I'm Never Voting Sinn Fein Again!!

McMurphy

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Blanch has repeatedly claimed to be a Green supporter, do you think he is lying?

Jan O'Sullivan sending out a clear warning to the greens about going into coalition with FFG, I'm wondering if Ryan is cute enough not to get sucked in by the lure of a ministers electric powered car.

https://www.thejournal.ie/jan-osullivan-greens-labour-government-5025961-Mar2020/?utm_source=twitter_short

blanch152

McMurphy wrote: »

Jan O'Sullivan sending out a clear warning to the greens about going into coalition with FFG, I'm wondering if Ryan is cute enough not to get sucked in by the lure of a ministers electric powered car.

https://www.thejournal.ie/jan-osullivan-greens-labour-government-5025961-Mar2020/?utm_source=twitter_short

Ryan is playing this really well.

He will get a deal from Sinn Fein which offers X on Green policies, go to the other two and tell them to beat it. With the better offer from FF and FG, he will be able to bring his party into government with them.

The Greens will be able to tell the world that SF weren't doing enough on climate change.

blanch152

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Blanch I once told you that you were prehaps the most disingenuous poster on Boards. Interestingly I'm not alone in thinking this. Misrepresentation of what others say is also another favourite of yours.
The numbers aren't there however if you wish to continually post this nonsense fire ahead as most already acknowledge SF can't form a government without either FG / FF.

The numbers are there, I actually got it wrong. There are 73 FF and FG seats, meaning that there are 87 available for the anyone but FF/FG alliance. Mary-Lou can't deliver them, that is on her.

You are right that Sinn Fein can't form a government without either FG or FF, but that isn't because the numbers aren't there, it is because there are others who won't do business with her.

RandomName2

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Yeah because the greens have common ground Danny ' to hell with the planet' Healy Rae. Stop being so disingenuous we both know that the numbers aren't there.

Well you should have informed Mary Louise who spent nigh on two weeks talking to the left wing parties in an attempt to form a left wing government.

'Very difficult' she said.

Could it be done? Well, no, it couldn't. Is it because the other left-wing parties don't trust SF? Yes and no. Some would trust SF less than others. Greens and Labour would be less likely to trust SF than Solidarity-PBP or Aontu (naturally Aontu as it is the split from SF). Incidentally I know that the ultranationalist Aontu isn't left-wing, unlike the ultranationalist party it split from, but that's just splitting hairs.

So why do we have posters like blanch deriding SF's inability to form a government?

'It's because he's a paid shill of FIne GAel and their media buddies' cry the non-partisan posters, spittle flying from their lips.

It's not really fair to criticize SF for not having the numbers to form a government, and in all honesty it doesn't really matter to the non-partisan posters who will vote for SF come hell or high water. It does, however, matter to the average voter.

Pragmatically one wants a government to form, with one's preferred political party (or independent). To this end we can consider the numbers game in the longer term. Even if SF had fielded more candidates in this election it would have ended up the same way.

How about if there is another election? Given the most recent poll of 35% support there seems more chance of them being successful in forming a government without FF or FG. That is the sort of 'change' the non-partisan posters keep asking for.

However, that incredible gain of 10% by SF is not without cost to the other left wing parties. About half of that comes from those parties, meaning that the gap is not as narrowed as one might think to forming a 'left wing government'. Moreover, those other small parties must know that SF would intend to destroy them as coalition partners and harvest their support for themselves in subsequent elections. Merely acting in the capacity to give SF the keys to power would be a poor fate for parties who have struggled to obtain a couple of percentage. As SF takes central focus for malcontent with the government so the smaller parties are likely to suffer.

This last point is also a significant one, SF will be anxious to not get into power. At the moment it is clear that they are becoming the standard bearer for opposition, and that role disappears as soon as they have to turn their manifesto into policy. If they are unable to foist blame onto junior coalition partners for their policies not turning out as rosy as they claim they might be in trouble.

In the United Kingdom they waited too long in Stormont. After spending 3 years sitting on their hands refusing to form a government because their views on the Irish language took precedence over running a country, the public got fed up of them - even some of the non-partisans! In Westminster sticking to their guns meant that the Conservative party maintained a working majority. They are well used to playing the waiting game if its a question of ideology over pragmatism.

So the same applies here. They are unlikely to want to form a government given the way things currently lie, and are not really in a position yet to bump off their rivals. Some of the FFFG lickspittles like myself hope that the shot across the bows of the two traditional 'right' wing parties may actually make them get their arses in motion, form a government, and sort out the many pressing issues at hand.

/rambling rant and propaganda

Fann Linn

blanch152 wrote: »

Ryan is playing this really well.

He will get a deal from Sinn Fein which offers X on Green policies, go to the other two and tell them to beat it. With the better offer from FF and FG, he will be able to bring his party into government with them.

The Greens will be able to tell the world that SF weren't doing enough on climate change.

Have ye tomorrow night's lotto numbers also?

maccored

all these SF treads (usually created by the ABSF types) make very entertaining reading. Never in the world of human whinging, have so many whinged about so few (things to whinge about)

Mortelaro

Sleeper12 wrote: »

We have this moronic attitude in Ireland. Point out how bad FG are & someone says "ah but FF are worse". This is the bar they set. So long as they are better than FF all is rosey. Younger voters wanted a higher bar than FF and FG.

Out of curiosity, which country do you want to emulate and how do you expect small open economy Ireland to either fund this or not take 30 years to do it?

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

Ryan is playing this really well.

He will get a deal from Sinn Fein which offers X on Green policies, go to the other two and tell them to beat it. With the better offer from FF and FG, he will be able to bring his party into government with them.

The Greens will be able to tell the world that SF weren't doing enough on climate change.

Do you remember Leo telling the world about the time he sought to interfere with the planning permission to prevent the establishment of a wind farm because Donald Trump's business investment was under threat?


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/varadkar-spoke-to-tourism-body-after-committing-to-help-trump-1.3429558

I wonder what Eamo thought of Leo's green ethos there?

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I thought the new directive from FG HQ was to focus on SF finances so that they can slither into power with FF?

An understandable misconception In cases where the screen guild Newsletter gets missed in among all the SF news letters and topical bullet points of the day
Unfortunately most of the oscar winning fiction script writers have already been hoovered up by SF HQ

blanch152

McMurphy wrote: »

Do you remember Leo telling the world about the time he sought to interfere with the planning permission to prevent the establishment of a wind farm because Donald Trump's business investment was under threat?


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/varadkar-spoke-to-tourism-body-after-committing-to-help-trump-1.3429558

I wonder what Eamo thought of Leo's green ethos there?

You what?

As attempts at whataboutery and deflection go, that one is way left-field.

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

You what?

As attempts at whataboutery and deflection go, that one is way left-field.

You bring in a hypothetical scenario where Eamon Ryan will go running into the arms of FG and FF due to the shinners not "doing enough on climate change".

I give an example of how FG in particular may not be Eamon's saviours on climate change because they're currently being led by a man who sought to interfere in a planning application for a wind farm over protecting big business and it's whatabouting.

Gotcha.

James Brown

Zico wrote: »

They're all talk.

They talk a lot but not to anyone that could make a difference to people's lives.

Come on we've given you the ball what are you going to do?

Oh, they crashed the economy, oversaw national crises worsen year on year, broke records on child homelessness, engaged in crony behaviour...on no that wasn't them.
They didn't get enough seats to form a government but tried, are likely still trying despite it being next to impossible. The blaggards.... :rolleyes:

James Brown

Fred Cryton wrote: »

The real question is why the millennials ever voted for a bunch of semi-literates in the first place.

I'm thinking they're just spoiled. Booming economy, rising wages and full employment not good enough for ye? Want to return to the days of emigration is it?

As well as ignorant of a party where members stand up and applause a man known to have murdered a Guard.

See above coupled with your kind of attitude

Strumms

Fann Linn wrote: »

Considering it didn't happen when FF drove the country over a cliff I hardly think your hysterical scenario will occur now.

Metaphorically they sure had a heavy hand in that scenario but at least it was metaphorically instead of the shinners/IRA actually driving people to their deaths...

walshb

pjohnson wrote: »

How can some people think SF can just rock up take just 23 seats and announce Mary Lou is Taoiseach end off.


People that think that are likely too young to vote I'd say.

These are the type of voters that SF seem to attract....

Bull in a China shop, sledgehammer to a nut..

No nuance, detail, tact!

And very aggressive and combative...

James Brown

walshb wrote: »

These are the type of voters that SF seem to attract....

Bull in a China shop, sledgehammer to a nut..

No nuance, detail, tact!

And very aggressive and combative...

Similarly all Labour are champagne socialis, all FF chancers, all FG arrogant etc. etc. you can generalise about anything and anyone.

The people I know have voted for all the major parties at one time or another.

Strumms wrote: »

Metaphorically they sure had a heavy hand in that scenario but at least it was metaphorically instead of the shinners/IRA actually driving people to their deaths...

As did the people made up FF/FG during the fight for their cause....

McMurphy

walshb wrote: »

These are the type of voters that SF seem to attract....

Bull in a China shop, sledgehammer to a nut..

No nuance, detail, tact!

And very aggressive and combative...

Tbf I think that question went over your head, because it's not the "type of SF voter's" that are questioning why SF aren't forming a govt.

I would guess it was aimed at the likes of leo and his fans who are having to be reminded on a near daily basis.


The.

Numbers.

Are.

Not.

There.

blanch152

McMurphy wrote: »

Tbf I think that question went over your head, because it's not the "type of SF voter's" that are questioning why SF aren't forming a govt.

I would guess it was aimed at the likes of leo and his fans who are having to be reminded on a near daily basis.


The.

Numbers.

Are.

Not.

There.

87 is more than 80.

The only reason the numbers are not there is because much more than FF or FG refuse to do business with Sinn Fein. I wonder why.

LeinsterDub

blanch152 wrote: »

the numbers are not there

I'm glad we can all finally agree

Jinglejangle69

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I'm glad we can all finally agree

Will someone inform Mary Lou please.

LeinsterDub

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Will someone inform Mary Lou please.

I don't have a direct line to her. Where as blanch has been harping on about this for a month