General British politics discussion thread

Randycove

the problem with Brexit, was that it was different things to different people and if you look at the way London voted, it would be easy to deduce that banking had very little to do with it.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122306182#Comment_122306182

The original claim was that the financial sector lobbied for Brexit when Cameron's attempt to protect them from new EU legislation failed. This patently untrue. No sector of the economy lobbied for Brexit but some individual organisations did such as the RMT union, the Bakers' union, JCB, Wetherspoons and Tate & Lyle.

There's a whole field of scholarship on WW1's origins so I can't see that being a fair comparison. Brexit is the result of a petty psychodrama between a few hundred people at most with the rest of us paying the price.

rock22

@ancapailldorcha "There's a whole field of scholarship on WW1's origins so I can't see that being a fair comparison."

In the future I can see a whole field of scholarship examining Brexit and how the hell could it happen. But I agree, it is not a really good comparison.

In many ways it was an accident. Cameron wanted a referendum to show how serious he was but couldn't be bothered to really campaign in facour of it and the EU. Voters were happy to give the government a bloody nose. Don't forget a similar thing happened in Ireland with the Lisbon treaty. In that, our farmers campaigned against it in the mistaken believe they could extract some sort of extra farm payment. Only difference, our government gave us another chance to get the right result.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122306916#Comment_122306916

Cameron's referendum was supposed to die in coalition talks with the Liberal Democrats. Nobody here expected him to get a majority after 2010.

With Brexit, pretty much everything is known about the origins. There's not some trove of documents likely to appear shedding more light on it. Well, probably not….

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122306916#Comment_122306916

WW1 accelerated Irish independence and weakened the British Empire so it worked out! if we are lucky Bexit accelerated a UI so again good job!

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122306916#Comment_122306916

For me this summed up all that was wrong with the campaign:

flatty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122305083#Comment_122305083

This was Irish lads who'd been labouring there for years telling us to avoid Irish gangerman. It was the general thinking it seemed, and was surprising at the time. We were indeed told this on several occasions.

It was on canary wharfe and around there in the late nineties.

We only really hung around with Irish lads. It was just the way it was. Irish labourers drinking in Irish bars. That was us.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122307006#Comment_122307006

As I said I know you were talking about Irish people. That attitude is in now way exclusive to English people. I just found it much more prevalent and openly spoken especially amongst people who you wouldn't expect it from.

Sam Russell

The point about Brexit was that there was one argument for Remain - the EU has been good for Britain, particularly since the single market came into existence - allowing Europe to have no borders.

On the other hand, the Leave campaign had no plan or even outline of what Brexit would mean - at all.

They just had to push any number of buttons that energised any voter that had grievances - whether genuine or imagined and generally this was reinforced by false and misleading points. Many of these points were just complete lies and totally fake. But because there were so many of them, it was impossible for Remain to fact check and prove them to be the lies they were.

Much of the Leave campaign harked back to the Empire that was long lost, the world power Britain once was but long lost, or the manufacturing world leadership that was long lost.

They used to say at one time: - 'If it is not made in Birmingham, it is not made' such was their leadership in manufacturing. [Mind you, that was in Victorian times!]

Even the strength of Sterling was long lost. [Before 1948, GB£1= US$4, and before Brexit €1=GB£0.66, and now it hovers around GB£1=US$1.25 and €1=GB£0.85]

Probably all this talk of what was lost for Britain, since WW II, is the reason the referendum was lost.

[Edit: Exchange rate now for GB£ is €1=GB£0.85 - thanks to nachouser for correction]

nachouser

Typo there, should be .85.

Tom Mann Centuria

Andecdotal tales aren't this forums favourite but there's lots of Lib Dem posters in people's front gardens here in coastal Somerset, only Tory sign I've seen is one in a farmers field.

Timberrrrrrrr

Devestating for the Tories if true, Lib Dems as opposition and Tories reduced to 3rd place

Same poll also has reform on 18 seats so make what you will of it.

https://twitter.com/alexharmstrong/status/1806003529141686465?t=vGnTfg8QPmn-ccRgX3UWzg&s=19

Podge_irl

I strongly suspect that it will turn out no one had a clue how to set up their MRP polls given how weird an election this is.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122307834#Comment_122307834

It would be fantastic to see. About time the Tories and their legions of press pals were annihilated : ironically, their beloved Brexit was the thing that set the train wreck in motion.

Shoog

Like two corpses warmed over.

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122307824#Comment_122307824

LibDems seem to have a thing about getting billboards on stakes out. Over in Harpenden & Berkhamsted (i'll skip the story for now) they are all over the place.

PommieBast

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/06/26/philip-davies-bet-shipley-west-yorkshire/

I need sleep ..

Enzokk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122308642#Comment_122308642

And the problem for Sunak, Starmer suspended a Labour candidate for doing the same. He may want to hide behind having an investigation as he usually does but there is now a direct correlation between Labour and the Tories. He either has to drop him today or be accused of being weak, again. Talk about being between a rock and a hard place.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122308663#Comment_122308663

For both Labour and the Tories, "dropping a candidate" at this point is a bit of tokenism. Nominations have closed; regardless of what Sunak says or doesn't say now, Philip Davies will be on the ballot paper in Shipley, labelled as the Conservative Party candidate, and there will be no other Conservative Party candidate on the ballot. Being dropped as the official Tory candidate might cost him a few votes, but I suspect not as many being revealed to have bet £8,000 on himself to lose will have cost him.

Timberrrrrrrr

Greg Hands tweets about a woman who has been a "lifelong Labour voter" who has this time decided she will be voting conservative.

Turns out that said woman has been a Tory councillor for 25 years 🤦‍♂️🤣

https://twitter.com/mrhenrymorris/status/1806205440537022704?t=pwf1vZtAUuxWxPANOt3fwQ&s=19

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122308781#Comment_122308781

Whatever about them still trying to get away with sh1t like this the fact that they still don't understand why they cant get away with it is actually more of a reason for them not to be in power imo.

gmisk

Cchq renaming their twitter again (they have form) to look like a fact checking service ahead of debate on bbc

wazzzledazzle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122308857#Comment_122308857

Morally bankrupt, conniving, deceitful

Many adjectives can be used for the Tories. Anyone who votes for them should be ashamed of themselves

Timberrrrrrrr

Another day another Tory caught betting

This time its Esther McVey's husband Phillip Davies betting £8k in himself to lose his seat, says he "has done nothing wrong".

https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1806037385215701162?t=Sb2wBHVBAOkO7G-9elb-uA&s=19

wazzzledazzle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122309042#Comment_122309042

I have searched high and low on this and while it doesn't appear to be illegal, it is absolutely ethically wrong. Anyway. An article ifg.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/comment/gambling-betting-scandal-trust-politics

Enzokk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122308730#Comment_122308730

You are right, it is symbolic at the moment more than anything. The time has been spent canvassing in the area already and having to "drop" a candidate now will not make a huge difference, but it about "showing leadership". Its not really about that for me, it is about being able to think on your feet. Sunak has shown consistently he is unable to adjust and pivot to doing the right thing, instead hiding behind the excuse of investigations not allowing him to make decisions. This was just another example when the result of doing something would not have cost him that much, but not doing anything has been so much more hurtful to him and the party.

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122309042#Comment_122309042

Sunaks got a problem now that Starmer axed the Labour candidate who did this, if he doesnt he will look incredibly weak compared to Starmer.

However i also think Starmers also backed himself into a corner for being so quick to ditch his candidate for betting against himself. While ethically wrong its nowhere close to what the tories were doing with the election date betting and by all accounts many politicians do this as a weird kind of tradition so now if it ends up a ton of labour candidates have been betting for or against themselves then he cant axe them all and will have to walk back as well.

The Newsagents were suggesting this is all becoming a needless moral panic about gambling full stop and i kind of agree, the focus needs to be solely on those using privileged info to enrich themselves.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122309058#Comment_122309058

I'd imagine that the bookies at the very least would invalidate the bet though?

How is this any different to a Sports person betting against themselves ?

If you are in a position to manipulate the result then you shouldn't be allowed to bet on it.

wazzzledazzle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122309398#Comment_122309398

I agree with you. They can and probably will do that, unless of course the bookie wants some exposure and pays it out.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122309398#Comment_122309398

Depends. They may be wary of having their reputation dragged through the mud similar to Coutts. There's also an argument that an MP who knows they will lose only does so because of polls and there's nothing that will change it at this point.