Cleaners Protesting Outside Ardkeen

azimuth17

Royal Legend wrote: »

In relation to the porters and the kitchen staff, they came out in support yesterday, but the HSE has taken out an injunction against them and is threatening to sack them if they join the industrial action. They are having a meeting about this on Monday. Whatever decision they make will be personal and with the threat of the sack hanging over them, not a nice or an easy decision to make.

I can't speak for other people except that my experience of passing the picket to collect someone was daunting. Women walking in front of the car, shouting and waving red flags across the windscreen. A simple picket at the main entrance would be enough to draw attention to the cleaner's situation, but all entrances are picketed although I only know two entrances. This is intimidating and obviously meant to pressurise other staff who must pass picket and this has led to the HSE injunction. The people on picket seem to have forgotten that this is the largest public health facility in the south east at a time of a possible deadly pandemic. This is guaranteed to destroy sympathy for the cause and the striking workers, but not unexpected from UNITE in my experience. I don't agree with categorising any workers group as scum or as lower working class or what ever in a difficult situation like this, it is gratuitously offensive.

Gaspode

Referringto other humans as evil scum or any other name-calling is not tolerated. Any more will result in insta-ban, consider this a final warning

Royal Legend

azimuth17 wrote: »

I can't speak for other people except that my experience of passing the picket to collect someone was daunting. Women walking in front of the car, shouting and waving red flags across the windscreen. A simple picket at the main entrance would be enough to draw attention to the cleaner's situation, but all entrances are picketed although I only know two entrances. This is intimidating and obviously meant to pressurise other staff who must pass picket and this has led to the HSE injunction. The people on picket seem to have forgotten that this is the largest public health facility in the south east at a time of a possible deadly pandemic. This is guaranteed to destroy sympathy for the cause and the striking workers, but not unexpected from UNITE in my experience. I don't agree with categorising any workers group as scum or as lower working class or what ever in a difficult situation like this, it is gratuitously offensive.

No real knowledge of UNITE, i have never been in a union and see them as an issue in some places especially multinationals, but also am aware that they can be good where workers are being bullied or treated poorly.
From what i can see, Momentum are intent in getting rid of any cleaners in a trade union, they are been looking for a fight since they won the hospital contract. In every walk of life there are good and bad, sorry to hear you felt intimidated last week. My relation has seen no issues on the picket.
When the nurses were out my family connection would not pass the picket, did they feel intimidated? i think they did, because they would have felt bad crossing any kind of picket, so is feeling bad about crossing a picket intimidation? I know from my contact that most have no issue with workers in the hospital crossing the picket, they know some are reliant on a wage and cannot afford to not go into work.#
The issue is with Momentum and their treatment of the cleaners and the two tier system of the new staff they are bringing in. Again, they have nothing against the new staff, but believe that they should be on the same wage as they are. Is this not a similar issue to the wages of say a new qualified teacher and an existing one, being disproportionate which is an ongoing argument in that area?
P.S the lifting of the bags issue IMO has been badly handled by UNITE, the bags are heavy and other staff, mainly men have been taking them away in the past. its not as straightforward as some seem to portray it, as a man would you ask your wife or mother to lift a heavy load of any kind?

notfromhere

There must be a different picket on in Waterford. People were being spat at, footpaths were being blocked.people were stoped from receiving appointments.other staff have being abused.Some cleaners them can't even look after themselves, let alone clean a ward.Now there are only a small few of them that are doing this.By far most of the cleaners are decent hard working.But by god there are a few of them that ruin it for other people.

Wanderer2010

Motivator wrote: »

I was in the hospital this afternoon and on the way in I passed an angry group of people protesting about their pay. I understand these people are meant to be the cleaners in the hospital? My word, some of these people look as if they can’t clean themselves never mind a public hospital. What exactly are they complaining about? I was speaking to a hospital employee who said it got very heated because someone had said to the group that if they did a proper job cleaning then they’d get a proper wage.

Wow, you made a complete and utter sweeping judgment about a group of workers based 100% on how they appeared during a protest? And you have amazing insight into the facts and what is behind their anger, that too also based on "I was speaking to a hospital employee", I mean, never let the facts get in the way of a statement eh? To add insult to injury, you make a personal comment about their appearance too. You are wasted doing whatever it is you do, OP, you should be in the Labour Court making judgments on employment law.

Did you maybe stop to think that you don't have a fcuking clue what you are talking about?

Royal Legend

notfromhere wrote: »

There must be a different picket on in Waterford. People were being spat at, footpaths were being blocked.people were stoped from receiving appointments.other staff have being abused.Some cleaners them can't even look after themselves, let alone clean a ward.Now there are only a small few of them that are doing this.By far most of the cleaners are decent hard working.But by god there are a few of them that ruin it for other people.

Complete BS, someone being spat at is a criminal offence, if this happened it should be reported to the Garda, that it has not says to me that this is a lie. Did it happen to you? Do you know who it happened to or is it just something you heard from a mate? Very similar type of comment to the ones earlier about rocks being thrown etc.

spookwoman

No affiliation with the hospital or cleaners.

Royal Legend

barraseaclaid wrote: »

From what I can see (and you can take it or leave it): the workers who transferred over from ISS to momentum are upset because they are now being held to account over their existing work practices which to put it bluntly, are not up to scratch!
Some personal observations (as a long term hospital employee, obviously don't want to give too much identifying information)
- Female cleaning staff in certain areas of the hospital not empting domestic bins/waste stating that "that is man's work"
- Staff on a four hour shift (4.30pm to 8.30pm approx) standing around until they can gain access to office areas at 5pm (ISS tried to change the shift times to match office hours but there were IR issues around this)
-Same staff on shift above on tea break for up to 30min (no entitlement to same based on length of shift, but just enough time to watch their nightly dose of Corrie before heading home)

- during washing of floors staff washing around desk chairs and not moving them to wash underneath, generally doing the bare minimum to ensure the supervisor doesn't cotton on)

My personal highlight....
During one of the recent "switch it off" campaigns to reduce the hospital's energy impact I asked the cleaner if they could switch off the lights on the way out of a room after cleaning it. They refused as they are not paid to do it!!!!

During the strike momentum have drafted in auxillary staff to cover and I hate to say it but where I work has never been cleaner, floors washed, countertops wiped down, glass on doors cleaned, door handles, mirrors surfaces all cleaned, compared with the quick sweep and mop of the usual crowd.

And as far as the actions of the strikers themselves...they should be ashamed of their carry on. When the nurses were out they did it in a dignified and peaceful manner.

These guys have so far:
Blocked the footpath for wheelchair users at the main entrance by parking a car on the footpath at the zebra crossing
Stopped antenatal patients from driving through the picket to get to their appointments
Blocked vans delivering blood to the hospital from getting through until security were called to escort.

Whatever level of understanding I had for these guys by means of a peaceful picket has been eroded by these actions.

Hate to tell you, someone has figured out who you are :cool:

Here is an interesting post of yours from a month ago, my personal highlight

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=112382877

Absolute classic. So, someone that either cannot or does not even want to clean their own house, comments on people who have to clean for a living, go figure.
Are you too busy to be able to clean your own house or do you just like the idea of looking superior or maybe fitting in with your friends by having hired help?
Or maybe you are one of the many overpaid people employed by the HSE to walk around the hospital with a clipboard looking important, but actually doing sweet FA.
Must be great to look down on the lower class masses from your ivory tower.

Motivator

Royal Legend wrote: »

as a man would you ask your wife or mother to lift a heavy load of any kind?

I’d be disappointed if they’re receiving a wage for cleaning and they refuse to clean.

spookwoman

Motivator wrote: »

I’d be disappointed if they’re receiving a wage for cleaning and they refuse to clean.

Every company works that way if someone isn't doing the job they were hired to do they get fired.

Royal Legend

spookwoman wrote: »

No affiliation with the hospital or cleaners.

spookwoman wrote: »

Every company works that way if someone isn't doing the job they were hired to do they get fired.

And you also do not know what you are talking about.
The cleaners are not contracted to lift the heavy bags, so you cannot fire someone for asking them to do something that is not in their contract, it might sound petty, but you need to actually go in to the hospital and look at the bags in question, other than that you are just another person with a misinformed opinion.

debok

Royal Legend wrote: »

Hate to tell you, someone has figured out who you are :cool:

Here is an interesting post of yours from a month ago, my personal highlight

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=112382877

Absolute classic. So, someone that either cannot or does not even want to clean their own house, comments on people who have to clean for a living, go figure.
Are you too busy to be able to clean your own house or do you just like the idea of looking superior or maybe fitting in with your friends by having hired help?
Or maybe you are one of the many overpaid people employed by the HSE to walk around the hospital with a clipboard looking important, but actually doing sweet FA.
Must be great to look down on the lower class masses from your ivory tower.

By threatening the posters anonymity your kinda giving people ammunition to say the strikers are being a bit bullish in there actions.

Motivator

Royal Legend wrote: »

And you also do not know what you are talking about.
The cleaners are not contracted to lift the heavy bags, so you cannot fire someone for asking them to do something that is not in their contract, it might sound petty, but you need to actually go in to the hospital and look at the bags in question, other than that you are just another person with a misinformed opinion.

So you’re trying to tell me that it’s in individual contracts, signed by female only cleaning staff, that they don’t have to empty bins? Really? That’s what you’re saying?

The menacing eyes you get off them makes me sick. Ive been visiting my dad for the last 3 weeks and they stare at you as if you are breaking a picket line scabbing. The floor outside the ward he is in is filthy since I've been visiting. The actual fuc*ing neck, like.

Crusty Blaa

Royal Legend wrote: »

Hate to tell you, someone has figured out who you are :cool:

Here is an interesting post of yours from a month ago, my personal highlight

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=112382877

Absolute classic. So, someone that either cannot or does not even want to clean their own house, comments on people who have to clean for a living, go figure.
Are you too busy to be able to clean your own house or do you just like the idea of looking superior or maybe fitting in with your friends by having hired help?
Or maybe you are one of the many overpaid people employed by the HSE to walk around the hospital with a clipboard looking important, but actually doing sweet FA.
Must be great to look down on the lower class masses from your ivory tower.

Who's the keyboard warrior now.

Royal Legend

debok wrote: »

By threatening the posters anonymity your kinda giving giving people ammunition to say the strikers are being a bit bullish in there actions.

Not threatening anyone and I am not one of the strikers either, just think that it is a bit rich (excuse the pun) that someone who works in the hospital, earning a hell of a lot more than €12.29/hour, cannot or will not clean their own house, is able to ridicule people who clean for a living.
There are a hell of a lot of decent people who clean out in that hospital, there is an element in any environment, whether that be the hospital, a factory or any other place of work, but certain posters on here seem to like painting everyone with the same brush and there is definitely people on here that look down on cleaners as an underclass, which i find disgusting. Like i posted earlier, maybe they should try it themselves to see what is involved or maybe live off the wages they earn.

Motivator

Royal Legend wrote: »

Hate to tell you, someone has figured out who you are :cool:

Here is an interesting post of yours from a month ago, my personal highlight

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=112382877

Absolute classic. So, someone that either cannot or does not even want to clean their own house, comments on people who have to clean for a living, go figure.
Are you too busy to be able to clean your own house or do you just like the idea of looking superior or maybe fitting in with your friends by having hired help?
Or maybe you are one of the many overpaid people employed by the HSE to walk around the hospital with a clipboard looking important, but actually doing sweet FA.
Must be great to look down on the lower class masses from your ivory tower.

Spoken like a true floor cleaner.

Royal Legend

Crusty Blaa wrote: »

Who's the keyboard warrior now.

If that is part of what a keyboard warrior is, then guilty as charged.

Especially if it helps highlighting the pure hypocrisy of some of the posters on here that have ridiculed a section of our community here in Waterford.

Crusty Blaa

Royal Legend wrote: »

If that is part of what a keyboard warrior is, then guilty as charged.

Especially if it helps highlighting the pure hypocrisy of some of the posters on here that have ridiculed a section of our community here in Waterford.

I don't intend to paint all the strikers with the same brush but there have been enough indications that there are some on the picket who have been out of line in their actions towards patients and other hospital staff. As I mentioned already, my family member was made feel very uncomfortable walking into work the other day with some nasty comments said in passing. That's not right but I suppose you'll think she was lying.

Micky Bluenips

Royal Legend wrote: »

If that is part of what a keyboard warrior is, then guilty as charged.

Especially if it helps highlighting the pure hypocrisy of some of the posters on here that have ridiculed a section of our community here in Waterford.

Posters are going way over the line and some of the comments have been disgraceful because I'm sure must really haven't a clue what there talking about. But that's what message boards are all about. Think about it there's only 7 or 8 posters being nasty, in the real world that's not a whole lot and there only being nasty because there anonymous . We all do it at some stage . Just laugh it off but dont say someone knows who you are because I'd say them nasty posters are scouring through your old messages like you did to that other lad.

spookwoman

Royal Legend wrote: »

Not threatening anyone and I am not one of the strikers either, just think that it is a bit rich (excuse the pun) that someone who works in the hospital, earning a hell of a lot more than €12.29/hour, cannot or will not clean their own house, is able to ridicule people who clean for a living..

WTF has that got to do with what's happening down there. If someone wants to hire a cleaner to help them out that is their prerogative and none of your business.

Royal Legend wrote: »

There are a hell of a lot of decent people who clean out in that hospital, there is an element in any environment, whether that be the hospital, a factory or any other place of work, but certain posters on here seem to like painting everyone with the same brush and there is definitely people on here that look down on cleaners as an underclass, which i find disgusting. Like i posted earlier, maybe they should try it themselves to see what is involved or maybe live off the wages they earn.

I haven't see anyone say that cleaners are the underclass the only one I see saying that is you.

Royal Legend wrote: »

And you also do not know what you are talking about.
The cleaners are not contracted to lift the heavy bags, so you cannot fire someone for asking them to do something that is not in their contract, it might sound petty, but you need to actually go in to the hospital and look at the bags in question, other than that you are just another person with a misinformed opinion.

Do you even work in the hospital, more importantly are you a cleaner because you sound like you are just trying to defend someone who does work there.

Ref the contract and work to rule I doubt not picking up rubbish off the ground in A+E and trying to chat down the minutes till you get off early is in the contract either. Can you provide a copy of the contract where it specifically says you are not to lift a bag.

Gaspode

Royal Legend wrote: »

Hate to tell you, someone has figured out who you are :cool: .

This sort of behaviour is not on, discuss the topic on hand. What another user posts elsewhere is not relevant. Its a dick move tbh, dont do it again

mooseknunkle

He said a lot worse than they are underclass.

spookwoman wrote: »

WTF has that got to do with what's happening down there. If someone wants to hire a cleaner to help them out that is their prerogative and none of your business.



I haven't see anyone say that cleaners are the underclass the only one I see saying that is you.



Do you even work in the hospital, more importantly are you a cleaner because you sound like you are just trying to defend someone who does work there.

Ref the contract and work to rule I doubt not picking up rubbish off the ground in A+E and trying to chat down the minutes till you get off early is in the contract either. Can you provide a copy of the contract where it specifically says you are not to lift a bag.

Motivator wrote: »

That is shocking but not very surprising. The hygiene in Ardkeen has been appalling for years now and the personal hygiene of some of the cleaning staff leaves a lot to be desired. I had a brief stay as a patient a number of years ago and the cleaner used the same rag to clean the windows, the sink, taps and then the trays on each of the beds in the ward.

I didn’t know the exact reason why they were protesting this week but if it’s for the reasons you stated above then that it absolutely outrageous. They are not HSE staff, they’re bottom of the pile so why not sack them all and bring in people who will actually do the job they are being paid to do?

Motivator wrote: »

I was in the hospital this afternoon and on the way in I passed an angry group of people protesting about their pay. I understand these people are meant to be the cleaners in the hospital? My word, some of these people look as if they can’t clean themselves never mind a public hospital. What exactly are they complaining about? I was speaking to a hospital employee who said it got very heated because someone had said to the group that if they did a proper job cleaning then they’d get a proper wage.

Motivator wrote: »

Funnily enough I heard this morning that a brick was thrown at a car/van out there the other day. Sack all of them, wasters.

Royal Legend

Crusty Blaa wrote: »

I don't intend to paint all the strikers with the same brush but there have been enough indications that there are some on the picket who have been out of line in their actions towards patients and other hospital staff. As I mentioned already, my family member was made feel very uncomfortable walking into work the other day with some nasty comments said in passing. That's not right but I suppose you'll think she was lying.

I am not in a union, i would feel intimidated crossing any picket and would personally avoid doing so if possible.
Its not right if someone you know has got snide comments when going into work, i agree 100 % with you. there are elements in all walks of life, the person i know has not seen or heard anything out of order while they have been on the picket, that's not to say it has not happened, its the ones where they "heard" or make up a story that a brick was thrown, stones thrown, people spat at, which is definitely fictitious, unless someone can come forward and say it happened to them. I have a family member there also being tarred with a brush, so apologies to you if my anger is misdirected.

Royal Legend

spookwoman wrote: »

WTF has that got to do with what's happening down there. If someone wants to hire a cleaner to help them out that is their prerogative and none of your business.



I haven't see anyone say that cleaners are the underclass the only one I see saying that is you.



Do you even work in the hospital, more importantly are you a cleaner because you sound like you are just trying to defend someone who does work there.

Ref the contract and work to rule I doubt not picking up rubbish off the ground in A+E and trying to chat down the minutes till you get off early is in the contract either. Can you provide a copy of the contract where it specifically says you are not to lift a bag.

You really need to read back over the posts, some of them have been edited now as they called the cleaners a lot worse, so yes i am defending someone and other people i know out there, that are being accused of spitting at people, throwing bricks at cars etc. i doubt watching Corrie is in the contract either and i have no doubt it does go on with a few individuals, so a couple of per cent gives people the right to ridicule the other 98%, i don't think so.
and as I don't work there i hardly can show you a copy of a work contract.

wsopchamp

Royal Legend wrote: »

First of all they do not earn €13 + per hour, they earn €10.80 + a site rate of €1.49 = 12.29/hr.
my apologies , i thought they were on more. Not fantastic but still above way above min wage.

have to say this tread is getting nasty.i work in hospital and have passed the picket on all gates numerous times and no issues with it. i think people are nervous passing and automatically have a bad feeling and pick up on every little thing.
i for one have no idea why momentum cleaners are out on strike only what i have heard throughout the hospital .I think Unite union has a lot to answer for here ,expecting its member to vote on all out industrial action while ill informed on the whole situation.

regarding the cleaners there ,i see them on a daily basis and to be honest the vast majority of them do their job well, but as in all jobs there are a few that try to get away with doing nothing , everyone knows who they are but when push comes to shove are unable to stand up and tell them they are useless and will back them if they get into trouble.( this is not pointed at cleaners in UHW , just workers in general in all jobs, usually the biggest wingers are the biggest wasters )

hope all is resolved soon and we can get back to living in harmony once again

Royal Legend

wsopchamp wrote: »

Royal Legend wrote: »

First of all they do not earn €13 + per hour, they earn €10.80 + a site rate of €1.49 = 12.29/hr.
my apologies , i thought they were on more. Not fantastic but still above way above min wage.

have to say this tread is getting nasty.i work in hospital and have passed the picket on all gates numerous times and no issues with it. i think people are nervous passing and automatically have a bad feeling and pick up on every little thing.
i for one have no idea why momentum cleaners are out on strike only what i have heard throughout the hospital .I think Unite union has a lot to answer for here ,expecting its member to vote on all out industrial action while ill informed on the whole situation.

regarding the cleaners there ,i see them on a daily basis and to be honest the vast majority of them do their job well, but as in all jobs there are a few that try to get away with doing nothing , everyone knows who they are but when push comes to shove are unable to stand up and tell them they are useless and will back them if they get into trouble.( this is not pointed at cleaners in UHW , just workers in general in all jobs, usually the biggest wingers are the biggest wasters )

hope all is resolved soon and we can get back to living in harmony once again

Thanks, exactly my sentiments, just have not articulated them as well as you have .

debok

mooseknunkle wrote: »

He said a lot worse than they are underclass.

Jaysus that's some spew of horrible comments.
Hate to have that hatred towards a group of people I dont kniw. He's the op and didn't know who the group were at the start but few comments later he's seems to know exactly the type of people they are. Best ignored

Royal Legend

debok wrote: »

Jaysus that's some spew of horrible comments.
Hate to have that hatred towards a group of people I dont kniw. He's the op and didn't know who the group were at the start but few comments later he's seems to know exactly the type of people they are. Best ignored

I have not responded directly to any of his posts all day.

azimuth17

As a case of the Coronavirus has now been confirmed in the east of this country I would expect the dispute to be called off immediately and referred to the WRC or Labour Court or whoever can help. Failure to do so will be the height of irresponsibility.