General British politics discussion thread

retalivity

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121188451#Comment_121188451

Its like it's 2am at the end of the worst wedding in the world

https://twitter.com/NicholasPegg/status/1709101246882132069

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121188619#Comment_121188619

I've certainly come across a few life-long Conservatives who themselves think the party needs a spell in opposition.

political analyst

If HS2's construction had commenced in Manchester in the first place instead of in London then, even when construction is halted, a line from Manchester to Birmingham would've been better than what actually has been constructed? So why didn't the government start construction from Manchester downwards instead of from London upwards?

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121189739#Comment_121189739

Everything here is centered on London. You have to really look for some exceptions to this rule, like the DVLA in Swansea. The Conservative's base is southern England. There's no electoral reason for them to care about "the north". Even Johnson's 2019 win was an aberration. There's no way those people will vote blue again after the fiasco we've had.

Look at what they're reduced to:

https://twitter.com/MichaelLCrick/status/1709232656511111538

Tugendhat was supposed to be one of the more reasonable Tories as well.

Strazdas

It strikes me the party could easily split in the next couple of years. The Braverman / Farage / UKIP / GB News wing has gone so far to the right that it may be impossible for the party to remain as one entity. Also, this lunatic fringe appears to hate Sunak and wants rid of him.

Timberrrrrrrr

"Heckler" kicked out during Bravermans speech.

He says (not loudly) "there is no such thing as gender ideology"

His name is Andrew Boff, he's the Conservative chair of the London assembly and gay.

https://twitter.com/PGMcNamara/status/1709218901312073895?t=0tj6xERurw9iljYm8qJNSA&s=19

Panthro

Had to turn the volume up to hear him.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121189855#Comment_121189855

Is there a longer video than that as I'm surprised that the cameras, security and police were all there beside him when he started. Nonetheless, it does look like they were completely over the top in escorting him out.

Tom Mann Centuria

Polling company Savanta gives Labour a 14 point lead in their latest poll, down from 16 points, but I Iiked the response they got when they asked 2,000 people to describe the Tories in one word.

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121189935#Comment_121189935

Not sure if any video of before, here he is being strong armed outside.

https://twitter.com/JoshGafson1/status/1709224529367593029?t=4yQWWEZSlQKI8mrO_r2ZPA&s=19

Sam Russell

Was he arrested for a heckle?

Is it now illegal and subject to arrest for a Tory elected to the London Assembly to make an unwelcome remark just about audible? Appears so!

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190121#Comment_121190121

It's a terrible look for the conference. A heckler is normally understood to be a complete outsider who has infiltrated the meeting with a view to shouting abuse at a speaker. This man was literally an invited delegate to the conference who was simply disagreeing with something she was saying and the language she was using,

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190956#Comment_121190956

It's rather tame if you've ever seen Labour Party Conferences in the past. Labour members seem to protest about everything when they're in government.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190956#Comment_121190956

So he was arrested (the policeman had a strong grip on his arm to prevent him from doing anything but go where the cop is taking him - that is arrest) for expressing his opinion sotte voce. He was sitting and did not gesticulate in anyway that could be considered threatening to anyone - not even at the cop that grabbed instantly - like a secret policeman there to prevent dissention.

Looks like a police state to me. Of course, we know UK Foreign Secretaries favour a 'hostile environment' and now it applies to Tory conferences - even to Tories who express dissenting views.

Yes, looks bad. But the current crop of Tories do not just look bad - they are bad, to the core.

Cal4567

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121188406#Comment_121188406

I was around in the post Thatcher Major years. A lot of similarities, Tory sleaze after so many years in government. Out of ideas, aged, compared to bright young Mr Blair who was waiting in the wings. Was very easy for Labour to present themselves as the fresh alternative.

Going forward there is a small possibility that Labour could turn itself into the natural party of government, picking up this mess, though forecasting in politics is precarious. In December 2019 most commentators reckoned Boris was a shoe in for the next election and Labour wouldn't have a chance in government until at least 2028 or beyond.

Cal4567

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185812#Comment_121185812

Not astonishing at all. I would have come into contact with many second generation offspring in the UK, and third generation, many more to the right than the left. Might be a surprise for Irish eyes and ears, but England particularly has a significant non white middle to upper middle class.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121191826#Comment_121191826

"England particularly has a significant non white middle to upper middle class."

Can't say that was my experience of of the place. I always found it very noticeable how white it got as soon as you stepped into any of the rich enclaves in South London for instance.

Does it exist yes but it doesn't seem to be any sort of significant numbers. What I did meet was a lot of non white middle and upper middle class people who were 1st generation immigrants and students.

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121191822#Comment_121191822

Major himself thought winning 1992 was lucky. If he was not doomed before Black Wednesday he certainly was afterwards.

If history is anything to go by Labour will be out of office by 2030 and won't get back in again until 2045. Blair bucked the trend because he was not picking up the sort of mess Starmer will have.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192851#Comment_121192851

Hard to really attach any form of trend to what will happen next.

If the Tories were not falling apart I could see a 60/70s style era of chaos and short governments but they just look so unelectable right now.

Blair and Thatcher were strong leaders at a time when the opposition was a disaster so it doesn't look like that either.

Probably see something new like Starmer just needing to be less useless than the cretins across the aisle to get a 2nd term.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192851#Comment_121192851

Will 'the Conservative Party' even exist by 2030 though? The lurch towards the hard right / alt right may make its survival as a single party improbable. Large numbers of Tory MPs never signed up to be members of UKIP / BNP.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192948#Comment_121192948

Of course it will. The electoral system makes that a certainty. It may shrink a bit if the Liberal Democrats can establish themselves as a sane, centrist option but it'll be there nonetheless. Tory MPs are very good at holding their nose and ploughing on.

hotmail.com

Let's see how Sunak's smoking ban goes down with voters in the North of England. I recall one former Labour minister saying that smoking was the only thing the working class had left.

No train line to the North of England and no more fags for you either.

Sam Russell

Sunak said he wanted to sort out Britain like Thatcher did. So he cancelled the HS2 to the North. Thatcher laid waste the North - particularly by destroying the mining industry, and manufacturing.

So what is Sunak's next move against the North?

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193222#Comment_121193222

But it looks like Braverman and Badenoch have ambitions to lead the party, Farage wants to join and it seems Truss is planning a political comeback. It might be difficult to hold the party together if the headbangers completely take over.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193669#Comment_121193669

What will happen then is a long stay on the sidelines until they cop on and find another Cameron/Blair type.

A few might leave for a new party and and many have already retired but splits are pretty pointless in the UK.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193690#Comment_121193690

The disenchanted Tories could decamp to the LibDems - and if in sufficient numbers, could relegate the Tories to the third or fourth sized party -not even leading the opposition. It could be the start of their ultimate demise.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193753#Comment_121193753

I highly doubt they slip to 3rd. Brexit and a bad economy are nowhere near big enough to create that sort of unprecedented change.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193669#Comment_121193669

This just means it'll lurch further to the right, that's all. It's already shed the likes of Ken Clarke, Dominic Grieve and Nicholas Soames.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193690#Comment_121193690

If Braverman is elected leader, you'd have to say that it would be unlikely the party could survive as a single unit. It would be moving completely away from the mainstream and into a BNP type outfit.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193983#Comment_121193983

I think a mass exodus is quite likely in this scenario. Remember that the red wall MPs are unlikely to remain beyond the odd exception. Anyone talented or principled has jumped ship at this point. Look at their "big beasts". Anderson, Braverman, Badenoch, Truss, Sunak, Rees-Mogg, etc. None of them are going anywhere. This is what the party is now. If what's left of the moderate wing wants control back, they're better off waiting until they can use the looming spanking as a weapon.