General British politics discussion thread

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119884703#Comment_119884703

Where's the lie?

Besides, I do see a difference between the two stories you link to. The Irish story involves individuals "storming" an asylum centre; the UK story involves MPs - public officials - naming and shaming them and so putting them at risk of attacks (which we know have already occurred in the UK). The difference is the involvement of public officials. And of course, as serfboard alludes to, the UK authorities have form for explicit hostility to immigrants, in a way that I don't think has any parallel in Ireland - the "hostile environment" policy, Windrush, etc.. That does seem to me to be a salient difference

But, whether or not there is a difference between the UK and other countries, the situation in the UK is clearly worth discussing in a thread devoted to UK politics. I think those who object to discussions which don't also reference the situation in other countries risk being accused of whataboutery.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119884703#Comment_119884703

There is no lie. You're simply employing bad faith Brexiter tactics to shut down criticism of the UK and its increasingly cruel and racist policies towards some of the most vulnerable people in the world.

Tory MPs are now openly fanning the flames of racial hatred and risking the lives and safety of minimum wage hotel staff simply to placate some of the worst people in this country.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119884703#Comment_119884703

Show me the part of the post that says this only happens in the UK.

FraserburghFreddie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119884843#Comment_119884843

How was the information obtained in Ireland?Wasn't it through official sources?

I'm not objecting to discussion about the UK and agree with most of what is said about brexit across all these threads but I do think spotlighting problems with hostility to immigrants in the UK as if its unique(which isn't true as its happening throughout Europe)is detached from reality.

FraserburghFreddie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119884967#Comment_119884967

Well it doesn't because that's not part of the agenda is it.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119885477#Comment_119885477

This thread is about the UK. You're simply trying to derail it because you're trying to defend the government while it does the indefensible.

FraserburghFreddie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119884956#Comment_119884956

How is pointing out this is happening across Europe brexity?I'm not trying to shut down criticism of the UK I'm just pointing out this is happening everywhere.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119885492#Comment_119885492

Any time anyone here criticises the UK, you dump a link about another country like clockwork. It's a tactic that's not fooling anyone.

Igotadose

UK in recession, taxes going up, fiscal credibility in tatters due to Trussonomics. What's rich is, the Tory Chancellor of the Tory government attributing blame to the previous policies of the...Tory government. And the answer is more Tory tax hikes and austerity, which has been an ongoing theme since the Tories were the government since 2010. GDP to contract "by next year," which is what, 6 weeks away?

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-turn-page-trussonomics-with-budget-plan-2022-11-16/

Grim times ahead.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119885551#Comment_119885551

The same chancellor who was part of the original Cameron-Osborne government as well. In any other European country, this sort of gaslighting would be called out immediately.

Of course, Tory donors will be fine as it's only those on PAYE who will be affected. It's exactly the sort of move that will guarantee defeat in the coming election. They're supposed to be the party of smart spending and low taxes but instead we have fiscal stupidity on a scale such that the UK is now a laughing stock internationally while hiking taxes on working people to pay for said stupidity.

Leroy42

After 12 years in government, they are right back where they started. That is the definition of achieving nothing.

This will all be blamed on Truss, but it is the culmination of the last 12 years that have landed the UK in this position, driven entirely by the Tory party.

By any measure, they have failed. Since so many of the Tories were applauding Truss budget, a true Tory budget, I assume that they will simply vote this budget down given that it is against what they believe in.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119885477#Comment_119885477

I think the big difference is that the English media is the one fanning the flames. The UK is heading into a major recession potentially lasting years. Stories about refugees crossing the channel in dinghies should be on Page 10 of the Daily Mail (the UK is a big country of 65m and is going to have tens of thousands of asylum seekers attempting to enter by sea, land, air or whatever else). The media are trying to portray refugee arrivals as an extreme aberration or huge crisis, when it's just part and parcel of global life in 2022.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119885667#Comment_119885667

Indeed. We've even had an MP murdered because of the white nationalist hatred they've been stirring up. That they're still at it is a damning indictment of this country's establishment.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119885714#Comment_119885714

40,000 people crossing the Channel by boat and trying to enter a country of 65m is not 'that' unusual. It's pretty much on a par with asylum claim numbers everywhere and is neither a crisis or huge aberration.

FraserburghFreddie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119885496#Comment_119885496

Pointing out the same things are happening across Europe isn't trying to fool people.It might spoil the ridiculous propaganda spouted about the UK though.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119885551#Comment_119885551

I fully agree with everything in your post.

The continuation of austerity is scandalous after tory ministers wasting billions during covid giving contracts to their chums for useless ppe.I'd like to see a Labour government nationalise oil and gas within UK territory and supply energy to the country at reasonable prices cutting the fat cat energy companies out completely.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119885786#Comment_119885786

Well, the Brexiters and the Nationalists voted to take the UK out of the framework for returning them to safe countries so what were they expecting? They also closed all legal routes.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119885822#Comment_119885822

It isn't propaganda. If it was, you wouldn't need to resort to whataboutery all of the time.

serfboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119884573#Comment_119884573

Indeed hostility to immigrants is not exceptionally British. I linked the story not because of the hostility angle, but because of that hostility being deliberately inflamed by members of parliament effectively creating a hitlist by naming places in public.

And if you think that the MPs are not doing that, then you are at best naive, and at worst, disingenuous. But they will continue to do this, and be "shocked" and "appalled" when the attacks that they've encouraged happen. Straight out of the Ian Paisley/Donald Trump playbook.

And as also mentioned on here, the disgusting media (Mail/Express) encouraging all this stuff, is nauseating. To glance at one of their headlines, you would swear that immigrants and refugees only came to Britain, when all the statistics show that they have lower rates of people seeking asylum per capita than many countries in Europe.

I get that you have a patriotic instinct to defend your country from what you perceive to be Brit-bashing here. I can assure you that isn't my agenda - as a person who lived and worked in the UK, I'm amazed and saddened to witness what has happened to it.

growleaves

'Indeed hostility to immigrants is not exceptionally British.'

Understatement of the century.

ambro25

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119885786#Comment_119885786

40,000 people crossing the Channel is merely the byproduct of the UK closing down all legal routes into the country for claiming asylum, and the UK and France jointly and successfully closing down most other illegal routes (train/trucks/vans via ferries and Chunnel) in recent years. I wouldn’t be surprised to find direct correlation there, tbh.

Just like Hunt’s budget today, is merely the byproduct (the invoice, really) for the last 7 years’ worth of Conservatives’ infighting.

If the OBR’s dire forecast about British disposable income (fall of 4.3% in 2022-23, the largest fall since ONS records began in 1956-57, followed by 2.8% in 2023-24) is even half-right…torches-and-pitchforks time looms.

salonfire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119885822#Comment_119885822

Why is the continuation of austerity scandalous? If anything, the current woes of the UK shows they did not go far enough with the cost-cutting and tax rises earlier this decade. How would having an even larger debt now in a period of increasing interest rates be of any help?

As shown just weeks ago, giveaway budgets have the potential to topple the economy altogether.

The UK needs strong and swift austerity to see it get back on track. As for the hardships it may cause. Tough. Think of it as one of the benefits of Brexit, being able to chart your own future.

The NHS is an unsustainable joke and needs to be allowed to fail with something more sustainable put in its place. At least something that can implement a basic charge for GP visits to stop the free-for-all.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119887910#Comment_119887910

Yes, the right wing press are anxious to portray the arrival of asylum seekers as an "invasion" and a "massive crisis" when the figures for asylum claims are nothing particularly out of the ordinary. One wonders just what the racist billionaires who own the press are up to with this though and what their agenda is. Are they trying to protect the Tories or is it something else?

The figures coming on the UK economy today are shocking - even worse than anyone previously imagined.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119887950#Comment_119887950

The press appears to be reflecting public mood in Britain - most British are against illegal immigration.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119887978#Comment_119887978

I don't doubt for a moment that millions are energised by the issue but it's surely a total red herring in the middle of a UK recession which affects the entire population. You could reduce refugee numbers to zero tomorrow morning and it wouldn't have the slightest impact on the British recession.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119888020#Comment_119888020

Nothing about it the last few days. It's all about the budget.

It made the headlines a couple of weeks ago due to the vast numbers arriving putting pressure on the accom.

Ahwell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119888066#Comment_119888066

The pressure on accomodation is down to a backlog in asylum seekers waiting for a decision, which is not related to the numbers arriving. Plus, Suella Braverman ignoring legal advice on keeping asylum seekers at an overcrowded immigration centre out of spite.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119888066#Comment_119888066

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119888108#Comment_119888108

That, plus the British government's policy of requiring people to arrive in the UK without leave in order to apply for asylum. Naturally, if your policy is that that is what people must do to apply for asylum, people wishing to apply for asylum will do that.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119887949#Comment_119887949

Except this has been conclusively proven to be patent nonsense. Austerity devastated this country so that the top 1% could get even richer.

The Atlas Shrugged nonsense has been disproven time and time again. I've no idea why people keep pretending that it's anything more than silly fantasy.

salonfire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119888597#Comment_119888597

What's the alternative then? We literally saw a few weeks ago what happens when unsustainable spending and give away budgets are presented.

Reining in runaway spending is something to be commended as it takes a lot of political will to announce.

It's amazing people can critize Brexit voters for believing in unicorns and life ever after, but the same people believe in magical money trees to continue to fund more and more public spending.

Before you mention tax the well off, look up to see how useful the French wealth tax was.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119888863#Comment_119888863

Tax capital obviously. Windfall taxes on the energy companies making off like bandits, the rich, hedge funds, land value tax, mansion tax, etc. Plenty of options.

There is no runaway spending. It's that simple. This is a baseless myth that the libertarians have been pushing for years. They then cap it with the absurd premise that libertarianism can only fail when there isn't enough libertarianism.

Feel free to post some evidence but we both know that there isn't any.