General British politics discussion thread

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118916979#Comment_118916979

What an idiotic comment. Firstly, because it shows what an archaic view he has of the modern work environment (people drinking in staff rooms isn't a thing anymore and hasn't been for decades) but also to pick front-line health care workers for his comparison - the very people who had the most dangerous, stressful and arduous jobs during the worst of the Pandemic. Twitter is full of irate doctors and nurses recounting what their work days were like back then and incredulous at the thought that they would be drinking in hospitals.

Surely at this stage the government realise that the likes of Fabricant and Dorries do more harm than good and yet they continue to allow them to go out and defend Johnson. I can only assume it's because there are not many other willing takers for that job.

farmerval

I said way way back in the Brexit thread how the Tories were handcuffed to Boris. The shafting of middle ground and non Boris supporters for the last election, and a cabinet where your ability to defend the indefensible and humiliate yourself on Boris' behalf are the qualifying criteria leave him completely unchallenged.

Not one Tory peeped over the parapet yesterday to condemn Johnson. Like the Republicans with Trump, they've handed the party over to the most untrustworthy Lieutenant possible.

Brussels Sprout

Surely at this stage the government realise that the likes of Fabricant and Dorries do more harm than good and yet they continue to allow them to go out and defend Johnson. I can only assume it's because there are not many other willing takers for that job.

I saw an interesting theory there about Fabricant and why it is that he's always the one wheeled out after Johnson has made some colossal political error. They pointed out that "his" hair appears to be even larger and more unnaturally coloured than before. The theory is that the viewer's attention is drawn to this fact and away from the matter at hand. Johnson has always been a fan of Lynton Crosby's "dead cat on the table" strategy of deflection and this is just that on a smaller scale.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118921928#Comment_118921928

So his wig is quite literally a dead cat 🤣

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118921047#Comment_118921047

We had 1 Tory MP Nigel Mills calling for his resignation and the justice minister has just stepped down. Not exactly a tidal wave of condemnation.

farmerval

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118922417#Comment_118922417

War in Ukraine obviously needs Boris so for the good of Europe the Tories will not boot out Boris, 😂😂

The more interesting thing is that other than Liz Truss (who I wouldn't trust in a dark room) is the only viable alternative. Sunak's stupidity has clobbered him. It's hard to see any other alternative. Sometime soon Labour are going to have start producing policies that will connect with people, even with all the scandals and Starmer finally looking like a leader, Labour need much more to win the next election. For now just pointing at the Tories incompetence and dishonesty is enough but it won't win a general election.

For those who know British Elections better than me, is there possibility of Labour making big gains in the local elections? Could they take control of more cities or areas?

Headshot

The UK Government is expected to unveil plans to fly asylum seekers to Rwanda for processing aiming to tackle small boat crossing

Wow, im kinda speechless. I thought this Government couldn't get any more deplorable

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118923955#Comment_118923955

The main problem with the next set of local elections is that, by and large, they aren't Conservative seats. They are councils/districts which were won by other parties in the last cycle (2018 I guess) at a time when the Tories were at a low ebb. Which limits the amount of 'Dunny-on-the-Wold, Labour gain control from Conservative' banners at the bottom of the screen. Obviously the percentages and seats could still be poor.

The map on this page will give you a better idea of what I mean. Most of the councils being voted on are London, Wales and Scotland where they don't have a huge lot to defend - there's very little up for grabs in the 'Tory heartland' territory where any losses would have been significant.

2022 United Kingdom local elections - Wikipedia

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118924008#Comment_118924008

Do you believe it is a coincidence that this absurdness is being announced now?

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118924302#Comment_118924302

Well, in fairness, this is an abomination which has been announced many times before, sometimes with respect to other countries - Ghana, and I think Albania, have been mentioned.

There is no depravity to which this government will not stoop, and pretty well any week you care to pick you can find them doing something unspeakable. So I don't think the government had to schedule this abomination for when the fines story broke; regardless of when it broke, they could be reasonably confident that there would be some abomination coming down the tracks that would serve to distract.

Basically, the policy of this government is to be constantly throwing dead cats on the table, because they know there will be steady flow of moral depravities from which they need to deflect attention.

The Tories were once a serious political party with, whether you liked it or not, a vision for the UK. But now they are reduced to a shower of shysters who smell like a rat that's a week dead.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118894667#Comment_118894667

The UK and the incredible volume of effective and very expensive weapons is the reason why the Russian flag isn't over Kyiv.

They left every one else standing far behind.

Countries like Germany, Austria, Italy are viewed by the Ukrainian as in the other camp.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118924416#Comment_118924416

While that's what the UK media would like you to think, in actuality by far the biggest supplier of military support to Ukraine is the US. Then, in a distant second, Poland. Then the UK. The UK contribution is impressive, and to the UK's credit, but it doesn't have quite the importance the UK media, and in particular the Johnson boosters, would like you to think. And it doesn't change the fact that when it comes to supporting Ukraine via sanctions, the UK is only middling, and when it comes to receiving Ukrainian refugees, it's piss-poor.

(And, of course, whatever the strengths and weaknesses of the UK's record here, the notion that it is dependent on Johnson being and remaning in office is pretty silly. The Ukrainian cause enjoys widespread support in the Tory party, in Parliament, in the media and in public opinion generally, and it's entirely possible that a competent and honest PM could provide as effective, or more effective, support for Ukraine than Johnson does.)

devnull

After yesterday the Daily Mail going on the attack about people going on about trivial things such as Boris lying and breaking the law when they should be focusing on the war, it was going to be interesting to see what the Mail focused on today.

As you can see, no mention of the very important war, and the burning issue of if it is right to order fish on the first date is deemed more important.

Laughable isn't it. And that's before you start talking about the obvious dead cat the Tory press have been fed about Rwanda

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118923955#Comment_118923955

Labour have been ahead in poll be around 6% since November but yet we keep getting this regurgitated narrative that they are failing.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118924392#Comment_118924392

While I'm broadly in agreement, I would reject the notion that this is any kind of "dead cat", or even that the govt actively plans to use these announcements as "dead cat"s (I phrase I admittedly despise). This is pure ideological driven stuff for the current Home Office and Priti Patel. They don't think this is a distraction, they think this is absolutely wonderful.

All the talk of dead cats etc ascribes far too much agency and planning to the govt when the reality is that they are grossly incompetent and have fairly disgusting priorities.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118925714#Comment_118925714

I think we're in broad agreement. This isn't a carefully-planned dead cat tactic; it's just the kind of thing this government does all the time. As it happens, it can function very effectively as a dead cat, but that would be true of a wide range of their policies.

Tl;dr; they do not do cruel things to distract from political embarrassment; they do cruel things because they are cruel people.

Brussels Sprout

by-election incoming. Labour held that seat for 80 years prior to 2019 so almost certainly they'll take that back.

https://twitter.com/PoliticsJOE_UK/status/1514639114884239360

Aside: Terrible week politically for people named Imran Kahn

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118927456#Comment_118927456

Ha that's a fairly trolling picture for Joe to use.

Wakefield is so old school Yorkshire mining town that the Mining Museum is there and the Red Shed Working Men's club is still one of the biggest venues in town. Can't see them being ok with Johnson post Brexit. Khan was also not the first choice candidate as the original guy was booted for racist and sexist tweeting.

So after the racist and the rapist the Tories will really be scraping the barrel in Wakey

Completely pointless unrelated trivia but Wakefield is where This Sporting Life staring Richard Harris is based.

salonfire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118924392#Comment_118924392

If it decreases cross Channel migration, reduces death and strips the smugglers of their business, would you still call it an abomination?

What else are the UK to do?

I'm actually impressed with the bold measure they are proposing.

Nody

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118928229#Comment_118928229

What exactly are you impressed with? The increased cost per person for Britain to handle claimants and the related cost? The increased charges the smugglers will charge to get people over the channel? Because it will make sod all difference to the people trying to get over the channel in deterring them (they already faced deportation as it was).

devnull

I'm pretty sure that this policy is not simply about having something that works.

Local elections are coming up and the Tory party has been associated with scandal after scandal. A policy like the one they have announced today, not only serves as a dead cat to cover a couple of other scandals, but also plays very well with the Tory Brexit supporting base.

Boris Johnson was directly trying to link it to Brexit today because he knows it is a vote winner. As sad as it is to say, I know a few Tory supporting people including some of my family, and a fair few of them were certainly not going to vote Tory in the local elections. This policy appears to have won at least some of them back over.

You have to remember, for the Tory party and Johnson the mantra is that they basically don't care how they stay in power, as long as they do and nothing is off the table in order to achieve that.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118928229#Comment_118928229

The UKs refugee problem is tiny and very manageable compared to the mainland European countries. This is all just posturing and playing to the base.

Also Rwanda is a dictatorship and not somewhere any country should be sending vulnerable people to.

The nationalists in the UK love pounding their chests about "giving Gerry a bloody nose" 80 years ago but seem to want to do fk all about doing their bit in 2022. An absolute shower of back turning cowards is all the right are in the UK these days.

retalivity

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118928229#Comment_118928229

The smugglers are paid long before anyone gets near the white cliffs of dover, and people will be desperate enough to take the chance they wont get caught. The other winners are Rwanda, getting paid to take in people, who will then also probably be indentured into the workforce. If you thought direct provision was bad...

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118921928#Comment_118921928

Fabricant makes Johnson look sane (and with sensible hair) by contrast; that has to be a major part of it.

devnull

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118928932#Comment_118928932

I really wonder what will happen with these people after they arrive in Rwanda, as the from what a Tory MP told Farage this evening, once these people go to Rwanda, the UK's involvement with them ends and it's a matter for the Rwandan government.

HalloweenJack

I haven't looked into the details but the obvious question is what does Rawanda get out of it?

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118929540#Comment_118929540

Money.....and lots of it...120m up front then who knows how much more.

Hermy

Also, why Rwanda?

It's a landlocked country in the middle of another continent and just seems like such an unlikely venue for the processing of immigrants traveling to the UK.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118929684#Comment_118929684

UK shopped it around is my guess and they made the lowball offer. It could be there weren't too many takers on the offer, or Rwanda proposed it too.

Hermy

Maybe this is what they mean by Global Britain!