General British politics discussion thread

serfboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122502936#Comment_122502936

For me the best part is that she's quoting the Bill Clinton phrase "it's the economy, stupid" exactly at the moment when the sign saying "I crashed the economy" comes down. They couldn't have know that she was going to say that, so the timing was perfect.

Headshot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122502853#Comment_122502853

"That isn't funny"

She's right it's hysterically funny.

She'll never amount to anything in politics ever again, what ever the wind blows, Liz will follow it hoping she can stay someway relative

Enzokk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122446070#Comment_122446070

Scottish Ministers declare war on pensioners…

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/14/scotland-scraps-universal-winter-fuel-payment-in-preparation-for-more-cuts

"Scottish ministers have scrapped a universal winter fuel payment and are preparing deep cuts in other spending after the UK chancellor, Rachel Reeves, warned of a £22bn black hole.

Shona Robison, Scotland’s finance secretary, accused the UK government of preparing for austerity by stealth after she ordered civil servants to rein back on all non-essential spending.

Robison said the decision to axe the £160m winter fuel payment for all pensioners had been forced by Reeves’s announcement that the same benefit was being withdrawn in other parts of the UK.

Reeves said the £22bn hole in her budget had been bequeathed by the former Conservative government, and cuts were unavoidable. Scotland will mirror the move to pay only those on pension credit or other means-tested benefits."

Reality hits really hard when it reaches you. They have made the same calculations that Labour did and probably realised they cannot get out of this hole without going against what they said only 2 months ago. I was understanding of Labour and the situation they find themselves in and I am of the SNP as well, but it is funny that they are blaming Labour for their decision here just like Labour is blaming the Conservatives for their decision.

A Dub in Glasgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122503905#Comment_122503905

You don't seem to understand how devolved governments get their funding, do you?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122503916#Comment_122503916

Why can Scotland have free 3rd level education and not a winter fuel allowance ?

flatty

I suspect she's scrapped it for some.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122504009#Comment_122504009

For the same reason that Westminster finds it possible to abolish the English winter fuel allowance than to restrict English student loans.

Like it or not, non-means-tested benefit payments are a tap that can be turned on or off at will; student financing is a longer-term commitment that is more difficult to make short-term adjustments to. Students at Scottish (and English) universities have taken up courses, and made other decisions and commitments, based on a particular funding model; now that they're committed, you can't change the funding model. Any changes can only be prospective, affecting future enrolments, which means that the full financial effect isn't felt for four years. That's no use, if what you're trying to do is plug a deficit in this year's budget.

Plus, cuts in education funding foreseeably translate into fewer people taking up educational opportunities, which has implications for long-term growth. All other things being equal, if you have to make cuts you prefer to make cuts which don't reduce growth, and therefore future tax revenue, rather than those which do.

That's not to say that their weren't other cuts that the Scottish Government (or the Westminster government) couldn't have considered as an alternative to (or in addition to) means-testing the winter fuel allowance (and in fact the artocle Enzokk linked to points out that they are considering cuts to "free school meals and other benefits"). But cutting the provision of 3rd-level education doesn't look like a good option in the current circumstances.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122504864#Comment_122504864

My point was a bit more simple than that.

Nothing specifically to do with education but pointing out that using "because Westminster cut it" doesn't hold up as an excuse for the SNP or Glasgo above who suggested that was the case.

rock22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122504873#Comment_122504873

But Scotland is not independent, it is relying on Westminster for much of its overall funding and how it spends it.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/scottish-budget-guide/pages/scottish-budget-2023-to-2024-guide/

So only an independent Scotland could be criticised for its spending decisions

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122504873#Comment_122504873

Holyrood isn't obliged to mirror Westminster's spending decisions (or any other decisions), certainly; the whole point of devolution is that it gives the freedom to make different decisions.

But the formula under which Holyrood gets a share of national tax revenues operates in a way that means that the factors that lead Westminister decision to cut fuel benefits will also lead to a reduction in the payment that Westminster makes to Holyrood. So Holyrood is going to have to make some cuts to something. And, while they're to some extent free to make their own decisions about what to cut (or what taxes to raise so as to avoid having to make cuts), the context and circumstances and parameters that have led Westminster to choose the winter fuel allowance, as opposed to some other cut, are pretty similar to the context and circumstances and parameters that will shape and constrain the decision Holyrood takes. So while they're free to make a radically different decision, if they end up making a very similar decision, that's not an enitrely astonishing outcome.

But, yeah, pretending that they are forced to mirror Westminster's cuts is not entirely honest. Even if they blame Westminster for their constrained financial situation, if Holyrood can see a better way of managing that situation that cutting winter fuel allowance they are free to pursue it.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122504913#Comment_122504913

Thanks for clearing up whether or not Scotland was independent. I would never have known.

It's relying on Westminster for it's funding but not how it spends it. The SNP were not obligated to cut the winter fuel allowance. They may have to cut something just like every other part of the UK is having to do but are not forced to copy England in this cut.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122504913#Comment_122504913

It also has its own devolved government. The devolved government can be criticised for things that fall within its remit.

rock22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122504931#Comment_122504931

But, to a certain extent, it is relying on Westminster for how it spends it

Quote from the link I posted( which you have no doubt read)

"The Scottish Budget is funded mainly through annual funding from the UK Government, known as the Scottish block grant, and devolved tax revenues. The block grant is calculated with reference to changes in spending on equivalent public services in England. ......There are rules that govern how Scotland receives and manages its funding and these are set out in the UK Government’s Statement of Funding Policy and in the Fiscal Framework. The Fiscal Framework is an agreement between the Scottish and United Kingdom governments, which details how Scotland must manage its funding. ...... The agreement also details the arrangements for the adjustments made to the Scottish block grant, to account for the devolution of certain tax and social security powers – these are called ‘Block Grant Adjustments’."

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122504949#Comment_122504949

Ok yo simple question.

Do you believe the SNP were forced to make specifically the cut to winter fuel allowance because Labour did ?

And I mean specifically the winter fuel allowance and not cuts in general because their budget was cut.

rock22

The simple answer is I don't know because I don't know what is in the Fiscal Arrangement agreement. But, presumably, if the Scottish government did not make that cut then they would have to make a cut somewhere else to fund the deficit.

I didn't introduce Scotland into this discussion, I think it is irrelevant and a bit of 'whataboutery'. The discussion was about the cuts made by Westminster until this 'what about the SNP' posts were made.

Let me ask you a question, Do you think the Scottish government could not make the cut and insist on Westminster therefore not applying cuts to the Scotland block grant?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505220#Comment_122505220

The "discussion" about Westminster was weeks back. We are discussing Scotland now who made their own decision.

You come in telling us that Scotland cannot be blamed but now you "don't know". Well the answer is they get to decide which cuts to make so making this specific cut is on them.

No Scotland cannot insist on not cutting the block grant which is a question I preempted by saying "specifically" the fuel cut.

rock22

@breezy1985 "No Scotland cannot insist on not cutting the block grant "

Surely then , a cut of some sort was inevitable in Scotland?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505415#Comment_122505415

Yes cuts were inevitable I said that all along so don't know why you are asking again.

I made sure to point this out when I asked the question "And I mean specifically the winter fuel allowance and not cuts in general because their budget was cut"

Cutting specifically (and be sure to actually grasp the meaning of that word this time) fuel allowance was not "forced" as the SNP claim.

A Dub in Glasgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122504009#Comment_122504009

That would not have helped at all in this instance as student funding has already been spent before Labour made their decision. My son is at uni and his funding letter arrived end of June for the 2024/25 year

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505549#Comment_122505549

I just used education as an example as to how Scotland can decide what to fund. I didn't mean take education funding to keep the fuel bill and wouldn't be a fan of such an idea.

A Dub in Glasgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505571#Comment_122505571

Scotland (under devolution) has not even paid out the like for like replacement for the UK govt winter fuel payments. This was a recently devolved area of benefit that was due to start this winter coming. Public consultations have been running over the last couple of years as the Scottish govt set up the department and check on eligibility. The decision was to mirror UK govt (certainly for the first few years) but the UK govt decision to means test it has driven a coach and horse through the whole process. In reality, there is little the Scottish govt could do for the winter payment this year and possibly even next year. There are elections to Holyrood in 2026 and I suspect that is when it will come to a head.

We currently have the ludicrous situation of Labour and Tories in Scotland demanding the Scottish govt take measures to 'mitigate' policies implemented by Labour and Tory UK governments.

A Dub in Glasgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505430#Comment_122505430

On this, the decision by UK govt to restrict access to a universal benefit is not a cut to the current block grant as that universal benefit was reserved until later this year. The UK govt budget at the end of October will likely have cuts to public spending which will then mean cuts to all the block grants to the devolved governments / administrations. The Scottish budget will come after this UK budget (once they know what funding they have) in early December. Those devolved areas do not know what is being cut and the extent of the cuts so cannot make decisions to mitigate the winter fuel payment cut already announced (certainly not for this winter).

Randycove

I would guess that SNP cuts to the winter fuel payments have more to do with trying to find more cash to throw down the Ferguson marine black hole than it is to fund third level education.

A Dub in Glasgo

Labour appoint another donor to a top civil service job… that change Starmer was talking about is looking very samey

https://twitter.com/HenryNewman/status/1824383292935676384

Thargor

Gone very boring without the Tories, I miss firing up the UKpolitics Reddit every morning for the daily/hourly scandal.

Randycove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122510701#Comment_122510701

I’m sure this will be debated on here with the same rigor and gusto as Vaughan Gething accepting bungs from dodgy waste management companies was.

Ie, tumbleweed.

breezy1985

What I find odd but not surprising is the legality of this

"She was previously a partner at consultancy firm Public Digital, which funded her secondment to Mr Kyle's office in opposition to the value of more than £65,000"

Am I right in thinking that is a company "donating" it's staff into roles alongside powerful people ?

If so that's surely a level of access that should not be allowed.

A Dub in Glasgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122510998#Comment_122510998

Yes, Labour had loads of lobbyists and consultants offered to them 'free of charge'. The quid pro quo is the level of access they then get and the cushy appointments / nods. Stinks of corruption and it certainly is not a change from the previous lot in that regard.

flatty

Lobbying in general should be illegal, and policed hard as such. It is the heartbeat of govt corruption.