Turkish troops killed by Russian airstrikes ( Syria)

Lord Fairlord

Gatling wrote: »

What about

What about

What about

Yeah no

For you to be consistent you ought oppose all mass bombing campaigns against groups that have placed themselves in amongst the civilian population.

Gatling

Lord Fairlord wrote: »

For you to be consistent

Very consistent when it comes to the attacks on the civilian population of Syria by putin and assad forces .

I'd half expect a Vietnam rant next

Lord Fairlord

For now I'll just leave this Robert Fisk link for those who wish to understand a bit more of the complexities of the war.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/syria-chemical-attack-gas-douma-robert-fisk-ghouta-damascus-a8307726.html

McGiver

archer22 wrote:

Europe needs to grow a pair and start protecting it's borders...not just sitting there looking helpless and pathetic every time Sultan Erdogan decides to blackmail them by opening the floodgates.

Yes, European army needed ASAP. We can't be relying on Trump tomorrow cover our arses, that time has passed. We have three belligerent players in the borders now - Turkey, Russia and the UK. Plus isolationist US and ascending China.

And Frontex need to start actually doing something!

Now all the europhobic talk of how bad the EU is - firstly we ARE the EU, we decide what it can or cannot do, we are part of the decision making process.

Secondly, the nation states don't want to pass on more competencies (and money!) to the EU level, they play their domestic silly games. The EU is in reality very weak and with limited scope of operation.

Lord Fairlord

Gatling wrote: »

Very consistent when it comes to the attacks on the civilian population of Syria by putin and assad forces .

I'd half expect a Vietnam rant next

We can talk about agent orange or even how the Gulf of Tonkin false pretence for war incident another time.

McGiver

Snake Plisken wrote:

Exactly nothing to do with the EU! Give us back the billions we've paid the Turks to manage the Migrants! Time for the EU to step up and show some backbone!

Once again. The EU can't. It can only do what the states let it. The states don't want the EU to have this competency. They don't let it. End of story. The EU legally cannot act. And there's also the money question.

McGiver

Gatling wrote:

It was suggested years ago that NATO and the EU used naval forces to stop illegal immigrants leaving the likes of Libya with a blockade and aerial patrols and but the EU decided it's better to rescue and dump them on Italy and Malta and Greece

This is a lie.

Gatling

Lord Fairlord wrote: »

We can talk about agent orange or even how the Gulf of Tonkin false pretence for war incident another time.

Lol .

Let's not talk about russian and Assad indiscriminately bombing the civilian population of Syria - check

Let's what about America - check

Pro russian /Syrian bloggers opinion - check

Vietnam -check


Walks like a duck ,quacks like a duck

Gatling

McGiver wrote: »

This is a lie.

It's actually not ,

McGiver

Kivaro wrote:

Can you blame them. The majority of these migrants are economic. Imagine the people of Lesbos being inundated with thousands of migrants and then their government starts building permanent structures for migrant intake. The way of life that they have known for centuries is drastically changing without their input.

Now, how do you think the Irish genes got to 10-20% population of the US and the UK? Economic migrants. Just to remind you.

Gatling

McGiver wrote: »

Now, how do you think the Irish genes got to 10-20% population of the US and the UK? Economic migrants. Just to remind you.

Plenty of threads on economic and welfare migrants as it is

McGiver

archer22 wrote:

The European Union should sanction the sh1t out of Turkey immediately,if they were willing to do that to Iran who posed no threat to Europe then they should have no barriers in doing it to Turkey who poses a very real and imminent danger.

Yes, agree. And throw them out of Nato.
And if they stay in Nato then that's another reason why we need EU army pronto.

McGiver

Gatling wrote:

It's actually not ,

Evidence?

jmreire

Lord Fairlord wrote: »

Where is your proof that Assad and Putin have a policy of deliberately targeting civilians?
The terrorists that the Syrian state is fighting have placed themselves in amongst the civilian population - just like ISIS had and yet that didn't stop the Americans from bombing them.
If you want a journalist who is mainstream and not a fan of Assad, read Peter Hitchens. He makes an excellent case against Western military intervention in Syria.

Have you seen the RTE series " Dangerous Dynasty : The Assad Family " Its very informative and factual. Assad's Father, Hafez, put down a revolution by the Muslim Brotherhood in Hamas. killing 20'000 people, many of them innocent civilians, and destroying much of the city in the process. The present regime have continued to follow the Fathers footsteps. They have and are continuing to target and kill civilians, and destroy infrastructure... and they have been doing this since the very begininng, back in 2011. long before either isis or the Russian's became involved.

donaghs

Gatling wrote: »

So yeah the difference between casualties in iraq fighting Isis and the war crimes committed by assad and putin who were solely targeting and attacking the civilian population and civilian infrastructure such as schools , hospitals and markets and civilian aid convoys using dumb weapons to chemical weapons

Assad with Russian assistance has retaken almost all Syrian territory. Just the small area around Idlib near Turkey is still a war zone. Are you seriously suggesting that these victories were achieved by “solely targeting and attacking the civilian population and civilian infrastructure such as schools , hospitals and markets and civilian aid convoys using dumb weapons to chemical weapons“. ???

I read that the US attack on IS in Mosul we’re the worst civilians of any bombings in the region. But don’t know if there was any other way to defeat them. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/556466/

It’s cruel and brutal, but it just looks like war to me, with little regard for civilians. The Syrians Don’t have smart weapons, and don’t seem to care if civilians get in the way when targeting the enemy. The idea that civilians would be deliberately and primarily targeted “instead” of focusing on the enemy forces is just ridiculous.

Gatling

donaghs wrote: »

Assad with Russian assistance has retaken almost all Syrian territory. Just the small area around Idlib near Turkey is still a war zone. Are you seriously suggesting that these victories were achieved by “solely targeting and attacking the civilian population and civilian infrastructure such as schools , hospitals and markets and civilian aid convoys using dumb weapons to chemical weapons“.

Yes I'm saying they purposely and indiscriminately targeted civilians and civilian populations ,it's the same tactics used by the Russians in Afghanistan and both Chechen wars bomb and kill everything till everyone bows down before us ,
I noticed in the link posted seems to be a mix of opinions and estimates on top of estimates oh we went to the morgue and found 5000 names but no indication of how and where these 5000 names died but had to be at the hands of American or coalition bombs .

Where in Syria we've seen the hospitals being bombarded , we've seen helicopters dropping barrel bombs on markets we've seen journalist being targeted and killed by assad forces ,

Not estimates but actual near daily footage of atrocities carried out by assad and putin forces on the people of Syria who are now facing russian military acting as civilian police and military forces .

People complain about America ,just wait till the Syrians say no to Russian forces acting on behalf of Assad, will we sit and watch daily footage of russians , Iranians killing civilians because the regime say their terrorists

jmreire

Gatling wrote: »

Yes I'm saying they purposely and indiscriminately targeted civilians and civilian populations ,it's the same tactics used by the Russians in Afghanistan and both Chechen wars bomb and kill everything till everyone bows down before us ,
I noticed in the link posted seems to be a mix of opinions and estimates on top of estimates oh we went to the morgue and found 5000 names but no indication of how and where these 5000 names died but had to be at the hands of American or coalition bombs .

Where in Syria we've seen the hospitals being bombarded , we've seen helicopters dropping barrel bombs on markets we've seen journalist being targeted and killed by assad forces ,

Not estimates but actual near daily footage of atrocities carried out by assad and putin forces on the people of Syria who are now facing russian military acting as civilian police and military forces .

People complain about America ,just wait till the Syrians say no to Russian forces acting on behalf of Assad, will we sit and watch daily footage of russians , Iranians killing civilians because the regime say their terrorists

Agreed 100% + Its a replay of Afghanistan and Chechnya. Barrel bombs dropped by helicopter's are indiscriminate, and when the target's are hospitals and infrastructure, water works and pumping station's...all against the Geneva Conventions for the protection of the civilian population. These are War Crimes.

Timberrrrrrrr

jmreire wrote: »

Agreed 100% + Its a replay of Afghanistan and Chechnya. Barrel bombs dropped by helicopter's are indiscriminate, and when the target's are hospitals and infrastructure, water works and pumping station's...all against the Geneva Conventions for the protection of the civilian population. These are War Crimes.

Depends who does the bombing

jmreire

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Depends who does the bombing

Who had the helicopters???

Timberrrrrrrr

jmreire wrote: »

Who had the helicopters???

Several countries have bombed

hospitals and infrastructure, water works and pumping station's...all against the Geneva Conventions 

Not saying it's right for anyoen to do it, saying it's kinda widespread even among the countries who you wouldn't think wouldn't take part in that behaviour

jmreire

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Several countries have bombed



Not saying it's right for anyoen to do it, saying it's kinda widespread even among the countries who you wouldn't think wouldn't take part in that behaviour

Only one military used barrel bombs, dropped from helicopters. And the Russians ruled the skies, once the US made it clear that they had no interest in contesting it. No one else had aircraft. Had the US declared a no-fly zone early on, a lot of the bombing could not have taken place. Once Obama failed to react when his "Red Line" was crossed, that gave the Russian's the GL to take an active part in the Syrian war.

rdhma

donaghs wrote: »

Assad with Russian assistance has retaken almost all Syrian territory. Just the small area around Idlib near Turkey is still a war zone. Are you seriously suggesting that these victories were achieved by “solely targeting and attacking the civilian population and civilian infrastructure such as schools , hospitals and markets and civilian aid convoys using dumb weapons to chemical weapons“. ???

I read that the US attack on IS in Mosul we’re the worst civilians of any bombings in the region. But don’t know if there was any other way to defeat them. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/556466/

It’s cruel and brutal, but it just looks like war to me, with little regard for civilians. The Syrians Don’t have smart weapons, and don’t seem to care if civilians get in the way when targeting the enemy. The idea that civilians would be deliberately and primarily targeted “instead” of focusing on the enemy forces is just ridiculous.

I suggest a viewing of "For Sama", by Waad Al-Kateab. An excellent, if harrowing documentary, made during the assault on Aleppo. Hospitals were very much deliberately targeted.

Timberrrrrrrr

rdhma wrote: »

I suggest a viewing of "For Sama", by Waad Al-Kateab. An excellent, if harrowing documentary, made during the assault on Aleppo. Hospitals were very much deliberately targeted.

As were they targeted in palestine.

jmreire

rdhma wrote: »

I suggest a viewing of "For Sama", by Waad Al-Kateab. An excellent, if harrowing documentary, made during the assault on Aleppo. Hospitals were very much deliberately targeted.

Anything, and that mean's everything that will aid the "enemy" was targeted in Syria ( in other country's and other war's too ) and hospitals ( especially hospitals) were prime target's, and like I mentioned earlier...pumping stations, water treatment plant's etc....all deliberately destroyed to deny their use to the "enemy". This is ongoing in Idlib at the moment.

Gatling

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Depends who does the bombing

I'm sure all those bullets fired by and bombs dropped from the queen's loyal servants don't count for some reason or another ,

We know what America did and when all the way back to the American civil war thanks to several anti American posters unusual in a attempt to divert the discussion away from Russian and Syrian atrocities in Syria against the Syrian people

Elmer Blooker

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

As were they targeted in palestine.

You're wasting your time trying to argue with those who just parrot jihadist propaganda.
ALL 'information' that comes out of areas under the control of the head choppers is provided by jihadists disguised as 'aid workers'.

nthclare

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

You're wasting your time trying to argue with those who just parrot jihadist propaganda.
ALL 'information' that comes out of areas under the control of the head choppers is provided by jihadists disguised as 'aid workers'.

White helmets comes to mind, I remember during the influx of the head choppers getting their comrades to wear white helmets while they try to rescue people from the war.

Any goon can put on a white helmet, wearing a white helmet doesn't mean you're as white as pure as Nepal snow.

Reminds me of when Hollywood put a clean white cowboy hat and well pressed shirts on the hero, who killed the so called baddies.
But yet he was a cold hearted killer himself.

The guys wearing white helmets in jihadi areas were quite suspect to be honest.

But I could be wrong about them too.

Gatling

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

You're wasting your time trying

^ ✓ %100 you are wasting your time sputnik

Gatling

Syrian refugees to flood Europe from Turkey - only problem few of the refugees are actually Syrians

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-syria-security-turkey-migrants/at-turkeys-frontier-with-europe-everyone-wants-to-be-syrian-idUSKBN20U0P2

McGiver

Gatling wrote:

Syrian refugees to flood Europe from Turkey - only problem few of the refugees are actually Syrians

Few? Did you count them all?