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coronavirus and the property effect

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,396 ✭✭✭lindtee


    Thanks for the advice guys. Going to call to withdraw tomorrow.
    Like all of us, head is in a spin from all that’s happened to our world within the past couple of weeks. At least I can be pretty sure that house prices won’t rise so I’m pretty happy to bow out and start the search again when things improve.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 226 ✭✭Steer55


    What's the mood out there from buyers and sellers ?

    Personally I'd say people were better to wait later in the year the market crashing we are seeing is only getting going. The effect from the Chinese economy drop has not hit yet.


    I would imagine there will be very few viewings now for the foreseeable future. Offices closed. Staff off sick etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Steer55 wrote: »
    I would imagine there will be very few viewings now for the foreseeable future. Offices closed. Staff off sick etc.

    I didn't think about that. What of the online auctions . They might still go ahead.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Deutsche Bank is warning we could be heading for the worst slowdown since World War 2


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,310 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    lindtee wrote: »
    Thanks for the advice guys. Going to call to withdraw tomorrow.
    Like all of us, head is in a spin from all that’s happened to our world within the past couple of weeks. At least I can be pretty sure that house prices won’t rise so I’m pretty happy to bow out and start the search again when things improve.

    There'll be no new houses built for months and months now.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭ZX7R


    Deutsche Bank is warning we could be heading for the worst slowdown since World War 2

    You must not have read the full article ,
    They said the first have if the year will see
    The one of the biggest contractions in the markets post world war period.
    And they expect 5% grouth in the second half


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,503 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    I'd imagine state workers will have a unilateral pay cut at some stage, probably after the initial surge in cases

    The legislation is there from the crash of 2008/2009


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,969 ✭✭✭Assetbacked


    Starting to see some movement on the Daft.ie Dublin rentals;

    https://www.daft.ie/dublin/apartments-for-rent/dublin-2/the-northumberlands-love-lane-lower-mount-street-dublin-2-dublin-2009334/ This property has decreased €50 p/m since it came on the website about two weeks ago, even though it doesn't have the red price decrease arrow, I know this price dropped from casually browsing the site.

    If you go on and search for rentals at the "affordable" price ranges (below €2.5k I have gone with), there are a lot of red arrows indicating price drops. There also appears to be a lot of apartments available. I also think there are a lot more apartments around the 1500-1800 price range that are actually nice looking, which has not been the case the past 2/3 years - the beginning of a correction at last?

    3 bed house in D4 for 1800 www.daft.ie/22015054


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭Slydice


    Oh, they added headings :) *waves*

    hrmmm.. "focus on the task of supporting their customers"

    Minister Donohoe outlines further measures to support Individuals and businesses impacted by COVID-19
    Published on Wednesday, 18 Mar 2020
    https://www.housing.gov.ie/housing/private-rented-housing/minister-donohoe-outlines-further-measures-support-individuals-and

    The Minister for Finance and Public Expenditure & Reform, Paschal Donohoe T.D., today (Wednesday 18th March) welcomed the ongoing work of the Central Bank of Ireland, Banking and Payments Federation Ireland (BPFI), and the Revenue Commissioners to support customers in difficulties due to COVID-19.

    “Today, I had a constructive meeting with the five CEOs of our retail banks and with Banking and Payments Federation Ireland (BPFI). I note that a meeting will also be held with the Central Bank tomorrow. I welcome the ongoing work that is taking place to assist customers who are impacted by COVID-19.

    The proposed actions by the banks will build on the Government response, and the ECB’s monetary and regulatory policy measures to deliver real support to individuals, SMEs and companies in these difficult times. These actions are the translation of European and national policies into individual supports that best assist the needs of our bank customers in the period ahead.”

    1. BPFI Support for bank borrowers

    The banking sector’s coordinated approach to supporting customers whose income has been impacted by COVID-19 is to be welcomed. The range of supports proposed by the BPFI, and to be discussed with the Central Bank, are customer focused so as to cater for the different impacts of COVID-19 on each individual customer. These proposals include:

    Flexible arrangements, including payment break for Mortgages and other loans – Customers affected by COVID-19 must contact their bank to discuss the flexibility available to them, including the possibility of a payment break of up to 3 months.

    Support for buy to let bank customers with tenants affected by COVID 19 – Customers with rental property in which the tenants are adversely impacted by COVID 19 will also be provided with flexibility including with an opportunity to seek a payment break of up to 3 months, which will allow them to exercise due levels of forbearance to their tenants.

    Extensive supports for SME customers – Banks are working to ensure a wide range of credit, cash flow and supply chain supports are offered to businesses who are trying to manage the pressures arising from COVID-19. A deferral of up to 3-months on loan repayments will be of assistance to many businesses. In addition, the banks are adopting a customer focussed approach to these businesses with a wide variety of tailored supports including extensions of credit lines, risk guarantees, and trade finance. These supports complement the range of Government supports available through the Strategic Banking Corporation of Ireland.

    Customers facing difficulties due to COVID 19 are urged to contact their bank as soon as possible to make alternative arrangements that will assist them to come through this difficult period. Banks will work to ensure that these supports are made available to borrowers in a straightforward manner and aligned to the processes rolled out by the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection.

    2. Central Bank Prudential Policies

    The Minister welcomes the Central Bank’s decision to reduce the Countercyclical Capital Buffer, from 1% to 0%. This decision will free up bank capital that can be used to provide credit, and to restructure and extend the loans of bank customers, both individuals and SMEs. The release of this regulatory buffer by the Central Bank in this time of need shows the importance of the Central Bank’s introduction of the buffer two years ago in stronger economic times.

    The impact of the reduction of this buffer to 0% will free up in excess of €1 billion of bank capital. This capital amount has the potential to support approximately €13 billion of restructured lending to bank customers that need assistance. Combined with the relaxation of Pillar 2 guidance and the Capital Conservation Buffer by the European Central Bank, the reduction in this buffer will ensure that banks have significant resources at their disposal to support borrowers.

    The Minister also welcomes the Central Bank’s ongoing work with European colleagues to ensure that bank customers, whether personal or business customers, impacted by COVID-19 are extended forbearance without their loans being classified as defaulting.

    The Minister has also decided to defer the introduction of the Systemic Risk Buffer while all of the key players in the banking sector are working together to support customers.

    The actions taken by the Central Bank and Single Supervisory Mechanism to allow banks to focus on the task of supporting their customers is welcome as it strikes the right balance between allowing banks to meet their customers’ immediate needs, while ensuring there is proportionate regulatory oversight.

    3. BPFI actions to ensure operational continuity

    The Minister acknowledges the extensive work that has been ongoing across the BPFI and its members to ensure the continuity of banking services to the public. The proactive approach of the BPFI and its members in working together should minimise possible disruption to payment services.

    4. Changes to assist Public Health Policy

    In order to support public health policy, the Minister is requesting that industry increase the limit on contactless payments to €50. This change covers most transactions given the average value of contactless transactions is €12.23 and the average value of debit card transactions is €41.52.

    5. Deferral to stamp duty

    The Minister has decided to defer the collection of stamp duty on credit cards to July, which is normally levied in April, for which he will legislate for in due course.

    6. Non Bank lending

    The Minister welcomes the fact that initial discussions with Credit Service Firms and with those non– bank lenders who provide mortgages have taken place with the BPFI. Both the Credit Service Firms and non-bank lenders have issues which need to be addressed with the Central Bank of Ireland, but both are committed to working with the Government and industry to provide the flexibility that people need at this time.

    The Minister concluded by stating:

    “We are all acutely aware of the impact of this public health crisis on our fellow citizens, both in terms of serious illness but also in terms of income loss.

    “The proposed actions provide real support to those most impacted by COVID-19. It is incumbent on those citizens who continue to receive their full income to do their part by paying their bills, taxes, and loans on time, so as the maximum amounts of supports are available to our fellow citizens who are most in need.

    “We must work together and support each other.”

    Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government, Eoghan Murphy TD, in support of the measures announced today added that “Today’s announcement by the banking sector represents a first step in protecting both tenants and landlords in the current crisis. These actions remove pressures on landlords who have shown a willingness to exercise forbearance in relation to tenants who are experiencing difficulty with rents due to the loss of income resulting from contracting the covid19 virus, being in self-isolation as a result of the virus or having lost all or significant employment. I have spent the last number of days engaging with both landlords and tenants organisations as well as charities and NGO’s and I expect to be in a position to announce further measure to compliment today’s announcement shortly.”


  • Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭OttoPilot


    https://www.qquarter.com/dublin-1/quayside-quarter/

    I see the one beds in Quayside quarter are now at 2600. They were 2850 advertised I believe although going for lower (rumour). They have two buildings finishing in may and june also so I'm sure they'll be under pressure to fill them. What is it about johnny ronan and top of the bubble developments?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,969 ✭✭✭Assetbacked


    OttoPilot wrote: »
    https://www.qquarter.com/dublin-1/quayside-quarter/

    I see the one beds in Quayside quarter are now at 2600. They were 2850 advertised I believe although going for lower (rumour). They have two buildings finishing in may and june also so I'm sure they'll be under pressure to fill them. What is it about johnny ronan and top of the bubble developments?

    I had forgotten about these high spec new builds (Capital Dock, Mount Argus etc), if they end up on the market closer to €2k in rent then the standard dross for that price currently will be pushed right down.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    12 properties on MyHome dropping their asking price in the last 2 days

    https://www.myhome.ie/pricechanges/dublin


  • Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ............. There also appears to be a lot of apartments available. I also think there are a lot more apartments around the 1500-1800 price range that are actually nice looking, which has not been the case the past 2/3 years - the beginning of a correction at last?

    3 bed house in D4 for 1800 www.daft.ie/22015054

    I would guess many previous AirB&B spots are now going on rental market.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,236 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Augeo wrote: »
    I would guess many previous AirB&B spots are now going on rental market.

    That will push the market down certainly and it will go back to tenants demanding a reduction from their current landlord or moving. The downward move will continue for quite some time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,969 ✭✭✭Assetbacked


    Augeo wrote: »
    I would guess many previous AirB&B spots are now going on rental market.

    Yeah, there's definitely some Airbnbs on daft now judging by the fairly random pricing between €1400 and €1800. There's a few 1500 one beds (not studios) on bachelors walk - unheard of a few weeks ago. One clearly has the Airbnb photos as there are towels folded on the bed! Downward pressure on rental prices is coming swiftly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 39 Ap2020


    Yeah, there's definitely some Airbnbs on daft now. One has the Airbnb photos with towels folded on the bed!

    It's always very obvious when something has moved from Airbnb. It's been happening for a while, but very clear in the last couple of weeks. Lots of properties with proper professional photos and much more stylish decor than the standard photo of a dark room with a stained carpet taken with a potato.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,852 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    12 properties on MyHome dropping their asking price in the last 2 days

    https://www.myhome.ie/pricechanges/dublin

    depending on the seller circumstance, its not a bad strategy. Many will still want to buy and if they think, well the prices have already corrected a bit due to this virus, some might jump or even get them to make offers...

    because the prices will only go one way in my opinion, but it will be over an extended period! the property market moves at such a glacial rate, that anyone thinking this is the stock market where you will have a 15% etc drop in a day or short space of time, is seriously deluded!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    Be happy to buy as I had already priced in a significant drop. Problem is that an already glacial process has stopped completely.


  • Registered Users Posts: 324 ✭✭antfin


    What's the mood out there from buyers and sellers ?

    Personally I'd say people were better to wait later in the year the market crashing we are seeing is only getting going. The effect from the Chinese economy drop has not hit yet.

    Cash buyers might pick up some bargains but I imagine the banks will be reverting back to 2011 and 2012 levels of mortgage lending for a good while after the health crisis ends.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,852 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    there are so many factors at play. If you were about to close or have deposit paid , thats one thing. If you are also paying mad rent, there is another issue. Depends where in the process you are and a ton of personal circumstances!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,969 ✭✭✭Assetbacked


    This looks like an Airbnb with some desperation thrown in for good measure; https://www.daft.ie/dublin/apartments-for-rent/grand-canal-dock/32-millennium-tower-charlotte-quay-grand-canal-dock-dublin-2014730/

    €550 reduction in 2 days on Daft and from the description it was used as an Airbnb up until recently.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Tourism is dead for the next few months, possibility longer. Fill the place for the medium at a more reasonable rent seems a wiser move.


  • Registered Users Posts: 998 ✭✭✭dharma200


    beauf wrote: »
    Tourism is dead for the next few months, possibility longer. Fill the place for the medium at a more reasonable rent seems a wiser move.

    The reasonable rents will bucket the false rental economy.
    Massive shift coming with air b n b now finished.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 52 ✭✭IndieRoar111


    antfin wrote: »
    Cash buyers might pick up some bargains but I imagine the banks will be reverting back to 2011 and 2012 levels of mortgage lending for a good while after the health crisis ends.

    We pulled out of a deal for a property for 346k today. We have decided to wait until early next year. We should have atleast 200k deposit then.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 52 ✭✭IndieRoar111


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    depending on the seller circumstance, its not a bad strategy. Many will still want to buy and if they think, well the prices have already corrected a bit due to this virus, some might jump or even get them to make offers...

    because the prices will only go one way in my opinion, but it will be over an extended period! the property market moves at such a glacial rate, that anyone thinking this is the stock market where you will have a 15% etc drop in a day or short space of time, is seriously deluded!

    It may take some time but i wouldn't be surprised if prices dropped 30% in some areas of Dublin ( especially D7, D12, D15 ).


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,100 ✭✭✭Browney7


    This looks like an Airbnb with some desperation thrown in for good measure; https://www.daft.ie/dublin/apartments-for-rent/grand-canal-dock/32-millennium-tower-charlotte-quay-grand-canal-dock-dublin-2014730/

    €550 reduction in 2 days on Daft and from the description it was used as an Airbnb up until recently.

    One here is being very optimistic - looking for 4.5gs a month on a one, 2 or 3 month basis. https://touch.daft.ie/for-rent/apartment-apt-153-tower-block-smithfield-market-smithfield-co-dublin/2284271

    Flexible arrangement for this one - https://touch.daft.ie/for-rent/house-24-lad-lane-dublin-2-co-dublin/2284207 near linked in head office

    Preference for a short lease for this one - https://touch.daft.ie/for-rent/apartment-bachelors-walk-dublin-1-temple-bar-co-dublin/2277898 (A1 energy rating with storage heating also interesting?)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,969 ✭✭✭Assetbacked


    Browney7 wrote: »
    One here is being very optimistic - looking for 4.5gs a month on a one, 2 or 3 month basis. https://touch.daft.ie/for-rent/apartment-apt-153-tower-block-smithfield-market-smithfield-co-dublin/2284271

    Flexible arrangement for this one - https://touch.daft.ie/for-rent/house-24-lad-lane-dublin-2-co-dublin/2284207 near linked in head office

    Preference for a short lease for this one - https://touch.daft.ie/for-rent/apartment-bachelors-walk-dublin-1-temple-bar-co-dublin/2277898 (A1 energy rating with storage heating also interesting?)

    The first two will sit idle for a while at those rates (the first one is nice but not €4.5k nice, pretty small for 3 bedrooms). With a ban on travel the next few months, tourism and corporate short lets are going to be at zero. A lot of the Airbnbs are going to end up going to tenants for 12 month leases at rents which are many multiples lower than a fully booked month on Airbnb. This may lead to people happier to stay renting for longer if they can get decent places for less than the cost of a mortgage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 41 nhoj88


    antfin wrote: »
    Cash buyers might pick up some bargains but I imagine the banks will be reverting back to 2011 and 2012 levels of mortgage lending for a good while after the health crisis ends.

    What was the bank mortgage lending like back then?

    Things I guess banks were more stringent on issues like occupation, lower levels of LTV.....

    What other stringent requirements were there?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    I suspect over the next 3 months we will see a shake down on prices. When that happens it could be all bets off


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭Slydice


    Not sure I understand the scenarios where this is gonna help tenants.

    Government approves series of emergency measures to protect tenants
    Published on Thursday, 19 Mar 2020
    https://www.housing.gov.ie/housing/private-rented-housing/government-approves-series-emergency-measures-protect-tenants

    The Government has today (Thursday 19th March) approved a series of emergency measures to protect tenants who have been impacted by Covid 19. Moratoriums on evictions and rent increases are being introduced for the duration of the Covid 19 emergency, to ensure people can stay in their homes during this period. The notice period for tenancies of less than six months is also being increased from 28 to 90 days.

    The Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government, Eoghan Murphy TD, intends to publish legislation next week to amend the Residential Tenancies Act 2004-2019 to give effect to these changes.

    The emergency measures being announced today complement those announced by the 5 main retail banks yesterday, in relation to the flexibility – such as 3 month mortgage breaks – which will be offered to those with buy-to-let mortgages whose tenants have been impacted by the virus. It is the Government’s expectation that landlords will pass that flexibility on their tenants. Tenants are encouraged to engage with their landlords as quickly as possible if they are facing difficulties.

    While tenants will be expected to pay rent during this period, income supports and Rent Supplement is available to those struggling to do so. These supports are provided by the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection. Any rent arrears built up will be payable, but landlords have been asked to show forbearance and reach local arrangements in such circumstances.

    Speaking today Minister Murphy said:

    “I know that many people who are renting are worried about their living situation. I want to assure them that over the emergency period they will be able to remain in their homes. Today the government approved new measures to give the strongest possible protection to all renters at this time of national emergency. A moratorium on notices to leave rental accommodation is being introduced as is a moratorium on rent increases so that people will be safe in their homes during this period.

    “I am aware that some renters will find it very difficult to pay the rent due to the impact that COVID 19 is having on businesses and jobs. There are supports in place for people through the Rent Supplement. Yesterday’s announcement of forbearance by the banks, which I welcome, will also assist tenants in seeking support from their landlords. Early engagement by tenants in difficulty, both with their landlords and with Social Protection is key. I would like to thank the landlord and tenant organisations for their engagement and support in these measures. Notwithstanding this it is only prudent to put these temporary measures in to law, which I intend to do with the support of the Oireachtas next week.”

    Today’s announcement follows intensive engagement in recent days by Minister Murphy with both landlords and tenants organisations, as well as charities and NGOs in the housing sector. The changes being drafted will be temporary in nature, and will last for the duration of the COVID 19 crisis, after which point residential tenancies will revert to the current legislative arrangements.


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