General British politics discussion thread

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121430189#Comment_121430189

Blair didn't even look like business as usual from the outside. It's utterly lazy nonsense and I think mostly just hindsight on his involvement in Iraq (as unforgiveable as that was).

Whitewashing Blair's time in government as Thatcherite politics was one of the more idiotic things Corbyn and his supporters did.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121431955#Comment_121431955

Blair being Tory light predates Corbyn as leader by a long long distance.

From 2010:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2010/sep/01/tony-blair-endorses-tories-claim

I do think that "from the outside" as in people who didn't actually live in the UK Blair jus took like another economic liberal who liked to suck up to America and bomb the odd country. People on the outside don't see all the fire stations and community centres closing and councils having to sell off housing stock.

HalloweenJack

What I find to be the most obnoxious thing about the Elgin Marbles story is the people hiding behind the law as if its some insurmountable obstacle to even discussing the matter. They're a majority government; they could easily change the law.

https://www.itv.com/news/2023-11-27/rishi-sunak-ditches-meeting-with-greek-pm-amid-elgin-marbles-row

I've seen it mentioned in recent days and I agree: If you can't stand up and argue your position then deep down you know you have no argument for it. This is all just playing to the choir of Brexit-voting Empire-nostalgic types. It also re-affirms that this government has no interest in dialogue or compromise. It's all about getting what they want.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432134#Comment_121432134

Being Tory lite perhaps - I still don't agree and I certainly don't think Tory politicians are a good barometer of that.

It was Corbyn who ratcheted that up to "40 years of Thatcherism" which was plainly completely ridiculous.

Ok, if by from the outside you mean outside the UK I can kind of understand but that's like considering all broadly pro-capitalist economists the exact same. I really do think it's just a reaction to Iraq that people have focused on that and ignored the huge investments in the NHS etc.

Leroy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432198#Comment_121432198

The same people claiming that 'it's the law' and therefore nothing can be done are the same people saying that Rwanda can simply be named safe by the government to get around laws. It's all laughable.

And yet another own goal by Sunak, who is quickly showing that he is going to be competing for the title of worst PM ever. Which given Johnson and Truss preceded him is some achievement in itself. He was parachuted in because he was seen as at least not as terrible as Truss seems like it was based on nothing more than despair of Truss and hope.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432134#Comment_121432134

The Conservatives today claimed an unlikely ally in Tony Blair after the former prime minister warned in his memoirs that campaigning against "Tory cuts" would consign Labour to the political wilderness.

He wasn't wrong. As devastating as the cuts were, it made Labour look stuck in the past. The councils selling of social housing stock began under Thatcher and nobody here supports housebuilding. There's a real sense of "I've got mine" in politics here that I just never noticed when living in Ireland.

Tom Mann Centuria

Michael Crick quite strongly suggesting that Labour's selection process for candidates is bent. Well the online portion at the very least.

https://unherd.com/2023/11/did-labour-rig-its-selection-votes/

Tell me how

With the news of the passing of Henry Kissinger and Shane McGowan today, this death will receive less attention in the general public space I expect.

Former Chancellor Alistair Darling dies aged 70

Link

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121437523#Comment_121437523

Presumably most people in Britain wouldn't know who Henry Kissinger is.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121437523#Comment_121437523

In the same way I'm shocked McGowan was only 64 I'm really shocked Darling was as old as 70 (which is a young age to go these days)

Timberrrrrrrr

Ohhhh that's a fair snub to Sunak by Charles 🤣🤣🤣

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1730584695648182736?t=wn6hZEAlbrg427iB_rW7-A&s=19

L1011

He is half Greek of course.

Water John

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121442842#Comment_121442842

Continuing the tradition of his mother, with the clothes and jewellery signalling.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121442902#Comment_121442902

I think he has a lot of Danish in him.

Hermy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121444058#Comment_121444058

Despite his grandfathers Greek and Danish titles his ancestry is mostly Germanic.

ancapailldorcha

For a man who somehow managed to convince many people that he's some sort of centrist, Sunak's coming across as very, very petty now.

Rishi Sunak has denied having a “hissy fit” over the Parthenon marbles row and has said they cannot be returned to Greece “as a matter of law”.

The prime minister this week accused his Greek counterpart of using a trip to London to “grandstand” over the issue of the ancient Greek sculptures.

Sunak cancelled a planned meeting with Kyriakos Mitsotakis in London on Tuesday because he said the Greek prime minister had reneged on a promise not to use the trip as an opportunity to advocate for the sculptures’ return.

The former Conservative chancellor George Osborne, now the chair of the British Museum, said on his Political Currency podcast he had been trying to find out what lay behind Sunak’s decision to cancel the meeting, examining theories including that it was a “dead cat” strategy to deflect from the government’s woes around immigration policy and an attempt to impress “red wall” voters.

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2023/dec/01/sunak-parthenon-marbles-matter-of-law-denies-hissy-fit

The red wall is gone and even if it was not, this isn't something that's going to keep those voters on side. I'm baffled that the strategists in the party haven't seen the writing on the wall and just called an election. They need some serious spring cleaning and that can only happen in opposition. The longer these Tory tantrums go on for, the worse they get.

Tony EH

Jesus, that's pathetic.

Leroy42

Why are you baffled? What benefit to any current Tory MP, never mind ministers and the PM himself, is there to calling an early election?

Are we really expecting people yo willingly vote to lose their own jobs for the sake of the future of the party or the country?

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121445420#Comment_121445420

I specifically referred to the party strategists. They're going to lose unless something cataclysmic happens to justify postponing an election. If they call one now, they have the advantages that a sitting government possesses and they can choose a date that suits them. Leaving it until next December isn't going to help.

There are ways to get recalcitrant MPs in line. Even a minority with Labour votes will do. They're not going to get more popular and several are in safe, blue seats. They're not borrowed time. Nothing is getting done and once things like the small boats tick up come new year, they'll continue to flounder helplessly.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121445420#Comment_121445420

They don't get a vote on it. Calling a general election in the UK is a royal prerogative. The monarch acts on the PM's advice. There is no vote in parliament on the subject.

(From 2011 to 2022 there was legislation drastically limiting the PM's right to call an early election, but it was repealed last year.)

kirk.

Interviewer just asked Starmer what he does for the environment

He looked stumped initially before saying he doesn't eat meat 🍖🥓

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121445430#Comment_121445430

You would really want to wake up and smell the coffee. The Conservative party and Rishi know this election is lost bar Corbyn ousts Starmer and grabs defeat from the jaws of victory.

They wilnot do any better or worse in the polls. The battle at present is post election and what happens to the Conservative party. Rishi cannot concede on core principles.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447884#Comment_121447884

What are these "core principles" for Rishi Sunak?

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447884#Comment_121447884

Corbyn isn't even trying to oust Starmer.

Labour are at risk in my view of actually doing worse than they should. A council election in Starmers constituency saw the a massive swing to the Greens. I imagine there is a lot of displeasure with Starmer over his steering of the party on the Israel Gaza conflict and several Labour councilors have left the party as a result of it. He also has removed the pledges he made in the 2020 leadership campaign from his website in the last few days.

This could lead to vote splitting in the General election that benefits the Conservatives more than anyone else really. Corbyn made the same mistake in 2019, he didn't provide adequate leadership to divert from the disaster that Brexit already was and paid the price. (Although he was sabotaged from within his own party as well of course).

Nody

Did Starmer forget which party he's leading or he simply feels he needs only be slightly left of the Tories now thinking no one would consider another party anyway (which I think he's going to be shocked to find out that Tories vote Tories or don't vote but Labs will vote for Greens etc. instead)?

Keir Starmer piles praise on Margaret Thatcher in a bid to woo Tory voters

Sir Keir Starmer has piled praise on Margaret Thatcher in a bid to win over disillusioned Tory voters.

The Labour leader paid tribute to the former prime minister, who he said effected “meaningful change” and “set loose Britain’s natural entrepreneurialism”.

And he accused the Conservatives of “betraying” the country on migration, promising that Labour is “ready to deliver”.

Writing in The Sunday Telegraph, Sir Keir said: “Every moment of meaningful change in modern British politics begins with the realisation that politics must act in service of the British people, rather than dictating to them.

“Margaret Thatcher sought to drag Britain out of its stupor by setting loose our natural entrepreneurialism.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121448697#Comment_121448697

Labour under him has clearly morphed into being a right wing party. They would be much further to the right than, say, Fianna Fáil on a whole range of policy issues. Some would say 'fair enough' and it's the only way they can win a UK election, but that is a right wing party by any definition.

Tom Mann Centuria

"Failed to realise the possibilities of Brexit" is another good one from Starmer's interview.

He's taking left of the party voters for granted, local elections have shown Labour are vulnerable in more traditionally left wing areas or areas with diverse ethnic mix.

I think he's calculated (probably correctly) that he can afford to lose a few. My hope is he's miscalculated and ends up with a miserable majority or even better he's left relying on Lib Dems, Greens and independents.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121448697#Comment_121448697

That's ... ... a frankly astonishing choice.

Margaret Thatcher? Possibly the most divisive and universally hated PM (depending on where you are living in the UK) and Starmer decides to praise her?

This is just mana for anyone even vaguely left of centre already wary of a Labour lurching to the right. I don't even think this lurch is needed to win the GM cos clearly there hasn't been a government this completely despised.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121448908#Comment_121448908

Note his comments on immigration too : he's pretty much giving the Tory, Daily Mail, Daily Telegraph line of it being a major "problem" or "downside" that needs to be addressed.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447884#Comment_121447884

Why can't they do any worse? What's stopping them? I'm curious about the alleged core values as well. What are they, if any?