going to allow that to happen, Turkey now at war with Syria to keep the region. Another day this be a major news story. 

Turkey supplies Syrian resistance and jihadists with Nato weapons to use them against the Syrian regime. Handing these killers weapons is a big mistake. The jihadists will control the new weaponry in Syria to get revenge and target Russia and Iran. 

Cheerful Spring2

BanditLuke wrote: »

I suppose with the Covid19 story this isn't getting much traction with the media but it deserves to. A wicked situation for all involved.

Right now there dogfights over Syria. These are early reports from the ground that Turkey F16 fighters jets may have shot down 2 Syrian jets, reports from Syrian media. Fighting intense across the region ground and air.
Russia and Iran so far have not replied to the Turkish attack. Iran has made some threats overnight that may react if Turkey doesn’t stop?

It's not WW3, but it serious stuff with so many players involved.

Everyone wondering why Russia so far allowing it to happen?

Cheerful Spring2

paleoperson wrote: »

Why would it cause ww3? Everyone hates Turkey now and are glad about this. The only reason Russia would distance themselves from it is to try to protect their relationship with Turkey.

Turns out threatening the western world with floods of innocent migrants, invading and threatening a sovereign country and trying to do ethnic cleansing not only in your own but another country is bad for international relations.

15 million dollar drone belonging to Turkey got shot down an hour ago. Skies over Syria is a battlefield. Turkish rebels thought it was Syrian/ Russian drone and started celebrating.

https://twitter.com/ELINTNews/status/1234049627109851136

Rufeo

What a crazy place!

BanditLuke

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Right now there dogfights over Syria. These are early reports from the ground that Turkey F16 fighters jets may have shot down 2 Syrian jets, reports from Syrian media. Fighting intense across the region ground and air.
Russia and Iran so far have not replied to the Turkish attack. Iran has made some threats overnight that may react if Turkey doesn’t stop?

It's not WW3, but it serious stuff with so many players involved.

Everyone wondering why Russia so far allowing it to happen?

Yeah a good time to bury bad news.

Snake Plisken

Need to send troops to help Greece to secure the borders. Europe will have enough callanges with the Coronavirus with 1000"s of these migrants trying to get into Europe!

Cheerful Spring2

BanditLuke wrote: »

Yeah a good time to bury bad news.

I got some pictures of the pilots who got out before the planes crashed. It confirmed now Turkish F-16s shot two planes down.

Syrian regime forces aircraft is old tech, F-16 is newer aircraft.

https://twitter.com/Dannymakkisyria/status/1234103863696875520]

toffee dave

Gatling wrote: »

Give over the spoofing your claims are always proven wrong or come from your Twatter account .

The numbers were varified at 600 killed and another 100+ injured many still full time russian military ..

Are you referring to the Battle of Khasham,Feb 07 2018.

Signore Fancy Pants

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Idlib in the North is the last surviving active place for the resistance to hide out. If Syrian government forces take it, the war over. 

Since Turkey not going to allow that to happen, Turkey now at war with Syria to keep the region. Another day this be a major news story. 

Turkey supplies Syrian resistance and jihadists with Nato weapons to use them against the Syrian regime. Handing these killers weapons is a big mistake. The jihadists will control the new weaponry in Syria to get revenge and target Russia and Iran. 

I disagree with your assertion that once Idlib is taken that the war will be over.

It's also less of a "resistance" of normative rebels and more Islamist/Jihadist-centric.

There is a growing insurgency in southern Syria and Damascus city, which may come to the fore.

Cheerful Spring2

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

I disagree with your assertion that once Idlib is taken that the war will be over.

It's also less of a "resistance" of normative rebels and more Islamist/Jihadist-centric.

There is a growing insurgency in southern Syria and Damascus city, which may come to the fore.

Assad forces dominate those regions, it is much easier now to dispose of those smaller pockets of resistance in the south. Assad forces have recovered most of the land they lost during the civil war.
The area in green is the only sector for the Syrian rebels/ jihadists to holdup in Syria. They're nowhere else for them to run but Turkey if they don’t win the war.  In Yellow, the Kurds hold this area, can’t go there.

Ignore the Icons, this just battlefield events in the last few hours.






Signore Fancy Pants

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Assad forces dominate those regions, it is much easier now to dispose of those smaller pockets of resistance in the south. Assad forces have recovered most of the land they lost during the civil war.
The area in green is the only sector for the Syrian rebels/ jihadists to holdup in Syria. They're nowhere else for them to run but Turkey if they don’t win the war.  In Yellow, the Kurds hold this area, can’t go there. 

I'm sorry but while UALive maps are useful visual tool for armchair analysis, it does not refect the full situation on the ground.

Assad does not "dominate" the southern regions, there is a tentative hold there since Aug 2018 but unrest is a daily occurrence and growing.

Southern Syria is held mainly of Russian backed Syria forces, Iranian backed Syrian forces, former rebel fighters with Regime uniforms. In reality, Assad does not dominate the security situation down south.

There has been a covert insurgency in southern Syria for the last 18 months with daily assassinations of pro-Syrian figureheads.

An alternative for Idlib/Aleppo "rebels" is a strategic move to the Turkish proxy held area taken under Operation Peace Spring. OR...they can leave for Libya.

Hayat Tahrir al-Sham may disperse and regroup in southern Syria, where there leader (al-Golani) is from, Dar'a.

ArchXStanton

What is Turkey even doing in Syria, surely this is an act of war

jmreire

ArchXStanton wrote: »

What is Turkey even doing in Syria, surely this is an act of war

Creating a 30 Klm ( or mile ) buffer zone to protect Turkey from the Kurds, or other undesirables who might threaten it. You could also call it a "Land Grab" if you wanted.

Signore Fancy Pants

ArchXStanton wrote: »

What is Turkey even doing in Syria, surely this is an act of war

Cant give a comprehensive answer, would be too long. Some bullet points if you dont mind.

• Initially they conducted a cross border operation to counter the ISIS threat to Turkeys northern border. Assad didnt mind.

• Then the focus shifted to Syrian rebels.

• Then the focus shifted to the Kurds who are a longstanding threat to Turkish national security. The Syrian civil war was a great reason to get Turkish boots on the ground. In fact, Turkey have launched, well now 4 big offensives into Syria.

• The strategic dumping of Syrian rebels into Idlib, after multiple political negotiations including the Astana agreement (Russia, Iran, Turkey). This gave Turkey legitimacy to have troops on the ground in observation posts.

• Turkey were also responsible for de-arming Syrian rebels...which didnt happen. Instead thet funded, trained and used them as a proxy force.

4068ac1elhodqr

The numbers certainly appear nearer to 10's of thousands (as suggested by {both} Greece & Turkey), up to 4million refugees in Turkey (with funds sent from the EU for management of).
Not hundreds as someone suggested.

Even the mainstream media also mentioned that many are not simply Syrian refugess, but a wide mix e.g. Afganistan (now under peace deal) and many other Middle East states.

Cheerful Spring2

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

I'm sorry but while UALive maps are useful visual tool for armchair analysis, it does not refect the full situation on the ground.

Assad does not "dominate" the southern regions, there is a tentative hold there since Aug 2018 but unrest is a daily occurrence and growing.

Southern Syria is held mainly of Russian backed Syria forces, Iranian backed Syrian forces, former rebel fighters with Regime uniforms. In reality, Assad does not dominate the security situation down south.

There has been a covert insurgency in southern Syria for the last 18 months with daily assassinations of pro-Syrian figureheads.

An alternative for Idlib/Aleppo "rebels" is a strategic move to the Turkish proxy held area taken under Operation Peace Spring. OR...they can leave for Libya.

Hayat Tahrir al-Sham may disperse and regroup in southern Syria, where there leader (al-Golani) is from, Dar'a.

I’m not denying there still resistance in the south, still what i read, it's just a small group carrying out limited attacks.

Right now the resistance has not got the numbers to open a second front behind Assad forces and cannot take cities and towns back, so Assad and his allies has secured the south for now. You have a different opinion that's ok.

The heavy conflict with tanks, aircraft, drones, thousands of men fighting each other is all taking place in North Syria. Turkey involvement now has given the jihadists new weaponry to play with it.  This is not good.  

Russia and Iran will have to determine is it is better to just give Turkey this region in Northern Syria? The only other option is a broader conflict.

10000maniacs

The EU should send them back immediately. And put in physical barriers on Turkeys perimeters. Just waiting for the bleeding heart brigade to chime in and say the EU should take in the 3.5 million migrants.

Cheerful Spring2

ArchXStanton wrote: »

What is Turkey even doing in Syria, surely this is an act of war

Yes, it is. Assad forces can't face Turkey forces alone. Turkey has 5th largest army in Nato and has modern weaponry.

Gatling

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »



Right now the resistance has not got the numbers to open a second front behind Assad forces and cannot take cities and towns back, so Assad and his allies has secured the south for now. You have a different opinion that's ok.

Assad hasn't got the forces or ability to hold ground long term it explains why russian forces are actively both the military and civilian police in supposed assad strong holds without russian and Iranian forces Assad would fall in weeks

Signore Fancy Pants

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

I’m not denying there still resistance in the south, still what i read, it's just a small group carrying out limited attacks.

Right now the resistance has not got the numbers to open a second front behind Assad forces and cannot take cities and towns back, so Assad and his allies has secured the south for now. You have a different opinion that's ok.

The heavy conflict with tanks, aircraft, drones, thousands of men fighting each other is all taking place in North Syria. Turkey involvement now has given the jihadists new weaponry to play with it.  This is not good.  

Russia and Iran will have to determine is it is better to just give Turkey this region in Northern Syria? The only other option is a broader conflict.

An insurgency is not about opening up a new front, its unconventional, therefore unpredictable.

Have another look at todays UALive map there and look at Dar'a.....it is uncommon to see such activity in the south. The situation is degrading.

When pro-Assad forces redeploy from southern Syria, which they have, it will creat a vaccum which the insurgency will exploit...including today.

You are also not taking into account the thousands of peopld from the south who have been forcibly conscripted into the SAAF. They are sure to defect and go back south. Weakening Assads forces.

I do have a different opinion but I am probably more qualified to give it.

irishproduce

Snake Plisken wrote: »

Need to send troops to help Greece to secure the borders. Europe will have enough callanges with the Coronavirus with 1000"s of these migrants trying to get into Europe!

We should send our navy to provide supports to Greece in the sea.
Make up for the stupid fukcing around they did dragging illegal migrants into Europe.

Snake Plisken

10000maniacs wrote: »

The EU should send them back immediately. And put in physical barriers on Turkeys perimeters. Just waiting for the bleeding heart brigade to chime in and say the EU should take in the 3.5 million migrants.

Exactly nothing to do with the EU! Give us back the billions we've paid the Turks to manage the Migrants! Time for the EU to step up and show some backbone!

ArchXStanton

10000maniacs wrote: »

The EU should send them back immediately. And put in physical barriers on Turkeys perimeters. Just waiting for the bleeding heart brigade to chime in and say the EU should take in the 3.5 million migrants.

The EU seems to want this migration, the only reason they seem to be making any effort against it is because people are getting sick of it

nthclare

So has Turkey taken over the ISIS roll of being the saviour of the Sunni in Syria.

This is a sh1t storm in the making.

I suppose there's always going to be an Afghanistan scenario in the world.

Russia and Turkey have been edging towards a war over the last few years.
Since the downing of that Jet in Syria Airspace its check mate for the Russians.

Gatling

irishproduce wrote: »

We should send our navy to provide supports to Greece in the sea.
Make up for the stupid fukcing around they did dragging illegal migrants into Europe.

Now come on ,the government would buy ferries to be used help transport migrants instead of naval vessels ,

It was suggested years ago that NATO and the EU used naval forces to stop illegal immigrants leaving the likes of Libya with a blockade and aerial patrols and but the EU decided it's better to rescue and dump them on Italy and Malta and Greece

Gatling

nthclare wrote: »

Since the downing of that Jet in Syria Airspace its check mate for the Russians.

Remember it was Putin who helped keep Erdoğan in power after they supposedly warned he was going to be removed in a coup russian intelligence services uncovered, but months before Putin publicly claimed he had evidence that Erdoğan was supporting and supplying Isis ,but then they became best of friends

Cheerful Spring2

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

An insurgency is not about opening up a new front, its unconventional, therefore unpredictable.

Have another look at todays UALive map there and look at Dar'a.....it is uncommon to see such activity in the south. The situation is degrading.

When pro-Assad forces redeploy from southern Syria, which they have, it will creat a vaccum which the insurgency will exploit...including today.

You are also not taking into account the thousands of peopld from the south who have been forcibly conscripted into the SAAF. They are sure to defect and go back south. Weakening Assads forces.

I do have a different opinion but I am probably more qualified to give it.

Syrian regime forces likely have poor morale because Turkey attacking them and having success. Russia and Iran so far doing nothing to get in their way.  It’s unpredictable is correct. The battlefield situation is fluid, and events on the ground will decide future events across Syria.

Regards Darra’a we find out. I still think Assad forces have secured the southern sectors for now. You may be right the insurgency will gain strength.


Cheerful Spring2

nthclare wrote: »

So has Turkey taken over the ISIS roll of being the saviour of the Sunni in Syria.

This is a sh1t storm in the making.

I suppose there's always going to be an Afghanistan scenario in the world.

Russia and Turkey have been edging towards a war over the last few years.
Since the downing of that Jet in Syria Airspace its check mate for the Russians.

Yes. There heavy fighting everywhere, some clips from today. Right now the Turkish head choppers are making gains and taking villages and small towns.

https://twitter.com/QalaatAlMudiq/status/1234127439770591234

nthclare

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Yes. There heavy fighting everywhere, some clips from today. Right now the Turkish head choppers are making gains and taking villages and small towns.

https://twitter.com/QalaatAlMudiq/status/1234127439770591234

So the head choppers are back again and reeking havoc and fear in towns villages and rural areas.

Ffs I thought Turkey would know better than to be aligning with the Salafists and Jihadi

jmreire

nthclare wrote: »

So the head choppers are back again and reeking havoc and fear in towns villages and rural areas.

Ffs I thought Turkey would know better than to be aligning with the Salafists and Jihadi

" My enemies friend, is my friend "

Kivaro

Thaddeus Bitter Beefsteak wrote: »

The numbers certainly appear nearer to 10's of thousands (as suggested by {both} Greece & Turkey), up to 4million refugees in Turkey (with funds sent from the EU for management of).
Not hundreds as someone suggested.

Even the mainstream media also mentioned that many are not simply Syrian refugess, but a wide mix e.g. Afganistan (now under peace deal) and many other Middle East states.

From the footage that I saw on France24, those refugees currently at the Greek border were mainly African.

Lord Fairlord

ArchXStanton wrote: »

The EU seems to want this migration, the only reason they seem to be making any effort against it is because people are getting sick of it

Quite possibly; people should look up what Peter Sutherland had to say about migration into Europe.

ArchXStanton

Lord Fairlord wrote: »

Quite possibly; people should look up what Peter Sutherland had to say about migration into Europe.

Yeah.. "the EU should do its best to undermine the homogeneity of its Member States"

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/peter-sutherland-s-legacy-1.3351136%3fmode=amp

They certainly seem to be aiming for it..

jmreire

nthclare wrote: »

So the head choppers are back again and reeking havoc and fear in towns villages and rural areas.

Ffs I thought Turkey would know better than to be aligning with the Salafists and Jihadi

Aligning with Jihadi's and Salafists is only a bit of dressing on the cake....the real plan is to give Assad a bloody nose, and so far, thats exactly what is happening because Vladimer has decided to sit this one out. This plays nicely into his plan's. When he did not retaliate when Turkey shot down his fighter, that was a marker on what his relationship with Turkey would be like in future and he is not going to jeopardize that. He has absolutely nothing to gain by attacking Turkey, ( except maybe losing plane's and men ). He now has everything that he wants to have in Syria, and just in case Assad is getting any idea's about how dependent on the Russians he actually is, this battle with Turkey will remind him very quickly which side hie bread is buttered on. Turkey will win this round, and hold what it has territory-wise. Th safe buffer is not going anywhere, unless Vladimir has a change of heart.

Blueshoe

Clips floating around showing Greeks burning a migrant reception centre on Lesbos and attacking NGOs who have flooded to the area.
Also a clip of Greeks stopping a dingy carrying migrants from landing.
"Go home, go back" they chanted.
.