General British politics discussion thread

Leroy42

We already know he uses private health care, so refusing to answer makes him A) look like a liar and B) that he understands its hypocritical.

Laura even gave him the way out by explaining that Thatcher had private health care and was unapologetic about, but he had already drawn his line so had to stick to it.

Peregrinus

It was reported some months ago that he is registered with a private GP practice. I don't think the "this is not an appropriate question to ask" line will fly; previous Tory leaders have made public, and have sought to make political capital from, their healthcare choices, either public (Cameron, Johnson) or private (Thatcher). So I think the privacy ship has sailed.

Presumably the reason Sunak doesn't want to discuss his healthcare choices just at the moment is that, between NHS dysfunction and nurses/ambulance drivers strikes, he doesn't think he could make political capital out of them. He'd be accused of being indifferent to the problems created by his government's stewardship of the health service because he himself can buy his way out of them, and he doesn't care about those who can't. That might or might not be unfair, but it would certainly be damaging. There's no upside for him in discussing this, so he doesn't.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120080957#Comment_120080957

I don't see what more she could have done, seems to me she pressed him as hard as she could within the bounds of politeness

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/01/08/rishi-sunak-refuses-three-times-say-uses-private-healthcare/

i don't think the Paxo approach is a the right way to handle recalcitrant interviewees

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqU77I40mS0

ancapailldorcha

Standard Starve the Beast strategy. Sunak and others go private because they know they've wrecked the NHS. The public are no better, voting repeatedly for this while waving their flags during the pandemic.

https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/chart-of-the-week-how-has-the-waiting-list-changed-over-the-years

Leroy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120084967#Comment_120084967

She could have pointed out, as she started to, that there was nothing inherently wrong with the PM having private health care. Nobody believes that if the PM gets sick he has to wait on a trolley to see a doctor. So why not be up front about it? People know he is rich, so why would he think people would think he relies on the NHS?

And from there, point out that if he can't even be honest with the public about such an issue, why should we believe anything he say?

That is the point of hypocrisy. Not that a rich person uses his money to make his life easier, but that he is trying to hide it because he knows the NHS isn't working for ordinary people and as such is trying to hide that he is getting a better service.

What are the things he values, and therefore pays for, and what plans does he have to get the NHS up to the standard that people should expect. As Peregrinus pointed out, there is no benefit from hi discussing this so he simply avoids it, but it is the job of the interviewer to hold those in control to account.

pixelburp

Also, this isn't an isolated incident of Sunak trying squirm out of presenting his wealth. Nobody would expect or believe Sunak would go Public but once again he goes out of his way to either present as "ordinary" or just try and skirt the question altogether.

What is it, an estimated wealth of 700 million and he can't own the fact he goes private? And probably the best private at that? Who does he think he's fooling? Not sure why he can't just own his wealth, cos the charm offensive of soup kitchens and petrol pump photo opportunities can't possibly be working.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120085460#Comment_120085460

If he replies that he does have private cover then an interviewer can rightly ask enough questions pulling on the "is the NHS not up to standard?" thread. As already said, there is no upside for him in giving what we all know is the answer.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120085481#Comment_120085481

I accept the NHS is a sacred cow about which you don't trash talk, and there's a longstanding "don't ask don't tell" approach with private care..., but I fail to believe there wasn't some affectation of concern that looked better than yet another "Durrrrr, Input Does Not Compute" response from Sunak.

He's a phenomenally wealthy Tory, not like he couldn't have simply owned it. Some degree of "well, I've been fortunate enough that I can afford private care but my number 1 concern is making sure those without my good luck can avail of good services..." yada yada. I take your point, I do, but it does seem like a continuous stream of feet in mouth, tying himself in knots to avoid being seen as anything but an Empty Posh Boy. Which of course ends up the net result when he tries too hard.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120085541#Comment_120085541

"My Dad was a GP" was such a lame and cheesy and obviously pre-packaged response to that question. Almost anything would have been better than that. even "I don't talk about private family matters. Next question."

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120085541#Comment_120085541

I think it's honestly as simple as the absurdity of the NHS' status as the unquestionable sacred cow of modern Britain. Carving it up and killing it for profit is fine so long as one pays the requisite level of lip service. I imagine this has been roleplayed to death behind closed doors to deal with exactly this line of questioning.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120085895#Comment_120085895

I suspect so too, which just makes it all the worse that his response was so awful.

Sam Russell

But look what happened to P Flynn, as EU Commissioner, when he was asked a similar question. 'I am very well paid, and I run three houses - it is not easy. You should try it some time!' (or words to that effect). Tin ear comes to mind.

Also a Labour politician was asked if his very pregnant wife going private. His answer was 'My wife is not a politician and can do as she wants'.

Sunak should have said - 'I am privately wealthy and of course I go private for my health care needs as I can afford to, and I would not want to divert NHS facilities to look after me when I can afford not to need them. Also, if I, as PM, went through the normal NHS, that would attract, unasked, undue diversion and queue jumping of much needed resources which would be wrong for me to do that'.

Tom Mann Centuria

Good old BBC impartiality:

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/bbc-admits-to-editing-out-crucial-information-from-is-labour-antisemitic-panorama-341503/

Admits it 3 years later when the damage is long since done.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120086422#Comment_120086422

Maybe it's about time Panorama done a show about itself

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120086422#Comment_120086422

They should not have edited it like that, but the full extract doesn't present Labour in much better light.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120086642#Comment_120086642

I put this to friends of mine who were working in Westminster or British politics at the time.

Is there antisemitism in Labour ? Yes.

Is there more antisemitism in Labour than other parties ? No.

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087513#Comment_120087513

I'd say other parties have equivilent problems rather than antisemitism specifically. For instance Zak Goldsmith's mayor campaign was blatently Islamophobic.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087951#Comment_120087951

I think that's fair. But Labour can only deal with the problems within their own party, and they singularly failed (or didn't bother trying) to do that. Fortunately/unfortunately Tory voters care less about such things in general.

Ultimately if you portend to hold yourself to a higher standard, a response to issues of "well they do it too" isn't acceptable.

Tom Mann Centuria

https://www.tortoisemedia.com/westminster-accounts-explore/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=westminster-accounts-explore

This is a great website, put in your local MPs name and you get a fair bit of info of who's donated to them.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120088555#Comment_120088555

Only just realized my last MP Neil Coyle is now suspended from the Labour party.

My MP before that was Kate Hoey so I don't seem to have much luck.

ancapailldorcha

I put my local MP, Barry Gardiner, into it. Lots of payments in the region of a few grand from unions. Not really sure what to make of it, if anything, to be honest.

breezy1985

Being PM has paid well for May with £2.8m since 2019

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120089123#Comment_120089123

That's a real headscratcher. She was never what you would call charismatic. Leaving that aside, she's firmly out of favour with the current party establishment. One wonders what the appeal is.

Leroy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120089229#Comment_120089229

Access. Being a previous PM gives amazing access to top civil servants etc. And I would think that a lot of the payments are for past work done, when it wouldn't be seen to be correct to get paid directly when PM. So places on boards are promised, high payments for being a panel member at conferences etc.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120089573#Comment_120089573

That did occur to me but she hasn't been PM since 2019. I just didn't think it was likely but there's no other explanation.

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120089579#Comment_120089579

Pretty sure Blair is still coining it and he left in 2007..

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120089685#Comment_120089685

Ya and most hilarious of all as a Middle East peace envoy for a time.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120089685#Comment_120089685

Sure but Blair was PM for 11 years and left a mark. May was there for about 3 and is remembered for her dementia tax and various failed attempts to push her deal through Parliament.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087513#Comment_120087513

Ahh come off it.

Anti Semitism was rampant, accepted and driven on.

Labour were lucky that the media didn't run with it more.

David Duke and Nick Griffin endorsed Corbyn, because of his and his movements solid position on Jews.

Anti Semitism is no longer accepted by the Labour leadership and many of the worst have been expelled but it remains a very serious issue in the membership.

Labour had a severe and established problem and until Starmer it was not challenged.

It still counts when its Jews Breezy.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120089891#Comment_120089891

I'm not sure what that last sentence means. I'm saying antisemitism is even more rampant than what is covered.