'Shock Poll' Sinn Fein now on 35%

dxhound2005

McMurphy wrote: »

We have something similar here.

It's called the Seanad.

The people love the Seanad.

LuckyLloyd

meeeeh wrote: »

Why? Just because SF are gaining it doesn't mean other parties have to go into government with them. There is a chance left wing parties will eventually manage to form the government eventually. Maybe not after this election but eventually but why the desire to include one of the parties they criticize into the government.

It's like some SF voters crave the acceptance of other two big parties.

If they’re not going to go into government with SF they need to go into government with each other. We need two from three to negotiate an equal partnership or else we go again.

As to why they should change their messaging: it clearly isn’t resonating with the electorate. But that’s up to them. If they want to talk about the past and not the issues of the here and now good luck. Don’t think it will play well in another election mind, particularly if FG are going back out to look for people to vote them into government after spending a couple of months insisting they want to be in opposition.

is_that_so

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The people love the Seanad.

They don't but they also didn't like what they were being sold, to replace it.

Mad_maxx

J_1980 wrote: »

It’s not just SF, it’s FFFG too. Irish electorate are largely liberal left leaning. Problem is the payday always comes in a recession. Just hope the next one is without a banking crisis (so no scapegoats). Everything will be on the chopping block

We love Big government, every demographic here does

FrancieBrady

is_that_so wrote: »

Senators are half a notch up from councillors and their opinions. It would be beyond stupid to do so at this moment. What Martin might do, in the near future, is map out a path to a successor.

Not sure you can handwave away Martin's abject failure for much longer.

is_that_so

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Not sure you can handwave away Martin's abject failure for much longer.

Who's handwaving at anything? It's a senator expressing an opinion.

RandomName2

Deleted User wrote: »

This thread is hilarious lads, keep up the worthy endeavour. SF clearly have a few of the regulars rattled, sooner the next election lands the better. Then we'll see if the poll numbers stack up.

At least they are euroskeptics likely to make the worst eu sycophants quail, but unlike some I'm aware that you can always go from the frying pan into the fire.

FrancieBrady

is_that_so wrote: »

Who's handwaving at anything?

You are, with phrases like this.

Senators are half a notch up from councillors and their opinions.

'Heaves' usually come about when a stalking horse emerges. A 'stalking horse' usually is somebody with less to lose than a higher ranked member.

dxhound2005

is_that_so wrote: »

Senators are half a notch up from councillors and their opinions. It would be beyond stupid to do so at this moment. What Martin might do, in the near future, is map out a path to a successor.

That analysis is bad news for our representation in the European Parliament. Matt Carthy is down to his fifth or sixth pick to replace him, and will be lucky if it is even a Councillor.

Shefwedfan

smurgen wrote: »

They would rather see the country wrecked than relinquish power to a third party.

It must be around the 15th time I have posted to you that I wnat SF to go into power so they will be found out.....


You seem to have some sort of block on this. I have seen loads of people who have said the same, stick them in, let them f**k it up and then we can have another election.


Otherwise, as I have posted plenty of times to you, we will be listening to you and other people going on about how great SF would be,.....


Do you understand this time? or will I have to post it another few times before it sinks in:P

Bishop of hope

RandomName2 wrote: »

At least they are euroskeptics likely to make the worst eu sycophants quail, but unlike some I'm aware that you can always go from the frying pan into the fire.

They're pro eu now, but probably the reason we will end up with border checkpoints eventually.
A means to an end changes sceptics sometimes.

Shefwedfan

dark crystal wrote: »

FFG have been banging this drum ad nauseum both throughout and after the election. The fact is, going by today's poll, it has only strengthened SF's support. Voters under 65 clearly don't care about that message as much as you would like them to.

What 'millenials' are aware of is being unable to buy a house, paying crippling fees for childcare, looking into a future of working for longer and looking into a rental abyss well into their 60's and above.

Do people not have qualms about a party who brought this country into a recession and yet it's leader completely refuses to acknowledge why over a quarter of a million citizens of this country voted for the alternative? Indeed refuses to acknowledge them at all.

There are a myriad of issues why people flocked to SF, the one issue you and FFG keep banging on about clearly isn't resonating with voters - maybe it's time to dial down that particular rhetoric and deal with the issues people do actually care about.

So explain to me what SF are going to do to fix the housing situation that millenials can suddenly buy a house?

is_that_so

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You are, with phrases like this.



'Heaves' usually come about when a stalking horse emerges. A 'stalking horse' usually is somebody with less to lose than a higher ranked member.

I'm happy to stand over what I've said about senators. So, a senator writes a letter and it's a heave. We've only had one attempted heave in the last 30 years and that was against Enda.

dxhound2005

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It must be around the 15th time I have posted to you that I wnat SF to go into power so they will be found out.....


You seem to have some sort of block on this. I have seen loads of people who have said the same, stick them in, let them f**k it up and then we can have another election.


Otherwise, as I have posted plenty of times to you, we will be listening to you and other people going on about how great SF would be,.....


Do you understand this time? or will I have to post it another few times before it sinks in:P

The anti FF FG vote is now 62%. What the people want is even more clear from the newspaper poll. SF on 35% on their own points to only one thing, a government for Change. SF will just have to go after the 27% properly, and it should be easy enough.

lawrencesummers

People don’t seem to be swallowing the tripe coming from FFG trying to make people be disgusted with the history of SF.

Maybe people are clever enough to see that FF’s history over the last few decades is one of corruption and FG’s history over the last decade is one of incompetence.

I guess the lesser of 3 evils is the party that’s associated with errors from longest ago.

Bring on another election and FFG have the most to lose.

RandomName2

Fred Cryton wrote: »

And the SF response is to always tell us to shut up about it....


No thanks, we'll keep reminding people over and over again about:


1) Current Provo Army Council overseeing SF
2) Their current members applauding Garda killers.



I know it's a sore point for you and you'd like us to shut up about it, but well tough.

The electorate have never had any morals, now, in the past, or the future. They care about how much money they have, and ranking a distant second is their public appearance.

If enough people are voting the same way as you you no longer have to be ashamed voting for the up-the-ras.

But it is mostly determined by the economy: in this case, mainly to do with housing. Sinn Fein doesn't really have any real strategy in relation to this, but people don't care as the strategy being employed by Fianna Fail in the past, or Fine Gael in the present, clearly has not been working very well.

The actual solution would be large scale development with integrated public transport. There is currently too much red tape for fast development. People living in already established residential communities will probably have to be seriously disrupted to accommodate public transport improvements.

Instead the plans are either generic '100000000 housessss!' or plain negative 'rent freezes or all!'. In order to compete with SF, FF and FG seem to be now parroting the 'rent freeze' line, despite the fact that the couldn't-manage-the-economy-of-six-counties-so-will-have-a-go-at-26 party doesn't seem to understand that it's an issue of supply and demand, and that the issue is the lack of landlords, not a monopoly by a single conglomerate.

lawrencesummers wrote: »

People don’t seem to be swallowing the tripe coming from FFG trying to make people be disgusted with the history of SF.

I wonder if tripe would be a good physical description of a body that has been badly beaten enough.

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Maybe people are clever enough to see that FF’s history over the last few decades is one of corruption and FG’s history over the last decade is one of incompetence.

I would personally describe them both as incompetent.

lawrencesummers wrote: »

I guess the lesser of 3 evils is the party that’s associated with errors from longest ago.

Longest ago? You mean last year?

I hope you don't think that Sinn Fein (not to be confused with Official Sinn Fein or Republican Sinn Fein) is the same party as either Sinn Fein of 1905 or Sinn Fein of 1918, or Sinn Fein of 1922, all of which are about as far removed from Sinn Fein as it is possible to be. Fianna Fail is far more closely connected to Sinn Fein of 1918, and basically entirely unconnected to Sinn Fein of 1905.

FrancieBrady

is_that_so wrote: »

I'm happy to stand over what I've said about senators. So, a senator writes a letter and it's a heave. We've only had one attempted heave in the last 30 years and that was against Enda.

What's all the anger about?

I merely posted a newsworthy development and you go all out handwaving it away.

Maybe the question should be, do YOU think he needs to go, to save FF from further decline.
Do you think he is a block to their popularity?

Because it seems to me they need to do something and fast. FG could decide, if they are going down that FF are going with them.

dxhound2005

is_that_so wrote: »

They don't but they also didn't like what they were being sold, to replace it.

There was no question about that in the referendum. It is just the same as other Upper Houses in bicameral parliaments. The elected Lower House has all the power, as it should have. The appointed / hereditary / part elected chambers are restricted to essentially and advisory role.

We could have another 13 reports into reform, and nothing will happen. Unless the mad choice is to have it universally elected, and with equal power to the Dail. A recipe for disaster.

is_that_so

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What's all the anger about?

I merely posted a newsworthy development and you go all out handwaving it away.

Maybe the question should be, do YOU think he needs to go, to save FF from further decline.
Do you think he is a block to their popularity?

Because it seems to me they need to do something and fast. FG could decide, if they are going down that FF are going with them.

Nah, no anger at work. I'm talking about logic. It makes no sense for that scenario to emerge in any form, not until this cycle is complete, either through a new election or some cobbled together 2-3 year deal. FF will stick with him for the foreseeable future.

Hamsterchops

Let's start with their history, what they stand for, and their ultimate aims.

I'm now in my 50s, so as I was growing up there was no Sinn Fein, just the IRA and the daily drip drip feed of bodies building up, mostly in the North, while simultaneously there was the drip drip feed of bank robberies & post office heists down here, with the odd disappearance thrown in for good measure, knee capping was another Provo invention that let us know as to who & what kind of animals we were dealing with. Nasty stuff alright, so nasty in fact that as the New Sinn Fein slowly emerged up North, the crimes carried on by Sinn Fein's alter ego (namely the PIRA), and with interchangable personell one never really knew who was pulling the strings in Sinn Fein Vs who was pulling the IRAs strings?
Maybe he same person? Maybe even the head of Sinn Fein Mr Gerry Adams?

With the Ballot box in one hand with a bomb in a rucksack and a machine slung around the shoulder, the Republicans had it any which way they wanted Ballot Box & Armalite.....
Untill the Good Friday Agreement came along and spoiled their blood stained party, whereby going forward they were only permitted to follow exclusively peaceful means....

...and here's my point, all those atrocities, all those bombs, all those shootings are (were) condemned by most people in this state as Terrorism, and as such (Sinn Fein by association) were kept at arms length with the proverbial 'dirty stick' because you see, Sinn Fein would always fail to condemn each & every atrocity, and even now in 2020, Sinn Fein will legitimise the "Armed Struggle" as something to be proud of, something to celebrate "Up the RA" followed by Tiocfaidh ár lá with the ultimate aim of taking over this State & demanding a "United Ireland" ASAP irrespective of the consequences.

I haven't even mentioned the SF economic shortcomings which I can debate another time, but for now, with all of the above taken on board,

WHY WOULD YOU VOTE SINN FEIN?

suicide_circus

Hamsterchops wrote: »

WHY WOULD YOU VOTE SINN FEIN?

because they're not FFG. and they promise to make our problems go away.

FrancieBrady

is_that_so wrote: »

Nah, no anger at work. I'm talking about logic. It makes no sense for that scenario to emerge in any form, not until this cycle is complete, either through a new election or some cobbled together 2-3 year deal. FF will stick with him for the foreseeable future.

'Logic' dictated that their strategy was wrong when the votes were counted or even before as the polls came out.

dxhound2005

I never heard of Swanick before, but I see he was in the news for not being a very good Senator. He is not going to stand in the upcoming election.

His intervention on MM might point to him seeking to become a media figure in future. Or he might indeed just want to spend more time with his family.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/fianna-f%C3%A1il-senator-at-centre-of-expenses-controversy-will-not-seek-re-election-1.4154474

Bishop of hope

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Let's start with their history, what they stand for, and their ultimate aims.

I'm now in my 50s, so as I was growing up there was no Sinn Fein, just the IRA and the daily drop drip feed of bodies building up, mostly in the North while simultaneously there was the drip drip feed of bank robberies & post office heists down here, with the odd disappearance thrown in for food measure, knee capping was another Provo invention that kept us as to who & what we were dealing in the Republican side. Nasty stuff, so nasty in fact that as the New Sinn Fein emerged up North the crimes carried on in the form of Sinn Fein's alter ego (namely the PIRA),, with interchangable personell one never really knew who was pulling the strings in Sinn Fein, and who was pulling the IRAs strings? Maybe he same person? Maybe even the head of Sinn Fein Mr Gerry Adams?

With the Ballot box in one hand with a bomb in a rucksack & a machine sling around a shoulder, the Republicans had it any which way they wanted.....Untill the Good Friday Agreement came along and spoiled their blood stained party whereby going forward they were only permitted to follow exclusively peaceful means.

...and here's my point, all this atrocities, all those bombs, all those shootings are (were) condemned by most people in this state as Terrorism, and as such Sinn Fein by association were kept at arms length with the proverbial 'dirty stick' because you see, Sinn Fein would always fail to condemn each & every atrocity, and even now in the current climate Sinn Fein will legitimise the "Armed Struggle" as something to be proud of, something to celebrate "Up the RA" followed by Tiocfaidh ár lá with the ultimate aim of taking over this State & demanding a "United Ireland" ASAP!

I haven't even mentioned the SF economic shortcomings which I can debate another time, but for now... with all of the above takin on board,

WHY WOULD YOU VOTE SINN FEIN?

If you were in your early hundreds you could be talking of the foundation of the state.

RandomName2

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Let's start with their history, what they stand for, and their ultimate aims.

I'm now in my 50s, so as I was growing up there was no Sinn Fein, just the IRA and the daily drop drip feed of bodies building up, mostly in the North while simultaneously there was the drip drip feed of bank robberies & post office heists down here, with the odd disappearance thrown in for food measure, knee capping was another Provo invention that kept us as to who & what we were dealing in the Republican side. Nasty stuff, so nasty in fact that as the New Sinn Fein emerged up North the crimes carried on in the form of Sinn Fein's alter ego (namely the PIRA),, with interchangable personell one never really knew who was pulling the strings in Sinn Fein, and who was pulling the IRAs strings? Maybe he same person? Maybe even the head of Sinn Fein Mr Gerry Adams?

With the Ballot box in one hand with a bomb in a rucksack & a machine sling around a shoulder, the Republicans had it any which way they wanted.....Untill the Good Friday Agreement came along and spoiled their blood stained party whereby going forward they were only permitted to follow exclusively peaceful means.

...and here's my point, all this atrocities, all those bombs, all those shootings are (were) condemned by most people in this state as Terrorism, and as such Sinn Fein by association were kept at arms length with the proverbial 'dirty stick' because you see, Sinn Fein would always fail to condemn each & every atrocity, and even now in the current climate Sinn Fein will legitimise the "Armed Struggle" as something to be proud of, something to celebrate "Up the RA" followed by Tiocfaidh ár lá with the ultimate aim of taking over this State & demanding a "United Ireland" ASAP!

I haven't even mentioned the SF economic shortcomings which I can debate another time, but for now... with all of the above takin on board,

WHY WOULD YOU VOTE SINN FEIN?

Chaaaaaaaaaaange

All joking aside, nobody cares. Look at this thread. People openly laugh about the IRA connections.

Hamsterchops

Bishop of hope wrote: »

If you were in your early hundreds you could be talking of the foundation of the state.

Wow that's deep.

Now, armed with the knowledge that I've just furnished you with, can you explain why you would support & vote for Sinn Fein in 2020.

BluePlanet

The best thing about the 2020 general election is that it's given FFFG big black eyes and perma-sourpusses etched on their faces.
And THEN we get their supporters practically foaming at the mouth in full-on panic online.

Plumbthedepths

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Wow that's deep.

Now, armed with the knowledge that I've just furnished you with, can you explain why you would support & vote for Sinn Fein in 2020.

No one owes you an explanation as to why they voted in a certain way.
The poll in today's Times must really sicken you. Go for a walk you'll feel better.

dxhound2005

BluePlanet wrote: »

The best thing about the 2020 general election is that it's given FFFG big black eyes and perma-sourpusses etched on their faces.
And THEN we get their supporters practically foaming at the mouth in full-on panic online.

The worst thing is that it brought out the conspiracy theorist, convinced that everyone is against SF. That and their fanatical supporters spouting nonsense on the internet.

BluePlanet

BluePlanet wrote: »

The best thing about the 2020 general election is that it's given FFFG big black eyes and perma-sourpusses etched on their faces.
And THEN we get their supporters practically foaming at the mouth in full-on panic online.

But the atrocities a generation ago, let's be a slave to the past and not move on, etc. How dare you exercise your democratic right and vote differently than me. It's a disgrace Joe.