General British politics discussion thread

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119514829#Comment_119514829

What was different about the 70s and 80s

Were half the country not just voting for the Tories for the same reasons then too ?

You didn't have a strong Welsh party and an utterly dominant anti union party in Scotland then either.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119514829#Comment_119514829

Well, the US seems to be breaking down on similar lines between the pro-Trumps and anti-Trumps (interesting that both countries have the same or similar two party system). I'm not sure I buy the idea there is no division in Britain - we've certainly heard many anecdotal reports of family members arguing over the Tories and Brexit.

Ahwell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119514829#Comment_119514829

I think you're ignoring how deeply unpopular this Tory government now is. Economically there is an absolute shitstorm heading the UK's way and their next Prime Minister is going to be Liz Truss. This is not going to go well.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119515205#Comment_119515205

The majority of people here consistently vote against the Tories. The undemocratic system here is rigged to give them unchecked power until they antagonize the Home Counties.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119515205#Comment_119515205

Unless you of the mind that a Labour Gov would be a good thing.

Now Tony Blair managed to make Labour the preferred choice of many, but even he did not manage the magic majority of the popular vote.

I have never understood why working people (waged as opposed to salaried) would vote Toy. It cannot be in their interest at any level.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119515653#Comment_119515653

I think the concentration on things like culture wars, immigration, refugees in dinghies etc by the right wing press is an attempt by them to get working class people to vote for the Tories. They cleverly spin it so that these things are a 'threat' to working class white people just as much as middle class ones.

ambro25

The political division in England ceased to conform with the stereotypical Left/Right themes years ago.

It has grown much more multi-dimensional, and significantly more dogmatic, with very deep ideological splits between globalists and autocrats, liberals and nationalists, the socially-minded and the ladder-pullers, the older and the younger…

Anecdotally, this goes a long way to explain the Red Wall switch to Blue 2 years ago, and Labour’s (seemingly-) atypical position on e.g. Brexit.

British society is much more riven by factionalisms, than it ever used to be 20 or even 10 years ago. But it is still quintessentially British, in that it’s still not (that much) the done thing, to speak or argue about politics in company. So the problem perdures.

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119515653#Comment_119515653

From recent conversations I have overheard it is the gap between unpopularity of the Conservatives and a lacklustre belief Labour are actually significantly better, especially on economics given the legacy of the 2008 crash.

Sam Russell

Anyone who is on the poorer side of life, like 80% of the electorate, will not benefit from Tory policies.

Those on 'benefits' certainly will not, but even some of these vote Tory. Of course most of these do not vote at all, hence why their plight is so easily ignored.

Tom Mann Centuria

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119516152#Comment_119516152

And with the Tories endeavouring to make it even more difficult for the poorest to vote, with photo ID requirements this will only get worse.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119516152#Comment_119516152

Benefitting isn't the point, though.

A lot of people vote on a cultural, not an economic basis. Tory austerity has made vast swathes of this country poorer but if their main concern is punishing immigrants, the left and others then they're getting what they voted for. They'll moan about it on the likes of Question Time, sure but come the election they'll vote blue again as surely as night follows day.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119515802#Comment_119515802

Yes indeed, it's not so much right vs left in England - it's more along the lines of conservative / reactionary vs liberal. Hence we get the somewhat bizarre spectacle of millions of working class people voting for a party run by Eton educated toffs and millionaires.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119515047#Comment_119515047

US people probably more stupid than the British. Americans so stupid they made the mask political. You had to wear a mask to show you didn't support Trump. Madness.

But back to the division thing.. you have no evidence to back up this belief.

Most people just getting on with their lives.

Ahwell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119516777#Comment_119516777

I think you got that arseways... the madness was not displayed by the people wearing masks, they were just following public health advice during a pandemic.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119516777#Comment_119516777

Most people just getting on with their lives

You have no proof to back up this belief

pixelburp

Classic Hotmail segue. Shoot down a talking point with None of it Matters, dismissive generalisation they will refuse to back up with anything resembling data. Nothing is achieved or revealed.

Most people get on with their lives? Such insight. The point obviously being that maybe now we're hitting a proper tipping point but hey.

People were getting on with their lives when Peterloo happened.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119516879#Comment_119516879

Not to mention playing the victim when asked for evidence but happy to dismiss anyone else's opinions on the same basis.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119516879#Comment_119516879

The original point about Britain being divisive hasn't been supported by any evidence.

It would seem like Britain is a generally civilised society.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119516837#Comment_119516837

It became more than that in America.

The mask became a Trump symbol. Madness.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119516777#Comment_119516777

What would your definition of a divided society be.....what would it look like?

Hermy

Last time I checked masks protected people from Covid but not from Trump.

Back on topic, Brexit is the very definition of divisive.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119516898#Comment_119516898

Nobody said Britain is uncivilised. Please provide a quote to substantiate this.

British politics is clearly polarised. If you don't think so, that's fine but it'd be nice if you could make some sort of contribution beyond attempts to derail the thread to sneak in a few Trumpsterisms here and there.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119516902#Comment_119516902

I'm not seeing how this relates to UK politics.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119516938#Comment_119516938

A quote to substantiate that Britain is civilised?

What you on about?

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119516937#Comment_119516937

Not from Trump. This is the sort of stuff America went on with. They made masks political.

All political issues are divisive, some more than others. But it doesn't translate into people's daily lives.

Despite the bizarre wishes of some Irish people who live in a country they despise, Britain is not heading for anarchy.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119516989#Comment_119516989

But it does translate into people's lives. The UK's response to Covid, rapidly rising inflation, the UK energy crisis etc are arguably all happening because one half of the English electorate, backed by the right wing press, decided to give Johnson an 80 seat majority in late 2019.

This is not something that just 'happened'. It's something that 14m Tory voters made happen.

Hermy

So what you’re saying is that on the one hand peoples lives are directly effected by politics yet at the same time politics doesn’t translate into peoples daily lives.

That makes perfect sense.

hotmail.com

This divisive society is what is being mentioned here.

And still no evidence to show what this means for Brits in their daily lives.

Presumably then it doesn't exist.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119516959#Comment_119516959

So you're replying to a comment nobody made. That's about par for the course.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119517149#Comment_119517149

I replied giving my opinion. You do understand back and forth discussion. Aren't you a mod?

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119516177#Comment_119516177

That is voter suppression - that was what Thatcher's Poll Tax was all about.

If you did not pay your poll tax, you could not vote. To avoid the Poll tax, just do not register to vote. Council tax was another way of hitting Labour councils by making subventions from central Gov go to the shires and not the urban areas - thus Labour areas got less funding and so performed worse. Sunak actually admitted that a few weeks ago that he actively pursued this policy - now.