General British politics discussion thread

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119370641#Comment_119370641

Thats unfortunately incorrect. Local members overwhelmingly support it but the trade union members are not.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-proportional-representation-pr-b1927969.html

They do seem to be coming around though and hopefully next time this is up at their conference it should pass.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119371006#Comment_119371006

The fact that it's making it to this level is encouraging. It's not just some fringe idea any more.

Sam Russell

STV is the first hurdle.

Here we have multi-seat constituencies which means that parties with a lower percentage of the vote can still win seats. A single seat STV (favoured by FF when they were the largest party) would still benefit the larger parties.

Regional assemblies are also needed to counter the Westminster dominance on matters that should be under more local control. Currently, the Tory Gov makes a point of ignoring the SNP MPs in the HoC, even on Scottish issues.

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119371006#Comment_119371006

Once again it is the unions calling the shots at the expense of everyone else. I do wonder how many elections Labour needs to lose to realise Robin Cook's wise words.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119371006#Comment_119371006

Is there a sense as to why the Trade Unions are so deadset against the idea of PR?

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119371324#Comment_119371324

Ive searched several times and never been able to find an explanation for the opposition. The only reason I can think of is they believe they can win a majority and fix everything thats broken. But then much like Corbyns idiotic support of Brexit they never consider what might happen when the Tories inevitably take control again. Basically they seem to think its all or nothing so are happy to sit with FPtP.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119371450#Comment_119371450

Yeah it doesn't make sense at first blush; cos you'd also imagine that with PR, Unions would or could have more leverage within Parliament via more specific political parties; instead of being part of the increasingly large, vaguely left-leaning ensemble that constitutes Labour.

It has begun to resemble the US Democrats now in many respects; bedfellows you'd never expect to be on the same team (like Nancy Pelosi and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez), but are this way only 'cos the system won't let smaller voices be heard

Ahwell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119371006#Comment_119371006

Yeah, fair enough, I should of been clearer by what I meant by "Labour Party members".

Sam Russell

If Labour had endorsed Scottish Independence in IndyRef1, then it might well have carried. If it did carry, Labour could legitimately become the governing party in Scotland - possibly for ever. It may have increased their standing in rUK so they had some chance at power in Westminster.

However, they thought (I assume) that they would lose all 40 Labour MPs in Scotland and if IndyRef1 failed, they would retain them as the SNP would no longer have any support.

Of course, they lost the seats anyway, so they now cannot get enough MPs in England and Wales to get into power anytime soon, no matter what the Tories do, and the Tories have excelled themselves in doing things that should make them unelectable.

What a way to shoot yourself in both feet.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119373203#Comment_119373203

How in any way would breaking up the Union have boosted Labours standing in England ?

Sam Russell

How does the Tory Gov, after such a succession of mindless scandals, maintain any credibility whatsoever with the electorate?

Answers on a postcard please.

Loafing Oaf

So what happens if neither Tories nor Labour have an overall majority after next election? Starmer seems to have ruled out any sort of deal with SNP or Lib Dems

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/18/starmer-rules-out-even-informal-post-election-deal-with-lib-dems

Does he really mean this? If there had to be some form of coalition, surely both Libs and SNP would find Labour more natural bedfellows than Tories?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119373933#Comment_119373933

No the LibDems are not good bed fellows with Labour. People were fooled by Clegg into thinking they were some centre left student party or something.

The LibDem voters of Cumbria, Home Counties, West London etc. would die before backing Labour at a national level.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119373933#Comment_119373933

Depending on how the timelines settle, the cost of coalition with the SNP would be a referendum, and I can't see any Westminster party agreeing to that. Not unless the polls said it would be roundly defeated, and there's no sign of that.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119373969#Comment_119373969

Okay but doesn't that put the boot on the other foot then? If opinion polls are pointing to a hung parliament can'tb Starmer say "Do you really want another incoherent ineffectual Tory-Lib Dem government?" Unless Tories rule out coalition too...

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119373980#Comment_119373980

If it won't ever happen which I think it won't then he can't let swing voters in Lib/Lab areas think it might be an option.

But even more important is to shove the "fear of coalition" angle back at the Tories.

The UK has had only 2 coalitions in recent memory Tory/LibDems and Tory/DUP so why should it be Starmer who has to keep denying any deal.

Pete_Cavan

I don't see why Starmer feels the need to comment on coalition possibilities anyway. Just say something vague like "lets let the people have their say through the democratic process". His words were always going to get twisted anyway, being so blunt about it means he will alienate people if they do end up in coalition and the Tories will be screaming lier constantly from the opposition benches (not that lies have bothered them these last few years).

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119374458#Comment_119374458

Because he keeps getting asked. No one ever asks the party who have had the last 2 coalitions

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119374528#Comment_119374528

That he keeps getting asked should be an indication that the media were just waiting for him to give them the story they want, and that he shouldn't be saying any more. Bringing the last two coalitions upwould be a great way of deflecting.

I can't see how Labour can win a majority yet they seem to be building everything on them getting a majority doesn't seem a good idea. It only undermines any future coalition they may end up part of.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119374458#Comment_119374458

Seems this sort of stuff really hit home in 2015 or Labour believe it did

Giving evasive answers would be de facto leaving the door open and, Starmer clearly believes, would be nearly as damaging as openly admitting you are up for coalition. I'm just wondering has he genuinely categorically ruled it out, or has he left some clever legal loophole...

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119374639#Comment_119374639

Please God tell me there is a picture somewhere of May stuffed in Fosters pocket

gmisk

It looks like Sunak and Truss both want to push ahead with selling channel 4....depressing

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119374652#Comment_119374652

Don't know about that but Farage clearly liked the poster's style

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119374686#Comment_119374686

No more A Place In The Sun or endless royal documentaries. A loss to quality television.

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119376107#Comment_119376107

They produce a tonne of content...and they cost the tax payer nothing...they are profit making...and reinvest. Where will the profit go if they are sold off? Definitely not back into making more things...

There was a survey and 96 percent disagreed with channel 4 being privatised...(despite that dimwit Dorries saying the complete opposite) why are the Tories so set on it being privatised? What is their agenda?

You highlight one programme you don't like...look at the output of channel 4 and film4 over the years...some tremendous stuff. Tv wise.

It's a sin.

Derry Girls.

Big Boys.

Feel good.

Catastrophe.

Chewing gum.

Adult Material.

Those are just recent tv shows of the top of my head that were critical and in some cases massive global hits. Very few other channels push boundaries and produce that kind of content in the world.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119376447#Comment_119376447

And in there lies the answer.

Explicit shows about gays that highlight conservative England's terrible response to AIDS. Shows about the absurdity of the troubles.

And that's before getting into the back catalogue and Queer as Folk and the likes of Skins that had wannabe Mary Whitehouses having fits.

Not sure if Film4 is still part of the company but they have funded far too many Ken Loach movies and films about Che Guevara for the righty conservative snowflakes to handle.

Worst of all it gives opportunity and voice to young people and we can't be having them get notions and become enfranchised.

hotmail.com

I don't want to get into the Channel 4 thing but I'm making the point the most of the stuff on Channel 4 is pure rubbish. The Channel that gave us Wife Swap, Big Brother and now they have Naked Attraction, property porn programmes on day and night etc etc.

The few good dramas they made over the years doesn't disguise how bad Channel 4 is.

Channel 4 as a place of diversity is gone now. Other outlets are doing this now.

Sam Russell

Channel 4 News is the problem (even though it is made by ITN).

Channel 4 News is a no-go area for Tory Ministers and generally any Tory of any hue. It asks too many awkward questions and probes too deep.

It exposes too much (and I am not talking about Naked Attraction) that any Tory would allow.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119376627#Comment_119376627

Channel 4 News struggles to get half a million viewers. And that's on a good night. The Tories are not afraid of Channel 4 News because no one watches it.

And exposing too? Have they exposed anything? It was ITV News that had Partygate.

Their presenters are amateur at best and I've never seen a probing interview.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119373933#Comment_119373933

Everyone rules out pacts or agreements before an election. It generally has little enough bearing on what happens after the election.