Test - Shoulder checks

steamsey

Hi. Test coming up on Monday and am a bit confused after pre test yesterday.

I was told to only do shoulder checks during turns where you're on a major road, moving to a more minor road. Apparently they are failing people for too many shoulder checks. Does this sound right? I was told if driving in an estate, for example, to only check mirrors when turning.

zubair

steamsey wrote: »

Hi. Test coming up on Monday and am a bit confused after pre test yesterday.

I was told to only do shoulder checks during turns where you're on a major road, moving to a more minor road. Apparently they are failing people for too many shoulder checks. Does this sound right? I was told if driving in an estate, for example, to only check mirrors when turning.

Did you do a pre test lesson? There really shouldn't be anything blurry about when to shoulder check going into your test. You should definitely get more lessons or ask your current instructor about anything you're unsure of. Shoulder check when turning, all turns, and when you're changing lane position. As my instructor said, imagine you're in the city centre for the test.

The best of luck with it, let us know how you get on.

two wheels good

I doubt a failure is for too many shoulder-checks; more like shoulder checks at the wrong time.
As Zubair says, at all turns and lane changes. That includes exiting roundabouts.
Don't get hung-up on doing too many.Think about being consistent and actually looking into the blind-spot; not just an indifferent half-turn of the head.
Good luck and dry weather!

listermint

In its basic form you are going to be doing shoulder checks in your blind spots where you expect vehicles to come at you.

Changing lanes look over your shoulder fully so you can understand what's coming up in the lane your moving to

Doing a turn you will want to see who's coming both directions. Ahead and shoulder behind.

Coming around a roundabout , blindspots exist on your left when turning off a roundabout so should check to the left to know what vehicle is there or if someone is under cutting you.


Shoulder checks are for knowledge.


You should be glancing the mirrors every so often on straights to get a view of the road behind. Every so often not every thirty seconds.


All this comes natural it's about informing your brain with your eyes.

lalababa

Is it a big thing?..to stop in 1st gear as you need your right foot on brake when stopped therefore your left foot down.
Should you really always do this on a test?
I'm defo in the habit of having my right foot down as I haven't got into always going into 1st before stopping and my natural way is right foot down. (I also think I have a stiffness injury in my left side)
Would you get marked down if you haven't right foot on brake or if you were changing feet Abit to change down?

zubair

lalababa wrote: »

Is it a big thing?..to stop in 1st gear as you need your right foot on brake when stopped therefore your left foot down.
Should you really always do this on a test?
I'm defo in the habit of having my right foot down as I haven't got into always going into 1st before stopping and my natural way is right foot down. (I also think I have a stiffness injury in my left side)
Would you get marked down if you haven't right foot on brake or if you were changing feet Abit to change down?

Left for down for the test, and should be in first so no changing gears when stationary. The reason for this is so you can get away if an incident were to occur.

steamsey

Left foot down for test for sure.

I passed!! Tallaght - this morning. 1st attempt. Just about got it but delighted all the same. Did more shoulder checks than I was told to during pre test. Got a mark for failing to make progress and also for the overtake as I did not move out far enough past instructor's car. Also 2 marks for missing shoulder checks but I've no idea where as I thought I got them all. Got a mark for observation on the slow ride....again - no idea what I did wrong.

One question I was asked that I did not study for was what percentage front / back brake roughly in terms of stopping power - I said 70% front and he seemed to accept it. All other questions were expected ones.

IrishGrimReaper

Didn't know they asked that question. Should have answered 100% stopping power from the front sir as rear brakes don't work.

Congratulations on passing the test

zubair

Grats!

clelia!

steamsey wrote: »

Left foot down for test for sure.

I passed!! Tallaght - this morning. 1st attempt. Just about got it but delighted all the same. Did more shoulder checks than I was told to during pre test. Got a mark for failing to make progress and also for the overtake as I did not move out far enough past instructor's car. Also 2 marks for missing shoulder checks but I've no idea where as I thought I got them all. Got a mark for observation on the slow ride....again - no idea what I did wrong.

One question I was asked that I did not study for was what percentage front / back brake roughly in terms of stopping power - I said 70% front and he seemed to accept it. All other questions were expected ones.

Congratulations on passing! It must be some relief.

I'm doing my test for the first time on weds in tallaght. Any tips?

When did you do shoulder checks in the test? I have only been checking my blindspot changing lanes and moving off from side of road.

Thanks in advance!

two wheels good

zubair wrote: »

Left for down for the test, and should be in first so no changing gears when stationary. The reason for this is so you can get away if an incident were to occur.

Is that the official message to learners? I'd always avoid sitting at a stop line with the clutch disengaged - mechanical sympathy for my clutch. Then do the shuffle in anticipation of riding away.

zubair

two wheels good wrote: »

Is that the official message to learners? I'd always avoid sitting at a stop line with the clutch disengaged - mechanical sympathy for my clutch. Then do the shuffle in anticipation of riding away.

For the test, you can do what you like the rest of the time. But I'm not sure what your describing to be honest.

zubair

clelia! wrote: »

Congratulations on passing! It must be some relief.

I'm doing my test for the first time on weds in tallaght. Any tips?

When did you do shoulder checks in the test? I have only been checking my blindspot changing lanes and moving off from side of road.

Thanks in advance!

See above :-)

steamsey

clelia! wrote: »

Congratulations on passing! It must be some relief.

I'm doing my test for the first time on weds in tallaght. Any tips?

When did you do shoulder checks in the test? I have only been checking my blindspot changing lanes and moving off from side of road.

Thanks in advance!

Yeah it's great to have it done. Will look into some advanced riding courses soon.

My pre test instructor told me no need to do turning shoulder checks if in a 30km/h estate. This confused the sh*t out of me so I basically ignored him and did them everywhere during the test. He did say to do them as normal on more major roads though. I'm just mentioning this in case you hear it too as I was told it's a trend now to do fewer shoulder checks on less major roads.

You need to do shoulder checks before you turn, change lanes, change road position, do u-turn, enter / exit dual carriageway, enter and exit roundabout. That's what I did and it seemed to work. He marked me down for missing two shoulder checks. The question is when could something have crept into your blind spot and are you about to move there.

You need to check blindspot before moving out for overtake move - and move out far - I should have moved out to other side of the road (if safe) for the overtake.

I got a point for missing an observation on the slow ride - I thought I checked mirrors before starting and stopping but maybe I missed one or maybe there is another observation I never even considered.

They do seem to be big on making progress - so drive right up to the speed limit. He said I could have gone faster when entering the N7 - I thought I was making good progress so keep that in mind. He said to me afterwards that people expect motorbikes to move - so move. Watch the speed limit signs in Tallaght as they change a lot. If not signposted, I went with 50km/h.

I checked mirrors I'd say every 10 seconds. Check them waiting at lights. Check them after a turn. Checked them before speed bumps (pre test advice). Make sure head is moving so he can see what you're doing.

Also - they'll tell you this but make sure you ride for yourself - don't get distracted by looking for instructor's car. Do your own thing. I lost him at one point after a turn, and luckily I had been forewarned not to freak out if I lose him - just keep driving and he'll tell you what to do.

Best of luck

two wheels good

zubair wrote: »

For the test, you can do what you like the rest of the time. But I'm not sure what your describing to be honest.

I meant I wouldn't sit at a stop line with the bike in first gear, clutch lever in. I prefer to wait in neutral so as not to cause wear on clutch mechanism - and for safety too IMO.
I was wondering if it's official guidance to learners is to keep the bike in gear.
Any learners care to comment?

zubair

Sure, depending on the light sequence I'll kick into neutral too but for the test you should be in gear and obviously clutch in, with rear brake engaged. That was for my test anyway but it could have changed.

newmember2

I see most of the cops putting the left foot down as well - covering the rear brake when stopped - feels totally alien to me - like said...I like to rest in neutral and then bang it into 1st and pull away.
I wonder how many of us would pass the test now if tested?
I wouldn't be looking over my shoulder entering or exiting a roundabout - unless I'm changing lanes or doing something unusual - shure where would the traffic I didn't know about be coming from?

sirmixalot

I had/have a matt black helmet, my instructor told me that I was not turning my head enough and was not really visible when he was following me.
Think someone on here had some great advice to remedy that.

Put a yellow sticky or post it note on each side of the helmet, tape it down, then it was apparent and very visible to see head movements left and right.
Maybe you don't have a black helmet but if you do this might be worth a go.

listermint

newmember? wrote: »

I see most of the cops putting the left foot down as well - covering the rear brake when stopped - feels totally alien to me - like said...I like to rest in neutral and then bang it into 1st and pull away.
I wonder how many of us would pass the test now if tested?
I wouldn't be looking over my shoulder entering or exiting a roundabout - unless I'm changing lanes or doing something unusual - shure where would the traffic I didn't know about be coming from?

Alien ? Your holding the brake and then you off when go. Get away faster. It's the opposite to alien

As for roundabout unless you've a sixth sense a car can under cut you no issues or overtake you no issues on a roundabout anytime. I've had this occur on multiple occasions some drivers can attempt bully manoeuvres.

There's logic to everything in the test it's all actually relativity sensible tbh

listermint

sirmixalot wrote: »

I had/have a matt black helmet, my instructor told me that I was not turning my head enough and was not really visible when he was following me.
Think someone on here had some great advice to remedy that.

Put a yellow sticky or post it note on each side of the helmet, tape it down, then it was apparent and very visible to see head movements left and right.
Maybe you don't have a black helmet but if you do this might be worth a go.

Mines Matt black too. No issues with mine passed first time with what could be construed as a right stick in the mud tester.

You have to be sure to make the checks obvious. Slight glances won't cut it

zubair

listermint wrote: »

Alien ? Your holding the brake and then you off when go. Get away faster. It's the opposite to alien

As for roundabout unless you've a sixth sense a car can under cut you no issues or overtake you no issues on a roundabout anytime. I've had this occur on multiple occasions some drivers can attempt bully manoeuvres.

There's logic to everything in the test it's all actually relativity sensible tbh

I agree, even when I go into neutral I switch back to holding the bike with the rear brake. I see people coming to a stop not using the rear and they just don't look like they're in full control.

I can't tell you the amount of times a shoulder check has saved my ass, no major incidents but had I not checked before hand there would have been.

galwaytt

two wheels good wrote: »

Is that the official message to learners? I'd always avoid sitting at a stop line with the clutch disengaged - mechanical sympathy for my clutch. Then do the shuffle in anticipation of riding away.

there is no wear on your clutch with the lever pulled: if there is, your clutch needs looking at/adjusting.

galwaytt

newmember? wrote: »

I see most of the cops putting the left foot down as well - covering the rear brake when stopped - feels totally alien to me - like said...I like to rest in neutral and then bang it into 1st and pull away.
I wonder how many of us would pass the test now if tested?
I wouldn't be looking over my shoulder entering or exiting a roundabout - unless I'm changing lanes or doing something unusual - shure where would the traffic I didn't know about be coming from?

Unlike OP - congrats btw - if you did the above on a test, you'd have failed.

The only reason you find covering the rear brake alien is too long doing it the wrong way.

And roundabout is a junction.........just a roundy one...checks always needed.

The left-foot-down thing has a practical application: unless you're on a pure flat surface, the bike wants to roll forward or back - this is why you're holding it on (the front) brake atmo. But, when you need to go, your right hand has to do more than one thing: release the brake and roll the throttle on, simultaneously. On hills it can be a bit of a juggle (for some). Or those with small hands. Or bikes with poxy non-adjustable levers. Moving the holding of the bike to your right foot (which is doing nothing anyway), means your right hand has only one thing to do: roll the throttle - and it's relaxed in the interim.

Try it in particular on a big hill, to practice, and see how easy that exercise gets : then just do it all the time.

zubair

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I passed my full test recently and in the pre-test I was told I was

a) doing to many shoulder checks
b) doing them incorrectly/at the wrong time

[/LIST]

Aren't a and b the same thing if you did all the right ones too. Which you must have done to pass.

two wheels good

galwaytt wrote: »

there is no wear on your clutch with the lever pulled: if there is, your clutch needs looking at/adjusting.

Let me clarify .. "mechanical sympathy for my clutch mechanism".

listermint

two wheels good wrote: »

Let me clarify .. "mechanical sympathy for my clutch mechanism".

Makes no sense. Holding it in means no additional pressure than releasing it. Both ways the clutch is engaged twice.

Your way only relieves your hand. That's all

galwaytt

two wheels good wrote: »

Let me clarify .. "mechanical sympathy for my clutch mechanism".

possibly, but if you go to neutral every time, then it's like this:
In gear
Pull Clutch
Select Neutral
Declutch
(traffic light goes green)
Clutch
Select Gear
Release clutch

That's way more wear & tear than:

In gear
Pull Clutch
(traffic light goes green)
Release clutch

nigeldaniel

I have the A test up in a few short weeks and as for stopping in gear I would stop in first if I expect it to be a short time say 30 40 seconds, but if it looks like it could be a big delay I would go into N and use the rear brake to hold.
Shoulder check wise before ever turn, lane change, and after going from a minor road into a major road. That seems to be what I have been taught down here in Kerry.

H_Lime

Jesus I'm dizzy after reading all that:)

Here's what I do. I stop where I need to. And then I go when I need to.

BKtje

I even cut the engine sometimes... though wouldn't recommend for the test

H_Lime

BKtje wrote: »

I even cut the engine sometimes... though wouldn't recommend for the test

Generalised anxiety would not allow me do that:pac: