General British politics discussion thread

PommieBast

Wakefield declaration expected 04:00. Not sure I'll hold out..

PommieBast

Lab gain. Good showing for some indepdendents.

PommieBast

Opps me.. Time to walk up..

VinLieger

Tories lost both seats. Lib Dems overturned a 24k majority to take the tiverton seat by 6k. How the Tories spin this as not being about boris will be fun to see.

The Tory candidate apparently locked herself in the press room and refused to speak to any press.

pixelburp

There were bizarre scenes when the Tory candidate, Helen Hurford, arrived for the count at a leisure centre in Crediton but hid in a dance studio that had been set aside for media interviews, refusing to speak to reporters. After the declaration, she left the hall immediately without making a speech.

Ha, what a shambles. Takes a special kind of incompetence and unpopularity to let a 24k majority get shrivelled up. And this apparently the biggest numerical majority overturned in a byelection in history. Just presumed Wakefield would be the only loss, but here we are. How many more chips on the facade can Johnson's rule endure? His cabinet feels positively moribund at this stage.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/24/lib-dems-win-tiverton-and-honiton-byelection-overturning-huge-tory-majority

Tom Mann Centuria

Shows that tactical voting works. I'm no fan of the Lib Dems (or Labour these days sadly) but it absolutely has to work like this in the short term, to try and get Proportional Representation back on the agenda. Labour need to realise Scotland isn't coming back and that PR is the clearest way to get out of these decades of Tory rule.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119241856#Comment_119241856

She was a singularly appalling candidate. I know it's only one seat but even still. The Wakefield candidate compared the Tory party to Harold Shipman.

Two good results. No difference in the grand scheme of things but nice to see.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119241995#Comment_119241995

At this stage though isn't it all just a few more clumps of snow joining the growing mass, rolling down the hill? It's just a succession of bad news at this stage & only so many False Flag Fights against the EU can hide the cracks. At some point the Tories must surely wonder if the guy going "Buhh, everything's under control, Non curarum" hasn't a clue & it's time for a course correction.

cml387

bearing in mind the problems piling up for the government over the next 12 to 18 months, any prospective challenger might prefer to leave Boris in place to take the blame, and dump him nearer the election.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242055#Comment_119242055

The current pretenders are so abysmal and lacking even a scintilla of any talent, it might be better to let them at it and wait till after the loss of the next election and then take over.

Mind you, after Blair succeeded Major, a lot of would be PMs passed through the Tory leadership role, all passing without trace or talent.

Funny how nostalgia makes Major look like a colossus of a PM when contrasted by the most recent gang. Spitting Image made him out to be a grey grey puppet with his grey underpants worn outside - very cruel. [He was always said to be the only person to have run away from the circus to be an accountant.]

Martyn Turner in his IT cartoons always portrays Johnson as a clown. I agree with that portrayal.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242055#Comment_119242055

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242153#Comment_119242153

Do agree with all of this, but one must also wonder how much longer the drain of support might be allowed to continue before it'll be too late to recover that momentum prior to a General Election. An 11th Hour purge could be meaningless if it's too late to persuade the electorate to give the New Boss a chance. As you say, nobody's good enough - but then neither was Boris Johnson. To mangle a quote from Michael O'Leary's recent Sky interview, he wasn't fit enough to run a Sweet Shop, his tenure as Mayor of London ... questionably successful - yet here we are, he's PM of the UK. Talent is obviously no limitation to power, so maybe the speculation might be more: who's conniving and/or hungry enough to oust Johnson?

cml387

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242153#Comment_119242153

I've always thought that William Hague was a lost prime minister. Certainly a very impressive parliamentary performer. The Conservatives were so out of fashion in the shadow of Blair that he never had a chance.

gmisk

Two more Tory seats gone...good

Usual eejits on defending Johnson like Fabricant. David Frost on saying the result was bad for Tories but even worse for labour....lol

https://twitter.com/OliverDowden/status/1540191893258207232

Well the election results are definitely causing a stir in the Tory Party.

ancapailldorcha

To be honest, I doubt most of the public know who Oliver Dowden is. He's only resigning because he doesn't want to be blamed for the inevitable defeat.

peter kern

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242239#Comment_119242239

i would not say its worse but its definitely not good if the libs can take a cons seat from 24000 majority to 6000 win and labour takes a traditional red wall seat by just a bit over 4000 its certainly not really time to celebrate for labour.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242555#Comment_119242555

That's the type of majority they'd had there for two decades.

peter kern

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242563#Comment_119242563

yes but with the worst prime minister in history that is a bad result and in a by election .

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242568#Comment_119242568

Can't compare raw numbers between GE and BE due to lower turnout.

It's only a "bad result" when you're a Tory desperately trying to pretend last night wasn't a disaster for them.

peter kern

its

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242610#Comment_119242610

its obviously a tory disaster if you have a 30 percent swing in a tory seat . but labour has not much reason to celebrate either as a 12 percent swing with such a prime minister in a red wall seat is rather poor .

if you look at it not as a fan or influencer view, but more from an analytic angle

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242610#Comment_119242610

You can recognise that the Tories are an absolute disaster while also recognising Labour's failure to capitalise under Starmer. It was similar at the local elections a few weeks back. The Tories completely capitulated, and while Labour won big under Mark Drakeford's solid leadership in Wales, in England they made almost no gains and it was the Greens and the Lib Dems who capitalised on Tory failings. The country is crying out for an alternative to Boris Johnson's Tories and any decent Labour leader who wasn't hell bent on alienating their core support base by pushing the party as far right as possible and abandoning the unions would be really making hay right now.

Tom Mann Centuria

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242706#Comment_119242706

Any other Labour leader would be 20 points ahead by now was what Mandelson, Campbell, Blair et al. spouted for years under the previous Labour leader.

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242684#Comment_119242684

I'm not so sure how 'Red Wall' it really is as a seat, geographically perhaps but it seems to have been relatively marginal over the years.

History of it here Wakefield (UK Parliament constituency) - Wikipedia

It was wafer thin for Labour in the two 1980s elections, and had been thin again for Labour in 2010/15/17.

The only better results Labour have had here were Blair#1 and Blair#2, yesterday was better than Blair#3 and 1992. Getting Labour back to 2005 (a majority) would be pretty incredible really.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119222037#Comment_119222037

Problem in presenting that is large enough segments of labour will see that as a betrayal.

They infighting will start, the media will focus on the large grouping in Labour who are cranks,bigots and lunatics, it's great copy and that damages Labour.

Labour don't like election campaigning, campaigning against a Govt policy, yes, aiming to win, no.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242729#Comment_119242729

Would they? On what basis and narrative?

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242853#Comment_119242853

You probably need to read beyond the 11th word of posts before replying.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242876#Comment_119242876

Yep.

breezy1985

If Labour's (apparently not good enough) gains are Starmers fault that why are we not all fawning over the leader of the Lib Dems and the incredible gains they are making. Let's be honest most people would have to Google the Lib Dem leaders name.

It's almost like this isn't about any party leader other than Johnson and disgruntled Tory's will stay at home or vote Lib But never Labour making the gains look smaller.

Sam Russell

The main problem with UK elections is the FPTP which distorts the whole system.

If I was a tactical voter in Tiverton and wanted to unseat a Tory majority, would I think LD have a better chance than Labour - probably. The word was out that LD could do it, so that is the way a tactical voter would go. Labour put no effort in anyway. Turnout was over 50% so there was momentum behind the unseating.

Wakefield was just returning home since Brexit is no longer oven ready. No momentum there as turnout was so low.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119243104#Comment_119243104

Of course but nobody will ever change it since it'll be the system they use to get into power. Not even half the electorate even voted in the AV referendum. I know AV isn't PR but the referendum drew so little interest that they couldn't even be bothered to come out and vote no if it was deemed inadequate.