General British politics discussion thread

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117873003#Comment_117873003

The UK has shown in the past that if they don't like Monarch they will execute them or replace them with one from Holland or elsewhere.

The Royal Family should pay close attention to the DUP's playbook and heed Carson's words "What a fool I was. I was only a puppet, and so was Ulster, and so was Ireland, in the political game that was to get the Conservative Party into power." Because if the House of Windsor falls out of favour with the electorate in key marginals the pursestrings would be an easy target after Liz pops her clogs. How many houses do they need that aren't making money as tourist attractions ?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117873393#Comment_117873393

Open to correction, but only the Lords Commissioners (of which there are five) can sign the Royal Assent.

Joe_ Public

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117873393#Comment_117873393

There is a lords advisory commission which can give its opinion on prospective peers which the pm can discard at his whim (cf. Johnson's appointment of Peter Cruddas).

I was obviously wrong on the numbers, it's been steadily around or over the 800 mark for some time. Blair, I recall, introduced a law banning hereditary peerages, only then to start dispensing them to his mates like Christmas cards. I think one of his political aides even got one.

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117873535#Comment_117873535

Like a lot of the UK "constitution" it's unclear what could happen with a rogue PM and parliament. What should happen is just wishful thinking.

Queen can sign herself but doesn't so it falls to the Lords Commissioners who are in the PM's pocket if the House of Lords has been stuffed with new appointees. Last time a monarch didn't toe the line was in 1707. But that's when the privy council can be rolled out.

https://www.open.edu/openlearn/society-politics-law/law/what-royal-assent-and-why-dont-laws-come-force-straight-away

Queen Anne was the last monarch to withhold a Royal Assent, when she blocked a Scottish Militia Bill in 1707. The Queen feared a Scottish militia might be turned against the monarchy.

Since the sixteenth century* no monarch has actually signed a Bill themselves. Instead, the monarch signs what are known as Letters Patent which announce that an assent has been given. Alternatively, the monarch signs a document known as a Commission which commands certain Lords, known as Royal Commissioners, to let both Houses of Parliament know that Royal Assent has been given.

* Commission Act 1541, introduced so that Henry VIII did not have to assent in person to the legislative murder of his wife,

https://policyexchange.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Putting-Royal-Assent-in-Doubt.pdf

The position is summarised by Anne Twomey in The Veiled Sceptre: Reserve Powers of Heads of State in Westminster Systems at pages 627–28:

“In the United Kingdom, the Queen gives assent to bills by signing letters patent

prepared by the Clerk of the Crown, listing every bill that has been passed by

the Houses by the assent date. No advice is given by ministers and there is no

involvement of the Privy Council. The list of bills ready for assent prepared

by the Clerk of the Crown is authorised by the Clerk of the Parliaments. It is

therefore Parliament that determines the bills to which the Queen grants royal

assent.”

The Lords Commissioners include the Leaders of the Labour party in the Lords, the Leader of the Liberal Party in the Lords, the Leader of the Conservative Party in the Lords, The Lord Speaker and the convener of the Cross Party Group of Peers.

so one out of the five is "In the PM's Pocket", depending on which party the PM is from.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117871899#Comment_117871899

They also have a weighted majority voting system in the Council of Ministers, which accords a greater weight to smaller member states than would be justified by a strictly proportionate-to-population allocation.

And of course in the US, each state has the same number of votes in the Senate, regardless of population. Several other federal countries have similar arrangements. And the US presidential electoral system over-represents the votes of the less populous states.

So, weighting voting rights other than in strict proportion to population is pretty common, and not generally regarded as fundamentally undemocratic. None of which means that the UK has to do it in the allocation of England's parliamentary constituencies, but at least it means that strictly-proportional-to-population allocation should not be a given.

Capt'n Midnight

Boundaries review on MPs leaves five battles looming (Wales)

Four of those five battles are among opposition parties. The Tories have kept also Anglesey as a single constituency rather than include nationalist areas. Tories gonna Tory.

May not sound like much, but this would have been enough to give Theresa May a majority without needing the DUP. And with 10 extra seats in England they'd have no problem parachuting a deposed Welsh MP into a safe seat if push came to shove.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117873586#Comment_117873586

Not a particular fan of Tony Blair, but this is wrong. The only hereditary peerage handed out during his period in office was the Earldom of Wessex, conferred on Prince Edward at the time of his marriage in 1999.

The last Prime Minister to confer hereditary peerages on anyone not a member of the Royal Family was Margaret Thatcher, who gave out out three. The last Labour Prime Minister to confer a hereditary peerage on anyone other than a royal was Clement Atlee.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117883148#Comment_117883148

Over the last ten general elections, Ynis Mon has been conservative twice, Plaid three times and Labour five times. By no stretch of he imagination is that a safe seat for anyone, least of all the Tories.

Joe_ Public

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117883182#Comment_117883182

Life peers. In 10 years in charge, Blair created 374 life peers which rather undermined his commitments to reform the upper chamber. I wasn't saying Blair was dishing out hereditary peerages like confetti, because that obviously is not within the gift of any prime minister and, as I said, he'd abolished the practice anyway through legislation.

Since the life peerages act was passed in 1958, no pm has created more life peers than Tony Blair. Though expressed as an annual percentage, I think Cameron might just sneak ahead.

Joe_ Public

As an aside, when I say heritary peers were outlawed, that's not entirely true, as 92 were left as a sort of compromise. Which is why we got this rather rum state of affairs just a few weeks back.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jul/12/tony-benns-son-takes-house-of-lords-seat-renounced-by-his-father

Peregrinus

There's usually a spike in life peerage creations in the first term after a change of government, esp. when a party has been out of office for a long time. Blair came into office when Labour had been out of office for 18 years.

Plus, in Blair's case, his first-term figures are artificially inflated because it was during that period when the automatic sitting rights of hereditary peers were abolished. That process involved granting a slew of life peerages to various hereditary peers who had been politically active, and who were felt for one reason or another to have a good case for being allowed to continue to be so. IIRC, most of them were Tories.

None of which is to defend Blair's peerages in particular or the peerage system in general. But if you are looking for an egregious example of abuse it's Johnson, A B de P. Since coming to office he has created life peerages at a faster rate than any other Prime Minister ever, even though (obviously) his coming to office did not follow a long period of his party being out of power - quite the opposite.

Sam Russell

I would like to see the House of Lords abolished as it has been as a court of law.

I would have it replaced with a Senate modelled on the USA Senate. The UK is divided into regions, 9 or so for England, then Scotland, NI, and Wales. So 12 in all.

Those regions have a typical population of 5 million, but much less for Wales and NI.

Each region would elect a number of Senators by STV, multi seat, constituencies, in a fixed term election. Of course the HoC should also use STV.

How many Senators? Well the USA manages (if you call it that) with 100, so let us say that 9 senators per region, and 3 senators for each constituency for each region, but perhaps 12 Senators for each region might be a better figure. Now to give an incoming Gov some control, perhaps a number of senators could be appointed by the incoming PM to each region or constituency, so an extra 12, 36 or 48 Gov Senators. It would be a good requirement that a certain number of Cabinet Ministers, with a minimum number as senior ministers are Senators.

It would be a significant move to increase democracy in the UK, so it has zero chance of even being discussed.

BlitzKrieg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117858550#Comment_117858550

The problem is the places that support such ideas are surprisingly the furthest point away from London. I was working remote for a company in scotland for the last year and they've offered me a longer contract and promotion if I move to scotland and start working from the office. Which I agreed to, then they told me I dont have to be in the office every day, that I can do 3-4 day week's in the office and 1-2 days at home depending on what work I was doing. This is all happening up in stirling.

London is where such ideas need to be embraced but it's a little animation company in stirling that seems to be all up for doing it, while most of the studios in London are trying to get everyone back into their expensive office spaces.

Joe_ Public

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117883974#Comment_117883974

I have seen a few big firms like Google and others publicly endorse the benefits of "hybrid" working, so that is at least a start. But I would tend to agree that we won't get very fundamental change in the areas it's most needed. Best we could hope for, i think, is a very gradual cultural shift over a number of years which i'm not convinced will add up to a huge amount when we reach critical points and see how much their climate targets are being missed by.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117883974#Comment_117883974

This makes sense. A lot of London firms will be spending big on overheads. For some firms, there may be prestige involved in the address as well. Personally, I think it's insane given the vast benefits to be reaped by employer and employee alike from more flexible arrangements. I work in a lab so it's sadly not an option for me but it'd be tragic if people here got sold out just for the bottom lines of people like Alan Sugar.

Living in London means that I'm unlikely to ever own a property. I've a housemate who just got an office job with a firm here. She has her eye on Milton Keynes and there's no reason she couldn't head up there and just WFH with the odd trip to London when necessary. I've a friend in the Department of International Trade who I don't think has been to the office in 18 months now. Outside London, public transport can be hit and miss. Inside London, the cost of everything makes long term living here unrealistic. I spend £200 a month on the tube. In Manchester, my bus ticket was less than £45 a month.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117883874#Comment_117883874

sure, the world needs more Americanisation. Not that your proposed solution is very American except by having a senate. Lots of countries have senates though.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117894422#Comment_117894422

Actually it mirrors to some extent our system. The Irish Senate here is elected by a tiny elite - graduates of a few universities and by elected politicians with a bias towards rural politicians and that needs to change. This UK Senate (that I propose) would be elected by universal suffrage by multi-seat STV. Each region would have equal number of seats - in that sense it mirrors the USA Senate, but only in that regard.

I am not proposing an American solution but a directly elected second chamber with a fixed term, but perhaps with appointed representatives by the Gov of the day - that would prevent the Gov being hamstrung.

Clearly, the proposal relies on regions (12 or so) getting devolved powers that remove most of the central Gov powers. Consequently, it would make sense to reduce the number of MPs in the HoC - perhaps 320 would be enough.

Of course, FPTP would be abolished as well in al elections, replaced by STV.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117894608#Comment_117894608

The “of course” is actually the least likely think to happen. The British rejected the alternative vote a few years ago.

There might be a reform of the House of Lords though, if labour get in.

An American system would be interesting if it mapped seats to States. In the UK That would be equal seats for Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland. 2 each. Can’t see the English agreeing to that.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117894645#Comment_117894645

In my original post I expressed the idea knowing that the probability of any part of it being implemented was less than zero.

cml387

Liz Truss gets Foreign Secretary and is the big winner in the reshuffle.

Dare one say;blessed are the cheesemakers?

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117895849#Comment_117895849

Came here to post about this.

Really epitomizes the Johnson strategy of awarding positions based on personal relationships rather than capability. Don't think anyone could defend her being appointed to such a key role.

Larbre34

Dominic Raab said to be "very angry". Well done Boris for once.

breezy1985

Good God Michael Gove is the housing and levelling up secretary

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117896206#Comment_117896206

Laura Keunnsberg as good as said that he was given the Deputy PM role as a sweetener. She practically said it was worthless.

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117896206#Comment_117896206

"As we welcome the eighth justice secretary in the last 10 years to play this vital role, the need for a consistent and strong voice in government for our justice system could not be greater."

Here's the popularity ratings amongst Tory party members. Well done Boris :rolleyes:

beggars_bush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117884448#Comment_117884448

There are people living on the aran islands and working remotely for google and microsoft.

It can be done

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117896697#Comment_117896697

It's worthy of its own discussion but big tech firms are probably licking their lips at the idea of significant chunks of their workers being based in lower cost regions.

Wouldn't be surprised to see governments bring in requirements for x number of employers based in the same region in order to avail of tax benefits or whatever.

Ireland entertained favourable tax deals with some of these companies in order to gain the significant employment that came along with it. That's less attractive if all work can be done remotely. Maybe a hybrid option of x number of days in office per week/month solves that issue.

Joe_ Public

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117896598#Comment_117896598

Grant Shapps somehow manages to escape the axe. Again. All those public appearances as the patsy/useful idiot whenever the media had the scent of blood during the various covid debacles obviously keeping him in credit in the bank. Liz Truss the star of the show. The mind well and truly boggles.

fiveleavesleft

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897135#Comment_117897135

Still not as mad as the other side. Recent thought coming out of Starmer's Labour is that they need to junk the Shadow Cab & form an unconventional freewheeling ‘Political Cabinet’ which will include Instagram influencers & Love Island contestants.