General British politics discussion thread

Ahwell

The Privileges Committee hardly ever insists that a witnesses give evidence under oath, but they did in this case because he was known to be such a liar. He clearly lied to the committee. That's perjury. He could be prosecuted for this.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120717254#Comment_120717254

As a rule of thumb, serious constitutional change only comes in the first 2-3 years of a party entering power. After that, the momentum ebbs away. Judging by what we've seen of Starmer so far, nothing will change. The UK's deep underlying issues will remain until the Tories take power once again.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120717520#Comment_120717520

He could but he won't. There's no such thing as accountability in British politics. One need look no further than Tony Blair for evidence of this.

Ahwell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120717550#Comment_120717550

Yep, as shown by the number of fines he should have got for breaching Covid regulations as opposed to the number he got.

Leroy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120717603#Comment_120717603

True, but that 1 fine was enough to blow his whole argument out of the water. He had, until that point, argued that he had never done anything wrong. The police fining him, and his accepting that fine, put paid to his entire defence.

The number and amount of fines are largely irrelevant, but the damage to him as a politician was immeasurable and the outcome of that is reported on today. He will continue to moan and cry but everyone now, including him by way of accepting the fine, accepts that he broke the rules.

breezy1985

No.10 saying now that his honours list will stand as will his ex-PM allowances.

What no.10 are refusing to say is whether or not Sunak is available for the both on Monday. So most likely buying time to scrounge up an appointment out of London.

breezy1985

The Johnson gang are now out trying to discredit the report and try whip up talk of deselecting Tories who vote for the report.

peter kern

out of interest does trust get the ex pm allowance or is there a minimum time you have to be a PM to receive it.

serfboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120717351#Comment_120717351

While of course that's true of all of them, an Eton school report written about Johnson when he was 17 said:

Boris really has adopted a disgracefully cavalier attitude to his [work]

[He] sometimes seems affronted when criticised for what amounts to a gross failure of responsibility ... I think he honestly believes that it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception, one who should be free of the network of obligation which binds everyone else.

What was true about the boy of 17, remained true about the man all throughout his life.

Rory Stewart read it on stage at a public event by way of announcing his resignation from the Conservative Party.

Leroy42

Unfortunately, for Johnson, his gang is too small now. JRM is off to the Lords. Dorris is quiting. ERG is a rump.

While they can claim its all a stitch up, the reality is that the party wants him gone. The public increasingly see him as a liar. His once great advantage, Brexit, is increasingly viewed as a disaster.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120718130#Comment_120718130

They probably didn't write in a minimum limit because they could foresee someone that useless.

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120718139#Comment_120718139

Don't think JRM is going to the Lords? He just got a knighthood, not a peerage. Can still be in the HoC as a knight e.g., Sir Kier Starmer.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120718130#Comment_120718130

There's no minimum; Liz Truss is entitled to claim it, and she was PM for only six weeks.

But it's not a salary or pension; it's a "public duty cost allowance" for expenses incurred by ex-PMs who are still active in public life. To claim it, you do actually have to incur the expenses. "The costs are a reimbursement of incurred expenses for necessary office costs and secretarial costs arising from their special position in public life. The allowance is not paid to support private or parliamentary duties."

Having said that, most ex-PMs do claim the full amount, or close to it.

Patser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120717254#Comment_120717254

There is no guarantee of this - this could turn out for the Tories like the 2008 financial crash turned out for Fianna Fail - a watershed moment when they lose their pre-eminance status and just never recover it.

At the moment the Tories are openly tearing themselves apart - after years of factional infighting barely being held together, firstly by Cameron making stupid promises, then by a weak May trying to appease all sides and always being hobbled by both, then by Johnson dominating and expelling all dissent - Sunak is just such an uncharasmatic leader it's hard to see him reinventing a strong unified party. And Johnson's culling of dissenting voices, also stripped the Party of a lot of alternative leader types - so who can be seen as the next uniting voice to tie the Tories back together.

There is a chance in the future that Britain has a 3 or 4 party competing system. Tories could split as ERG types migrate to a Reform/UKIP type party especially if Farage and Johnson get on board with their populism. Equally more middle ground Tories could swell the Lib Dems, if a Labour Party majority fails to achieve much after next election.

Think how in Ireland we went from 70 years of FF vs FG plus all others, to FF, FG, SF all pretty much level and with all others also making up sizeable power blocks pretty much withing the span of 3 elections

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120720935#Comment_120720935

The UK can't have a three- or four-party system without changing their electoral system. Under the current electoral system, there pretty much has to be two dominant parties who alternate in government, and minor parties who hang around hoping for transient influence or the occasional coalition.

Without significant electoral reform, the only way the Tories can lose their status as one of the two dominant parties is if another party gains that status. This is very hard to achieve — it has only happened once in history, when Labour supplanted the Liberals as one of the two dominant parties in the decade or so after the Great War. In the 1980s the SDP hoped they could replace Labour as the dominant party to the left of the Tories. But we know how that worked out for them.

At present it's to identify another party that could replace the Tories as the dominant party to the left of Labour. Even if the Tories split, one side of the split would remain as the dominant party of the centre-right and the other would become a small party on the margins, or would merge with another.

(Again, there are precedents — the Liberals split with a spin-off Liberal Unionist party which hung around for a while before being absorbed into the Tory party; the SDP spin-off from Labour eventually merged with the Liberals.)

Nody

Boris Johnson has endured a final humiliation over the Partygate scandal in parliament as MPs backed the scathing report which found he deliberately lied to the Commons – stripping the former prime minister of his Westminster pass.

Some 354 MPs backed the Partygate report, while just seven Tories voted against it – a majority of 347. No vote was recorded for 225 Conservative MPs.

Oh how far the saviour of the time have fallen...

breezy1985

I don't get the significance of abstaining. It's essentially a vote for it in a case like this where you know one side will win. I get that some are genuinely missing but it's cowardly from the rest.

Speaking of cowards. Sunak missed the vote.

Leroy42

I'm the same. I just can't work out why Sunak would think that running away and hiding is the best option.

Even if one thinks he is worried that he could be next as he seems to have lied to HoC aswell, how does hiding make it any better?

Itssoeasy

https://twitter.com/newsxchange/status/1670757513954840576?s=61&t=9PWgf6fdzwvZ33721C-4DA

So it was the media’s fault for not understanding economics ? And here I was thinking her downfall happened because she bloody useless.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120737260#Comment_120737260

It's a way for them to avoid responsibility for either voting to hold Johnson accountable or voting to let me off the hook.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120737307#Comment_120737307

So, she's moved on from the deep state and lefty liberals then.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120737260#Comment_120737260

Apparently BJ asked his supporters to abstain, not sure to what end, perhaps so voting against can't be thrown back at them later. Mogg, Dorries, Patel and BSC didn't vote, maybe their delusions mean they think they are keeping their powder dry.

I guess in the case of Dorries, she just isn't arsed doing the job she is getting well paid to do, nor has she resigned despite announcing that she would "with immediate effect".

pixelburp

My presumption is abstention is a simple tactical decision; can't be accused of voting for or against the Cult if you technically never voted either way. It's cowardly but politically typical.

breezy1985

If I'm a Johnson supporter and my MP abstained I would hold it against them.

If I'm anti Johnson I equally hold it against them for not voting.

I'm sure some can dk a good job of claiming they couldn't make it but I don't think abstaining is the "get out of jail" some MPs think it is.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120737747#Comment_120737747

I think Abstention is more for the circus of Westminister, rather than the doorsteps of local constituents; I'd go so far as to suggest the average voter probably didn't even know there was a vote - let alone what it pertained to.

Leroy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120737708#Comment_120737708

BJ said that because he knew he wouldn't get close to the numbers. This way he can continue to claim that he had support without any evidence.

Like he did with the leadership contest. Pulled out even though he had enough support, but nobody has ever been able to backup the claim.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120737755#Comment_120737755

They probably do but most seats in the UK are safe ones so it's not going to matter either way. Nobody in the Home Counties is going yellow or red because of Johnson.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120737307#Comment_120737307

She appears to give "the media" a bit too much power in their ability to influence the market's reactions to her policies...

Water John

Supplementary report coming from the Committee related to the attacks on their impartiality.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jun/20/johnson-inquiry-report-on-attack-by-mps-could-prompt-fresh-tory-infighting

Whilst I would disagree on policy with Penny Mordaunt, I admire her for taking a stand.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120741423#Comment_120741423

I think she deserves credit for turning up and taking a stand.

However, I suspect she has realised there is an opening in the Tories for an "anti-Boris" candidate that Sunak is just pathetically failing to take.

Water John

Wonder how she would have done as a PM? The savage attack by Lord Frost undid here, the useless gobsh1te.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120741690#Comment_120741690

Much the same I would think. The Tories have transformed into a blue version of Labour - They can't stop fighting with each other.