General British politics discussion thread

Shelga

The UK is not going to rejoin the customs union as it would mean they cannot negotiate their own trade deals with third countries (even though those deals have been completely rubbish thus far; we are dealing with a country that likes to pretend black is white).

They won't rejoin the single market as it means free movement.

I really don't think the EU would let them rejoin either of these things anyway, as they are untrustworthy. So the discussion is moot.

In other news, the Chris Pincher saga seems to be the latest scandal involving Tory sleaze, and Johnson lying about not having known he was a serial groper. It's starting to be like hearing about mass shootings in the US- I just shrug at this point. He'll never ever resign. The only hope is that enough of the parliamentary party realise they'll lose the next election with him at the helm, and get rid of him. But replace him with who? They're all absolutely useless.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119292773#Comment_119292773

Mark Francois would be good for the lulz.

pixelburp

Yeah this is becoming Brexit Thread 2.0; not sure we should let that happen - although it is quite hard to separate British Politics from Brexit given the latter has poisoned the well so much.

I am seeing the Tories' controversial Higher Education Bill is passing through the House of Lords and likely to become law. Whilst I can see the idealistic benefits of something liberating "Free Speech" in universities, it's hard not to also see this as a broadside in the so-called Culture War, and enabling government interference in Student affairs.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jul/12/free-speech-bill-gives-legal-protection-to-hate-speech-says-labour

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119292844#Comment_119292844

All I see this accomplishing is miring Unviersities in lawsuits and expenses in Britain's already beleaguered court system.

TLDR News have a good summary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8H3uS0zIrI

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119292727#Comment_119292727

I know that. It was you that mentioned free movement and I was just expanding on that point

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119291853#Comment_119291853

Another factor re. Starmer is that it looks rather unlikely he can even win a majority at the next general election, meaning all his weakness and prevarication on Brexit is for what exactly? It's probably not even a winning strategy.

And if the Conservatives were to win an overall majority under a new leader (not impossible), it would mark Starmer out as one of the worst / weakest Labour leaders ever, especially in light of his refusal to criticise Brexit.

spacecoyote

The FPTP model is pretty stacked in favour of the Cons so it's tricky to look at a majority for labour either way.

Saw some article i think (could even have been on here) where they stated that the cons only need to win the election by 3% to get an outright majority whereas Labour need to win it by 8% I think.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119293004#Comment_119293004

He has to reckon with reality. It is what it is. People consider Brexit settled. Hopefully, this changes and we can have a mature debate about it with a route to undoing the whole thing but until that happens, people need to see what it is for themselves.

I think calling him one of the worst Labour leaders ever is a bit much considering his predecessor turned the party into a haven for antisemites, sabotaged the Labour remain campaign and aided and abetted the Tories as they got on with Brexit culminating in the worst Labour defeat in a general election since 1935.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119293596#Comment_119293596

I've seen quite a few Labour voters say though Starmer's weakness on Brexit could well cost him votes and not gain him any new ones. 'Not' criticising an obvious failure doesn't seem a winning strategy - most opposition leaders who do spectacularly well in a general election are ones who go on the attack and galvanise voters, not ones who are terrified of alienating anyone.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119293667#Comment_119293667

When said obvious failure was ratified by the most British people ever to vote for anything in the history of this country, the picture becomes a bit muddied in fairness.

Yes, it will cost him votes. Of that I have no doubt. So will backing Johnson's deal to the hilt, rejoin and everything in between. Labour were obliterated at the last election on a pro-second referendum platform. It makes little sense to maintain that spirit without a justification.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119293705#Comment_119293705

I'm a bit puzzled by Starmer's unwillingness to offend. The right wing press hate him and will never get behind him or say anything positive about him, no matter what he says on Brexit - good, bad or indifferent.

Also, it's perfectly possible to criticise the Tory Brexit without being seen to criticise the referendum result. His stance (or non stance) almost makes it sound like he approves of how Johnson has implemented Brexit. Trying to offend as few people as possible seems a terrible strategy, he's already living in a bitterly divided country politically.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119293823#Comment_119293823

The press have gone red before. It's not beyond the pale if public opinion turns on Brexit.

Brexit was always going to be a Tory project no matter what utopian nonsense the Lexiters put out.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119268997#Comment_119268997

Which issue was it in? The one still on the shelves. Though nowhere where I am seem to carry it any more.

I do have to admit a kind of macabre satisfaction in how the pincher story unfolded. I wasn't following it, would just hear a snippet or two a day on the radio. Allegations. Then another. Then it turns out there were previous ones. Then denial from Boris that he knew. Then it's revealed he said "Pincher by name, Pincher by nature" but denies he knew about "specific" allegations. Now it turns out he did know but just forgot.

It's a perfect encapsulation of this Tory government.

A Dub in Glasgo

Powerful stuff from this civil servent who called into James O'Brien's show which demolishes the current govt and their lackies. He says Simon Case will not know who he is but they will find out and he will be shown the door

https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/1544275411315691520

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119293596#Comment_119293596

I know you hate him but I can't believe you are falling for the tabloid antisemitic thing.

A Dub in Glasgo

Javid quits the cabinet

Tom Mann Centuria

Sunak gone.

A Dub in Glasgo

The rats are finally jumping

Strazdas

Any theories as to what Sunak is up to? A bid for Tory leadership or he is genuinely sick of Johnson?

kowloon

Saw that two senior ministers had gone but it only named Javid. Time to sit back and watch who else jumps ship.

10000maniacs

Wow its all kicking off now. The Chancellor resigns too.

Bye bye Boris.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119294744#Comment_119294744

Sunak is the other, he has already published his resignation letter.

Tom Mann Centuria

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119294166#Comment_119294166

Not sure which edition it was in, but widely shared online.

https://twitter.com/RichardAshmor/status/1542135918827552770?t=DlZ5eTy8Bwwp_Sw9DluSng&s=19

A Dub in Glasgo

I bet Zelensky's phone has been off the hook this last hour

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119294491#Comment_119294491

Are we allowed to say "Lie down with dogs..." when discussing the issue? Labour (not the party so much as where the movement is supposed to come from) has tended to have anti-Semitism built in to a small extent, though usually kept down fairly well. In the last couple of decades they've consistently wooed a section of the population who are somewhat known to not be massive fans of the Jews. I think the lackadaisical reaction was more to do with not stepping on those toes than actual anti-Semitism but it's not a good look.

gmisk

Javid and Sunak resigned....the beginning of the end of Johnson I think thank feck

The rats finally jumping.

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119294792#Comment_119294792

Very much so.

Who fancies the top job...Sunak defo..as bad as Johnson is not too many solid candidates

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119294777#Comment_119294777

He's already busy with Micheal Martin!

Igotadose

As far as 'senior ministers', Sunak had a very senior post, but wouldn't Truss (and the empty suit Raab) be 'more senior' than Javid? As well Patel?

Still, Fabricant or Francois would be great as Chancellor.