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General British politics discussion thread

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    #12602
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,345 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197297#Comment_122197297

    she's gone from 'being responsible for it' to being 'at the head of it'…

    she became health minister in sept 2004; she didn't manage to set it up within three months of becoming health minister.



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    #12603
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,152 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197308#Comment_122197308

    I think it's clear to everyone at this stage that the conversion from the Health Boards to the HSE has been a disaster, and I say that as someone who isn't a proponent of the idea that our HSE is an automatic death sentence (far from it). But the administrative cauldron that is the HSE behemoth is directly responsible for the incredible amount of waste that goes on within our system.

    As you say though, it's another thread so that's the last about it from me.



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    #12604
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,152 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197332#Comment_122197332

    She was health minister for 7 years. She was very much responsible for moulding it in her tenure. Obviously, she's not SOLELY responsible.



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    #12605
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197057#Comment_122197057

    now that is funny considering he endorsed Israel carrying out war crimes



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    #12606
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,404 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197366#Comment_122197366

    You accused me of doing the same. Spare me the fake concern.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #12607
    Randycove
    Registered Users Posts: 151 ✭✭Randycove


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197122#Comment_122197122

    I’ve a daughter at Reading Uni and she hasn’t had it that bad, she has had same day phone appointments, but that is after calling the NHS line and convincing them that she is actually sick.

    I remember when I lived that and having a really sore throat. Being of the “it’s only a scratch” mentality I soldiered on, in no small part thanks to having a 6am tee off time at a course I really wanted to play. During the round, my friends convinced me to see a doctor, so I called and managed to get a 1:30 appointment.

    Along I went and the doctor was delighted to tell me I had tonsillitis and that despite having a very busy morning, I was the first actually sick person he had seen that day.!



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    #12608
    Shoog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,884 ✭✭✭Shoog


    The Tory media will go soft on Starmer because they know the game is up.



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    #12609
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,404 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197393#Comment_122197393

    What game?

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #12610
    Shoog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,884 ✭✭✭Shoog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197416#Comment_122197416

    No amount of fear mongering will produce a Tory victory, so their Tory-lite candidate will hold the stage for a term or two until the Tories whip themselves back into a Electable shape again. The media will play their part of a relatively smooth transition to the Labour holding pattern.

    It worked with Blair and it will work with Starmer.



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    #12611
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,404 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197483#Comment_122197483

    The Tory-lite thing is just a baseless Corbynista trope.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #12612
    wazzzledazzle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,024 ✭✭✭wazzzledazzle


    Yes, i don't really understand this tory-lite commentary.

    They are poles apart from the tories from what i can see, and i wouldn't even consider them to be comparable to a moderate Tory party.



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    #12613
    Shoog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,884 ✭✭✭Shoog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197495#Comment_122197495

    In your imagination it is. Blair was Tory lite and Starmer is Tory lite.



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    #12614
    blackwhite
    Registered Users Posts: 8,722 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197510#Comment_122197510

    There's a cohort who believe that anything other than hard-left is a Tory and that any Labour leader that courts the centre is betraying the party.

    They give the impression that they would prefer a Tory government in perpetuity than see a centre-left Labour government. It's hard-left or nothing



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    #12615
    Shoog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,884 ✭✭✭Shoog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197539#Comment_122197539

    Tory lite means continuing with a neo-liberal privatisation agenda. Privatisation and outsourcing never missed a beat under Blair - he perfected the art in his public-private outsourcing program. A program that has shouldered the British with huge liabilities.



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    #12616
    Randycove
    Registered Users Posts: 151 ✭✭Randycove


    it is down to FPTP creating parties that are effectively coalitions within themselves. When the moderate centre left take over, the hard left just accuse them of being Tory lite, despite the fact that the British public have generally rejected hard left politics, if they hadn’t, the SWP would be more than a few nutters that like to call each other comrade while beating up a few fascists.



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    #12617
    Peter Flynt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,871 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    Junior Doctors in the NHS have just announced a five day strike with it ending two days before the election.



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    #12618
    Randycove
    Registered Users Posts: 151 ✭✭Randycove


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197550#Comment_122197550

    and I guess Corbin’s idea of nationalizing all the drug companies so the NHS could make all their own medicines was genius?



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    #12619
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,404 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197526#Comment_122197526

    Repetition and snide comments do not make a cogent argument.

    The cope from the Labour left is just tedious. They had two elections, lost the first and somehow did even worse in the second.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #12620
    Shoog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,884 ✭✭✭Shoog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197569#Comment_122197569

    Denial isn't convincing either.



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    #12621
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,152 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197510#Comment_122197510

    The "Tory-Lite" moniker comes from Blair's time. Blair moved Labour closer to a right wing neo-liberal model where he was happy to have public services partly or fully under private hands, or made no efforts to renationalise things like rail for instance, which has been a shambles ever since the Tories privatised it in the 80's. Even the Tories were discussing renationalising rail a few years ago IIRC. Other public services in private hands have also proven to be wretched, like water. "Blairism" wasn't concerned with such things, while the wider Labour voting public very much were.

    "Tory-Lite" has carried over to Starmer, because he seems to be modelling himself on Blair and his New Labour and Starmer appears to be very much on the fence regarding what would be considered traditional Labour policy, to put it in its best terms.

    No, Labour aren't the Tory party. But they're not Labour either.



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    #12622
    Shoog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,884 ✭✭✭Shoog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197560#Comment_122197560

    It's been very obvious that privatising the rail and water networks haze been a roaring success.



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    #12623
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,404 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197602#Comment_122197602

    I see you ignored most of the post. You're the one pushing the idea that Starmer is Tory lite. Maybe I can help. Did he support austerity? Holding the 2016 referendum? Did he support May's deal? What policies, if any, does he share with Sunak's Tory party?

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #12624
    Shoog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,884 ✭✭✭Shoog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197613#Comment_122197613

    Not actually what that implies, the Core policies are no different - the more obscene elements of right wing agenda are what can be put on hold.

    The reason why the Tories have run out of road is primarily because there is nothing but the NHS to sell the off to create the illusion of prosperity. The reason why even the Tories saw the folly of attempting Thatcher 2.0 under the poison puppet.



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    #12625
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,584 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197606#Comment_122197606

    Blair didn't privatise rail and Starmer isn't calling for any privatisation so I don't get the point of this.



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    #12626
    Shoog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,884 ✭✭✭Shoog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197639#Comment_122197639

    Outsourcing is privatisation.



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    #12627
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,404 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197632#Comment_122197632

    You couldn't answer a single question. Instead, you've just repeated the silly claim once again with alternative phrasing. You couldn't even identify a single policy. I see no point in continuing this.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #12628
    Randycove
    Registered Users Posts: 151 ✭✭Randycove


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197606#Comment_122197606

    whereas state owned is a roaring success.

    Privatization of water I agree with, but for rail you need to separate the infrastructure and the train operating companies. Infrastructure is owned by railtrack, which like TFI is a state owned company. The licences to operate transport on that infrastructure has to be open to competition and although a government can own a rail company, it still has to compete with private companies at an open tender. The same applies to bus, tram etc. that’s why we have a French company operating the Luas and a British company operating half the buses in Dublin.

    It’s also the reason why the RMT union was telling its members to vote leave. You can’t have a fully nationalised rail network and be a member of the European Union.



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    #12629
    PommieBast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,710 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197153#Comment_122197153

    More accurately, pretend to move back towards the centre. Though I agree after the cull they did in 2019 even this looks doubtful.

    Maybe I am being pessimistic due to the circles I go round in, but what I see so far is the slump in Conservative support not being matched by enthusiasm for Labour.



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    #12630
    Randycove
    Registered Users Posts: 151 ✭✭Randycove


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197725#Comment_122197725

    I think that is in part, due to a general malaise in politics in the uk. I get the impression from friends and collleagues there, that post brexit referendum people are just fed up with the lot of them.



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    #12631
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,404 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197693#Comment_122197693

    The left here never got over Thatcher and have since positioned themselves in opposition to her policies when the rest of the country has moved on. Most people don't care about privatisation for the most part though we can clearly see that water privatisation was a monumentally stupid idea.

    It does beg the question of what a "real" Labour party would look like. As far as I can tell, it would be pro-Putin, pro-Brexit, pro-nationalisation and very much in favour of high taxes.

    The Unions themselves are far from innocent. By advancing political interests, they showed the seeds of their own decline.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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