General British politics discussion thread

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119031110#Comment_119031110

I take your point, I do, and would never say never, but I just don't see that kind of ... I dunno, institutional unrest that's baked into French politics as I do the UK. Plus IIRC, the French President is more equivalent to the American one and a wildcard could effect more significant changes than a UK PM. Previous attempts at riots or revolution were squashed quite ruthlessly based on sketchy UK history remembrance, the sole example ending up a tyrant in Cromwell. They're quite proud of the fact their government is one of the most continuous and unbroken in the world. It just all feels like there's a cultural blocker, as well as a systemic one, that acts as a bulwark against the kind of wild swings you get on the continent.

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119031835#Comment_119031835

Indeed it would but would their voters then be happy with them aligning with the new theoretical UKIP/Brexit party when surely it makes more sense politically to go Lib Dem as a coalition partner in this hypothetical scenario?

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119027701#Comment_119027701

If Brexit was a backlash against fabricated problems, I wonder what the backlash to real rot and inequality will be.

I read in Tim Shipman's last book that the swing age at which people become statistically more inclined to vote Tory than Labour in 2015 was 34. In 2017, it was 49. I think there's a lot there.

While no country has yet to solve the inequality crisis, Johnson and his colleagues handing out lavish contracts to their chums just shows that they can't even pretend to care. There's no future generation of Tory voters in the making, hence the desperate trotting out of the culture war at every opportunity.

hotmail.com

Is Keir Starmer about to resign today?

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119035644#Comment_119035644

Why would he? He did nothing wrong.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119035788#Comment_119035788

Knives are out for him within his own party it seems.

Nody

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119035808#Comment_119035808

In Labour that appears to be the constant state of things (only my oppinion at a glance and not something I've looked into deeply) and while there are knives out in Tory they tend to be cloaked until they have the critical numbers.

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119035808#Comment_119035808

Not from what im seeing, many do seem to be suggesting that he maybe declares that if found to have broken the law he will resign putting Boris right up against it. Thats why The conservatives are suddenly panicking about their previous self proclaimed PR victory in getting beergate to be so big because if Starmer is willing to fall on his sword then Boris will look even worse if he still refuses to go. Basically as usual with the tories they didnt think this through really at all.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/rees-mogg-starmer-should-not-quit-over-beergate_uk_62780353e4b009a811c4f509

Sam Russell

Nicola Sturgeon coming to Starmer's defence claiming it is a distraction attempt to divert attention from Tory woes.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119035644#Comment_119035644

Why on earth would he resign today?

The absolute worst case scenario for him personally is that he will make a statement saying he will resign if he receives a FPN.

hotmail.com

Starmer is considering resigning if he receives a fine, according to reports.

hotmail.com

It seems to be a case of Starmer looking for his own resignation.

devnull

Now being reported that CCHQ have told Government MPs not to talk about Starmer needing to resign anymore. It's almost like they realise they may have dug themselves into somewhat of a hole on the matter over the past few days.

If Starmer gets fined now then Labour will paint themselves out as the party with integrity who resign when found to be doing the wrong thing, distancing themselves from a Tory party who breaks the law and just carries on s normal over and over again.

If Starmer doesn't get fined then basically he still has the moral high ground because of the fact he can point that he wasn't fined and Boris Johnson was, which means if the Sue Gray report comes out after investigation into himself, he can use this to attack the Tories.

For the Tories, best outcome for this is he's found guilty and stays in post as this plays into the whole, they're all the same narrative that the Daily Mail have been desperate to portray over recent weeks, where they have forgotten there is a war going on.

Brussels Sprout

https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1523665523812282368

Very interesting. Starmer must be a gambler.

So either he doesn't receive a fine and the Tories cannot accuse him of being a hypocrite

OR he gets the fine, destroys his career and in the process makes Johnson look bad - but since Johnson has no shame he still won't resign.

Not sure I'd go for this if I was Starmer. He must be pretty confident that he won't get that fine.

Ahwell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119036768#Comment_119036768

Well yes, any normal politician would. Hence why him doing so would heap even more pressure on Johnson - not less. I don't think it will come to this, as I don't think Starmer did anything that merits a fine.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119036989#Comment_119036989

And, its been Bojo's absolute mishandling of this that's given Starmer this opportunity to look good. When's the Sue Gray report due? When the Met Police finish the investigation?

Starmer doing this also brings Partygate back into focus. Labor flogging that is basically picking low-hanging fruit for them. The gift that keeps giving.

VinLieger

This also means if they can catch the tories trying to interfere with the investigation to now stop Starmer being fined they can hammer them with that too. Brilliant politics by Labour and a fair set of balls on Starmer. CCHQ id say are feeling pretty stupid arfter their big claims of victory for originally making beergate into such a big deal as no matter what happens now Labour win in the publics eyes.

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119035837#Comment_119035837

As much as it would highlight the hypocrisy of the Tories, I think Starmer is too self interested to do something like that for the good of the party and country, just like Boris was. Given that he's already wildly unpopular with Labour grassroots and that they've failed to make any inroads under his leadership in the local elections despite the total implosion of the Tories, instead leaving it to the Lib Dems and Greens to make all the gains (along with Welsh Labour under vastly different leadership), there may be more appetite among his MPs to push him than there was among Tories to push Boris.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119037034#Comment_119037034

Did you copy and paste this straight from CCHQ or edit it a bit yourself first.

I'de say the people of West London and the 200+ new Labour councillors would be wetting themselves at your "no inroads" comment.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119037034#Comment_119037034

This is a both sides argument.

Even for a politician, Johnson is spectacularly disastrous. He's saved solely by the bungling "Boris" character he's created to trick people into believing he's one of them. Starmer is unpopular with the Labour left which means he must be doing something right. It's far too broad a party but such is life under FPTP.

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119037034#Comment_119037034

Is he unpopular with the grass roots? I mean if you're talking about the Momentum crew then sure anyone apart from Corbyn was going to be unpopular but that crowd were the worst thing to happen to Labour, electorally, in years. Thanks to them the UK ended up with this current government.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119037170#Comment_119037170

Starmer is unpopular with the Labour left which means he must be doing something right.

Doing things "right" will upset the left in fairness 😜

I like that with Starmer clearly ahead in the polls the Tory bots have had to shift from "useless" to unpopular with his own party.

Anything I suppose to stop people thinking about the 400 Tories that just lost their jobs.

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119037092#Comment_119037092

In England the Tories lost 339 seats, the Lib Dems gained 193, the Greens gained 63 and Labour gained just 22.

Like I said, Labour failed to make any inroads from the Tory implosion in England and most of their gains were in Wales where Mark Drakeford has been doing a far better job. You should probably look at the results and get a grasp of the facts before embarrassing yourself and throwing out insults.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119037355#Comment_119037355

Gains and losses depend on the starting point. It is always good to pick your starting point to suit your argument as the previous election could have been a high point for Labour.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119037355#Comment_119037355

Sorry I forget Wales doesn't count cause it suits your argument.

It was well known that this election was mostly about Labour holds because those were the seats up. Tories lost 397 and Labour gained 234. Labour also elected 3064 to Tories 1380 because again it was mostly Labour seats up.

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119036950#Comment_119036950

Ok so reading more about this it seems that Starmer would have had to go anyway if he got a fine since he made such an issue of Johnson getting one. Therefore by getting out ahead of it with his press conference he has made a virtue out of it and shown Johnson in a terrible light by contrast. Very nice strategy.

devnull

So I see the Tory tactics after the latest development appear to be

• Accuse Starmer of putting pressure on the police to find him innocent. This has already been mooted by some that work for the Daily Mail, which is laughable considering they've been openly pressuring the police themselves for a fortnight
• State that Starmer is being slippery because he might be guilty without being fined and he should resign if they imply he might have done something unwise but not enough to result in a fine.

The second one is pathetic, and basically implies that as well as him either being innocent or guilty, there is a third option which is basically 'got off' which is a get out of jail card for the right win press.

Of course, this new 'got off' option about being guilty but not fined, never was one that came up during Johnson's situation, and you can be sure if he was not fined for it, they would have said if you are not guilty you have to be innocent.

And in any case, if the Mail go after Starmer for not quitting when he wasn't find because he got off, that's hugely hypocritical considering that Johnson has actually been fined and has accepted that he is guilty by not appealing it.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119038169#Comment_119038169

The Mail doesn't like Labour.

I think we've established that fact.

HalloweenJack

At first glance, it seems bonkers but the more I look at it, it seems like a master stroke.

I can't see how it'll damage Labour in the public eye. If he isn't fined, he can argue he was absolved. If he is fined and he resigns then it brings up the topic again and pushes the focus onto Bojo once more.

Whatever happens, he has some pair on him.

salonfire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119040221#Comment_119040221

Why couldn't Starmer, you know, obeyed the rules at the time and stop being such a hypocrite? Do you think that many people who had to work during lockdown enjoyed beer and curry with colleagues? No. My office had gathering places roped off. He is in the minority and therefore very much in the wrong as well.