General British politics discussion thread

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119976758#Comment_119976758

Do you deny that Brexit is a right wing phenomenon? Certainly, there were (and are) left wing Brexiteers, the so called Lexiteers, but they weren't in power before or after 2016 and had no say in staging the referendum, taking the UK out of the EU or anything else connected with it since.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119976758#Comment_119976758

I don't see what either of those incidents you're alluding to with your whataboutery there have to do with UK politics. Brexit is falling apart despite your desperate attempts to convince yourself otherwise. We need only wait.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119977077#Comment_119977077

I think Freddie objects to me using the phrase "right wing populist" in connection with Brexit but it's hard to deny the connection. Brexit was the creation of Farage / UKIP, the ERG, Vote Leave, the Daily Mail, the Daily Telegraph etc....they weren't just cheerleaders but were driving the whole thing forward.

Leroy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119976758#Comment_119976758

Brexit is done & dusted?

Somebody should tell the ERG, Johnson, Frost and the entire Tory party.

Not to mention the DUP.

But, sure, done & dusted.

FraserburghFreddie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119977077#Comment_119977077

Thank you for pointing out brexit is falling apart.Which raises the question, why should the UK fear the likes of Farage and Mark Francois who are figures of fun with the general public?Instead of focusing on third nations like the UK concerned posters should look within the EU which is a breeding ground for extreme right wing groups.I also note there were no comments about refugees being shot by EU guards..

FraserburghFreddie

..

FraserburghFreddie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119977910#Comment_119977910

Brexit is openly mentioned on mainstream news here in the UK as a failure and the likes of Farage(reduced to cameo appearances on obscure tv channels) and Mark "the stare" Francois are figures of fun by the general public. I'd be more worried about the genuine threat of right wing parties within the EU,not to mention the treatment of refugees by the EU.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119978466#Comment_119978466

They're not figures of fun. They're individuals who've spent their lives trying to screw over the public for their paymasters.

People can discuss more than one thing at a time you know. Your attempts to shut down any and all attempts of the Tory party aren't fooling anyone.

FraserburghFreddie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119978549#Comment_119978549

I'd liken the demonisation of the UK here to pre ban RT St Petersburg bot farm trolls,whilst convienienty overlooking their own problems.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119978586#Comment_119978586

No one is demonizing the UK. We are demonizing the actions and policy of politicians in the UK. So try harder with your victim complex act and try actually posting with some standards.

Tory does not equal UK.

FraserburghFreddie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119978589#Comment_119978589

Why are you concerned with events in a third country? Especially with what's going on in many eu countries(right wing coups,staggering corruption in the likes of Hungary and Bulgaria,refugees being shot etc..),I haven't seen the "we are the eu"mantra for a while.Are you embarrassed perhaps?

ancapailldorcha

To get back on topic, the UK has approved a brand new coal mine. The cynic in me thinks that they waited until the latest bout of racial hatred exploding at Meghan Markle to announce it on the sly.

https://twitter.com/James_BG/status/1600861833983709185

We've just had a scorching summer that saw the London Fire Brigade experience their busiest year since the war and this is what they're doing. So much for net zero I suppose.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119978615#Comment_119978615

Because this is the UK thread so we talk about the UK. If you want to talk about the EU go set up an EU thread.

I also care about said third country because I spent half my adult life living there.

Why are you trying to shut down all conversations about the Tories and Brexit. Are you embarrassed ?

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119978615#Comment_119978615

'Staggering corruption'

You do not see the staggering corruption exhibited by the Tories over the Covid gravy train.

One peer and her husband being identified as pocketing GB£29 million over a PPE contract and lobbying incessantly for contracts that benefitted both.

A 'track and trace' system to tack Covid infections that cost GB£3.9 BILLION that did not work and was scrapped.

A PM who remained in office for 42 days after bringing in a mini-budget that cut taxes that favoured her party friends. She lost the Premiership, not because the budget was not supported by her cabinet or party, but because it crashed the economy.

She replaced a PM who did not resign because he was convicted of an offence. No, he ran out of party support because he ran out of public support - the polls were against him. Now if you want corruption, study his approach to donor funding.

The current Tory Party is utterly corrupt.

The EU are attempting to bypass the corruption of Hungary and Poland, but given the EU have to follow the rules, it will take time. The EU are taking many measures to combat that corruption by reducing and freezing funding.

The EU are also trying to get the UK to abide by the TCA they signed into law nearly three years ago, bringing dozens of law suits against the UK.

The UK Gov have also declared that they will break international law by overriding many aspects of the TCA, and not implement other parts. Now that could be considered corrupt.

FraserburghFreddie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119978911#Comment_119978911

Fair enough about you caring about the UK and yes,I am embarrassed about what the tories and brexit are doing to my country.

That's not to say I'm not going to continue pointing out hypocrisy and the use of sensationalist headlines whilst the situation in the EU is as bad,or worse.Compared to many EU countries UK coal consumption is pretty low as illustrated in this attachment.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1261306/european-countries-with-highest-coal-consumption/

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119979068#Comment_119979068

What is this about coal? One coal mine is not going to do much - either for employment, coal production, or energy production.

The UK Gov wanted to start fracking - again. This will cause, if allowed to go ahead, much more damage than a single coal mine. It does severe damage to the substrata being fracked causing damage to building etc.

The question to ask - is why this is being allowed? - and the source of the answer is to ask - who are the Tory Party donors who benefit?

You are strong on EU corruption, but not so vigilant on UK Gov corruption. However, the EU corruption is actually member state corruption, and fairly isolated.

FraserburghFreddie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119979106#Comment_119979106

You should probably direct your remarks about the impact of one coal mine towards the poster who brought it up.I have no time for the tories although was under the impression that the ban on fracking has been continued due to public outrage.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119978586#Comment_119978586

All of the evidence would suggest that the majority of even English people are not Brexiteers and never were. They (the Leave crowd) got lucky on June 23rd, 2016 but then hijacked the narrow result of the sham referendum and declared that the entire United Kingdom was now anti-EU and wanted out of the union and Single Market. Predictably, with such shysters and chancers driving the thing forward, the whole project has fallen apart.

FraserburghFreddie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119979311#Comment_119979311

I agree with everything in this post although what does the comment'even English people 'mean?(Are we some kind of untermensch?Please don't answer that- I'm joking!)

peter kern

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119979106#Comment_119979106

while its true that we in the eu have some off least corrupted countries we also have far more corrupted countries than the uk.

https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/corruption-rank?continent=europe.

i understand you focus on the tory party but this is certainly not the most corrupt party in the eu if they where still a member. i would not mitigate our own eu corruption issues.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119979311#Comment_119979311

The phrase 'sham referendum' implies it was rigged. Is that what you believe?

Grumbling along the lines of "they got lucky" does not mean the referendum itelf was illegitimate.

As I've pointed out before (though maybe not on this thread, I can't remember) establishment publications like The Spectator were campaigning against EU membership *for decades*. High level political figures like Hugh Gaitskell, Enoch Powell, Margaret Thatcher (when she was PM) and others adopted Euroscepticism at times.

Your own solipsism (and that of others here) is the main reason you classify it as a fringe movement.

Since you know little about political tendencies other than your own you undestimate them and think that they "don't count". Then you have to come up with all sorts of junk reasons to explain-away their success.

It is the same with the failures of the Labour Party. Posters here only know that, in their minds, Labour are wonderful and no one could have any reason to vote against them, so if they lose any election its a mystery with no expanation. Gee, how come they don't win 100% of the time!

Really Tory-fatigue is the only route for Labour to return to power, as no one wants a thousand-year Tory Reich. So for double-negative reasons Labour will be back in government.

Christy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119979520#Comment_119979520

Sham does not mean rigged. Sham means badly run. Did they put in extra votes or discount ones they didn't like? No they didn't. Did they intentionally lie to the public over what Brexit would mean and the nature of their relationship with Europe, yes absolutely. If it was a legally binding referendum many would be facing charges over intentionally misleading the public over what the vote was about.

They promised that the UK would stay in the single market (Gove). They proposed having a second vote if the referendum was successful (Mogg). They put forward the idea of a Norway deal (Farage). Once the vote was over they immediately ditched it all but even the anti EU side was terrified to claim anything but having a super close relationship with the EU and some of the above would be largely aligned with the EU.

Tom Mann Centuria

There's a Brexit discussion thread, this is all an irrelevance now since both parties that can have any impact on things are happy to continue with Brexit. It was a fcuk up that I've no doubt many regret voting for,but it isn't going to change now.

So where political parties go from here, in this post EU reality, is considerably more interesting than endless talk of Brexit.

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119979520#Comment_119979520

Wonder how many people remember this? As much as I think the current Conservative rabble are easily as disgraceful as Anthony Eden in 1956 the Labour party to me are equally guilty having come out with such short-termist sh!te..

Come next GE most likely I will not vote.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119980162#Comment_119980162

Leave was not the official Labour position that was a fringe group within Labour. People like that awful cant Hoey who is thankfully now gone.

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119976758#Comment_119976758

Brexit isn't fully implemented yet.

https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloitte/uk/Documents/international-markets/deloitte-uk-eu-timeline%20.pdf

Capt'n Midnight

Sovereignty innit ?

some EU member states believe that the UK has moved closer to Norway on fisheries post-Brexit, by extension compromising its hardline anti-Russian stance over the invasion of Ukraine. Norway at least has the consideration of a Russian border.

40 pieces of silver are worth how much these days ? The deal secures quota of valuable North Sea whitefish stocks worth nearly £3 million and in arctic stocks worth nearly £2 million for 2023

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119980019#Comment_119980019

Hard to detach anything that is happening now from Brexit - Brexit gave us May, Johnson, Truss and Sunak and thus the current worst ever British cabinet. It's not as if Brexit is "a factor" in the current political shambles, I would say it is the outright cause of it.

Tom Mann Centuria

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119980465#Comment_119980465

It's one of the causes, all of the cause, an 8th of the cause, does it matter now?, Unless you've got a time machine we can all jump into its done. Why not use the brexit thread to discuss brexit. Anyway, not up to me, if mods are happy to have the discussion here then it's all good.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119980536#Comment_119980536

I think the point would be that it is near impossible to discuss the current near disastrous state of British politics without discussing Brexit. We're at the "chickens coming home to roost" phase. We're not re-running June 2016 all over again, we are literally discussing the hugely negative effects it is having on the UK economy right now.

For sure, things like the war in Ukraine, the cost of living crisis, energy prices etc are figuring but there is a big elephant in the room.