'Shock Poll' Sinn Fein now on 35%

McMurphy

RandomName2 wrote: »

Damn, Sinn Fein fanboy, I should learn from you.

Somewhere in your rambling you say there should be a change from either FF or FG being in government.

However you readily admit that there cannot be a government without FF or FG.

You seem a bit addled. Maybe you need some fresh air. Or perhaps the cable from Sinn Fein got garbled and you mistyped.

Has that ever been disputed?

Now once again repeat after me, the numbers are not there for Sinn Fein to enter a govt that does not feature either FF or FG or both, meaning FFG will have to coalesce or call another election.

Has anyone been saying otherwise?

RandomName2

McMurphy wrote: »

Has that ever been disputed?

Now once again repeat after me, the numbers are not there for Sinn Fein to enter a govt that does not feature either FF or FG or both, meaning FFG will have to coalesce or call another election.

Has anyone been saying otherwise?

I will repeat you

McMurphy wrote: »

So to recap, a large swathe of people out there voted for a change to a FFG govt, FFG are certainly doing themselves no favours by refusing to recognise that wish.

So large numbers of people don't want either FF or FG in government, and they will be punished for failure to recognize that, but not enough people didn't want FF or FG in government, therefore at least one of them will have to be in government.

So repeat after me, 43% of people voted for FF and FG, 24% of people voted for SF.

FrancieBrady

RandomName2 wrote: »

I will repeat you



So large numbers of people don't want either FF or FG in government, and they will be punished for failure to recognize that, but not enough people didn't want FF or FG in government, therefore at least one of them will have to be in government.

So repeat after me, 43% of people voted for FF and FG, 24% of people voted for SF.

Here read this slowly:

The preference of a large number of people is not to have either in government but pragmatically that is not possible. So the alternative is to have one of them in government with a left party to temper their excesses and bad governance.

It's not that hard if you get the SF tropes renting space in your head out.

STB.

McMurphy wrote: »

TBF you did make a statement in which you put an emphasis on "NOBODY" in regards wanted to talk to SF.

If you meant FFG won't talk to them, you probably would have been better correcting yourself and moved on. .

McMurphy. What I actually said was " There are only a few parties who can form a government together. NOBODY wants to go in with SF."

There are only 2 parties that can form a government. FF and FG. SF do not have the numbers otherwise. This is the only context worth discussing and the only meaningful talks that can take place around forming a government.

And here we are.

Maewyn Succat

Sinn Fein have no real interest in forming a government. Being in opposition would suit them better and they know it. With Mary Lou it's like having someone following you around all day every day saying "You're doing that wrong " regardless of what you're doing providing no constructive input and with no real idea of how to do it any better.

RandomName2

STB. wrote: »

McMurphy. What I actually said was " There are only a few parties who can form a government together. NOBODY wants to go in with SF."

There are only 2 parties that can form a government. FF and FG. SF do not have the numbers otherwise. This is the only context worth discussing and the only meaningful talks that can take place around forming a government.

And here we are.

PBP sounded initially as if they might. They seem to have got cold feet though, claiming that it's merely a numbers issue.

Muahahaha

McMurphy wrote: »

Hehehe. :pac:


FG spent 15 X more than them on FB ads.

FINE GAEL IS significantly outspending its rivals in the general election campaign when it comes to advertising on Facebook

15 times as much :eek: And theres blanch saying SF spent an "awful lot of money" on social media ads and asking who is funding it. But it turns out FG spent 15 times as much as SF on social media ads during the election. Maybe we need a CAB investigation into FG to find the source of the shadowy funding behind this. I presume blanch will be full square behind that given that 15 times as much is certainly "an awful lot of money".

STB.

RandomName2 wrote: »

PBP sounded initially as if they might. They seem to have got cold feet though, claiming that it's merely a numbers issue.

They never had the numbers. Eoin O Broin admitted as much very early on, knowing that many of the independents were FF/FG in disguise. The others knew this and would never had agreed to such a government with many moving pieces.

pjohnson

RandomName2 wrote: »

Sinn Fein fanboys use ad hominem attacks all the time, and are somehow surprised when the same can be done to them.

I've never put much stock in attacking people because of the way they look. Trump has bad hair and small hands. Who cares? It's his principles that smell of sh*t. Mary Lou is no poster child for the revolution, but to be honest I find her apology for terrorism more off-putting than her physical appearance .

If I look at a reply by any of the Sinn Fein fanboys I bet I can easily find them say that any dissenting voice is rambling, ranting, obsessed, or a mouthpiece of FFFG (or should that be FFFGGP now that the Greens are being described as 'Fine Gael but on bikes').

Don't forget to say 'old-boys' somewhere about FF or FG. Bonus points if you can say 'mansplain' or something else painfully cringeworthy.

Dry your eyes mate didnt mean you to get so badly triggered.


Keep screaming at the sky.

FrancieBrady

Muahahaha wrote: »

15 times as much :eek: And theres blanch saying SF spent an "awful lot of money" on social media ads and asking who is funding it. But it turns out FG spent 15 times as much as SF on social media ads during the election. Maybe we need a CAB investigation into FG to find the source of the shadowy funding behind this. I presume blanch will be full square behind that given that 15 times as much is certainly "an awful lot of money".

Since Leo said it, all day long on Twitter people are posting details of FG financial dubiousness in the past, stuff I didn't know.
We can chalk it down as another well aimed shot to the foot by Leo. Coveney or Noonan won't be thanking him anyhow.

RandomName2

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Here read this slowly:

The preference of a large number of people is not to have either in government but pragmatically that is not possible. So the alternative is to have one of them in government with a left party to temper their excesses and bad governance.

It's not that hard if you get the SF tropes renting space in your head out.

In your little rant (I have to admit Sinn Fein fanboys, casually insulting your opponent is cathartic, I see why you all do it so often) this is something that has often happened. No party has had an absolute majority since the 80s. If you were being pragmatic you would vote for SD, Greens, or Labour, all of whom FF and FG would be happy to go into power with.

It's also obvious that, if you cleared the Sinn Fein megaphone renting space in your head, out, that the Sinn Fein fanboys don't want FF or FG in government with a left wing party other than Sinn Fein. I mean, they wouldn't be very good fanboys if that wasn't their position.

pjohnson wrote: »

Dry your eyes mate didnt mean you to get so badly triggered.


Keep screaming at the sky.

Now this is low effort trash. At least make an effort.

Make an insult. Then a point. Then finish off with an insult. Otherwise you will look like some sycophantic buffoon trying to score easy points. See, like that.

McMurphy

RandomName2 wrote: »

I will repeat you



So large numbers of people don't want either FF or FG in government, and they will be punished for failure to recognize that, but not enough people didn't want FF or FG in government, therefore at least one of them will have to be in government.

So repeat after me, 43% of people voted for FF and FG, 24% of people voted for SF.

Huh. Just realized that SF got just as many seats as Labour got in 2011. I don't remember Labour faffing around pretending to explore putting together a 'government of the left' after that election.

Oh dear, someone might need to reread what was posted and how it differs as to what you wish was posted.

It's really not difficult to understand but you seem to make it so.

People voted for a change from the FF/FG govt they got since 16.

A reversal of roles where FF are the daddy and FG the mammy isn't change.

This is where it gets easier to follow the flow of conversation.

A FF/SF/SD(or Greens) would be a change.
A FG/SF/SD(or Greens) would similary be a change.
A SF/SD/Green/PBP/LAB/load of independents would be a change (if shaky as fook)

basically any govt consisting of anyone EXCEPT FG AND FF TOGETHER in some form of C&S arrangement etc.

pjohnson

RandomName2 wrote: »

In your little rant (I have to admit Sinn Fein fanboys, casually insulting your opponent is cathartic, I see why you all do it so often) this is something that has often happened. No party has had an absolute majority since the 80s. If you were being pragmatic you would vote for SD, Greens, or Labour, all of whom FF and FG would be happy to go into power with.

It's also obvious that, if you cleared the Sinn Fein megaphone renting space in your head, out, that the Sinn Fein fanboys don't want FF or FG in government with a left wing party other than Sinn Fein. I mean, they wouldn't be very good fanboys if that wasn't their position.



Now this is low effort trash. At least make an effort.

Make an insult. Then a point. Then finish off with an insult. Otherwise you will look like some sycophantic buffoon trying to score easy points. See, like that.

FrancieBrady

RandomName2 wrote: »

In your little rant (I have to admit Sinn Fein fanboys, casually insulting your opponent is cathartic, I see why you all do it so often) this is something that has often happened. No party has had an absolute majority since the 80s. If you were being pragmatic you would vote for SD, Greens, or Labour, all of whom FF and FG would be happy to go into power with.

It's also obvious that, if you cleared the Sinn Fein megaphone renting space in your head, out, that the Sinn Fein fanboys don't want FF or FG in government with a left wing party other than Sinn Fein. I mean, they wouldn't be very good fanboys if that wasn't their position.

Oh go away, you've been doing nothing but throwing brickbats since you joined the thread. Having a hissy fit because you get some blowback just makes you look silly.

Absolutely...as I voted for SF then I would prefer them to be in government. What the hell is wrong with that?

pjohnson

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Oh go away, you've been doing nothing but throwing brickbats since you joined the thread. Having a hissy fit because you get some blowback just makes you look silly.

Absolutely...as I voted for SF then I would prefer them to be in government. What the hell is wrong with that?

Mary Lou isnt attractive enough for random so you shouldn't vote for her.

STB.

McMurphy wrote: »

People voted for a change from the FF/FG govt they got since 16.

Ah "change", that golden word that keeps popping up.

I don't know if its deliberate or what, but 75% of the electorate did not buy into SF's flavour of change.

The two centre right parties hold 46% of the electorates vote. Plus ca change, eh.

McMurphy

STB. wrote: »

Ah "change", that golden word that keeps popping up.


I don't know if its deliberate or what, but 75% of the electorate did not buy into SF's flavour of change.



The two centre right parties hold 46% of the electorates vote. Plus ca change.

Is anyone disputing that?

Hence the predicament we find ourselves in, they'll either have to stop the play fighting and actually coalesce together or call another election if they won't.

Neither scenario will be tempting to them though.

Let me know what part of that isn't sinking in and I'll run through it with you.

Suckit

STB. wrote: »

Ah "change", that golden word that keeps popping up.

I don't know if its deliberate or what, but 75% of the electorate did not buy into SF's flavour of change.

The two centre right parties hold 46% of the electorates vote. Plus ca change, eh.

No matter what way you try to paint it. A massive portion of the electorate voted for SF or change. Take that however you wish, but those types of numbers are not normal.

FG can keep telling themselves it's not their fault etc.. But the calls for Leo's head are growing. So much so I would be willing to bet on him being gone before summer. Unless they get a government up and running before May (and May is being generous).

RandomName2

McMurphy wrote: »

Oh dear, someone might need to reread what was posted and how it differs as to what you wish was posted.

It's really not difficult to understand but you seem to make it so.

Now pjohnson and FrankieBrady, take note, this ^ is how it's done. You insult the person's intelligence, you say that what they wrote is dog sh*t, and you patronize them. After that you make your point. If you can't take the heat you shouldn't have turned up the termostat in the first place.

McMurphy wrote: »

People voted for a change from the FF/FG govt they got since 16.

Oh it's a shame that you don't understand that FF and FG weren't in government together. What existed was a FG minority government. There were no FF ministers, no FF junior ministers, no FF portfolios, no FF Taoiseach, no FF Taniste. The discussions in relation to SF currently have largely focused on whether SF could lead a minority government, seeing that they would be unable to make the numbers to form a majority. Given that SF currently has as many seats as Labour did in 2011 that is a bit nonsensical.

The difference from before is that FF didn't get the typical opposition bounce, but this is more a reflection of what happened for the two previous elections. FF being in third place never happened before 2011, and people have been loath to forgive their feckless economic policies. So since then they've been hovering around the low 20% mark. So they've climbed from 3rd position into 2nd (or 1st in terms of seats), but have a lot of damage to still repair.

FG getting low/ mid 20% is actually standard for them. They have never been in government without a coalition. They have always needed a big coalition partner, if not multiple coalition partners. Their traditional coalition partner (Labour) is still too battered from the affects of austerity to be big enough to count.

The Sinn Fein protest vote was clearly no more pragmatic than the vote for Sean Casey in the presidential election. If people were being pragmatic they would have voted Green or SD. However the small left wing parties found it difficult to cling on, and most lost votes. The protest vote went to Sinn Fein.

Do people want a FG-FF government? Probably not. Do people want a SF government? Probably not. Do people want a SF coalition with either FF or FG? Probably not. It is the definition of a hung parliament.

dxhound2005

Suckit wrote: »

No matter what way you try to paint it. A massive portion of the electorate voted for SF or change. Take that however you wish, but those types of numbers are not normal.

FG can keep telling themselves it's not their fault etc.. But the calls for Leo's head are growing. So much so I would be willing to bet on him being gone before summer. Unless they get a government up and running before May (and May is being generous).

That would be much the same as in 2016. SF, FF and FG along with the Greens and others can take as long as they want. What is going to happen to any of them if they don't get an agreement until June or July?

STB.

McMurphy wrote: »

Is anyone disputing that?

Hence the predicament we find ourselves in, they'll either have to stop the play fighting and actually coalesce together or call another election if they won't.

Neither scenario will be tempting to them though.

Let me know what part of that isn't sinking in and I'll run through it with you.

It was the only game in town. I said as much 3 few weeks ago when you were trying to juggle the numbers.

FF/FG just had to sell it to their members. Right now its just a squable over positions and whether it will be by end of March or early April.

pjohnson

RandomName2 wrote: »

Now pjohnson and FrankieBrady, take note, this ^ is how it's done. You insult the person's intelligence, you say that what they wrote is dog sh*t, and you patronize them. After that you make your point. If you can't take the heat you shouldn't have turned up the termostat in the first place.



Oh it's a shame that you don't understand that FF and FG weren't in government together. What existed was a FG minority government. There were no FF ministers, no FF junior ministers, no FF portfolios, no FF Taoiseach, no FF Taniste. The discussions in relation to SF currently have largely focused on whether SF could lead a minority government, seeing that they would be unable to make the numbers to form a majority. Given that SF currently has as many seats as Labour did in 2011 that is a bit nonsensical.

The difference from before is that FF didn't get the typical opposition bounce, but this is more a reflection of what happened for the two previous elections. FF being in third place never happened before 2011, and people have been loath to forgive their feckless economic policies. So since then they've been hovering around the low 20% mark. So they've climbed from 3rd position into 2nd (or 1st in terms of seats), but have a lot of damage to still repair.

FG getting low/ mid 20% is actually standard for them. They have never been in government without a coalition. They have always needed a big coalition partner, if not multiple coalition partners. Their traditional coalition partner (Labour) is still too battered from the affects of austerity to be big enough to count.

The Sinn Fein protest vote was clearly no more pragmatic than the vote for Sean Casey in the presidential election. If people were being pragmatic they would have voted Green or SD. However the small left wing parties found it difficult to cling on, and most lost votes. The protest vote went to Sinn Fein.

Do people want a FG-FF government? Probably not. Do people want a SF government? Probably not. Do people want a SF coalition with either FF or FG? Probably not. It is the definition of a hung parliament.

I'm quite happy as I am cheers kid.

Keep on crying.

Suckit

dxhound2005 wrote: »

That would be much the same as in 2016. SF, FF and FG along with the Greens and others can take as long as they want. What is going to happen to any of them if they don't get an agreement until June or July?

That was my point. I can see Leo stepping down as leader. Maybe being forced down.

Growing amount of FG voters believe he is destroying the party.

dxhound2005

Suckit wrote: »

That was my point. I can see Leo stepping down as leader. Maybe being forced down.

Growing amount of FG voters believe he is destroying the party.

I wouldn't know. Are you an insider?

Jinglejangle69

Ah man,

SF supporters STILLLLLLLLLLLL crying FG won't form a government after years of telling us they are the devil reincarnated!!

What do SF supporters actually want right now?

JohnnyFlash

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Ah man,

SF supporters STILLLLLLLLLLLL crying FG won't form a government after years of telling us they are the devil reincarnated!!

What do SF supporters actually want right now?

FF and FG to go into power with the hope that one or both get a battering at the next election.

SF to be the largest party, and usher in a golden era of populist nationalism based on fantasy economics. Show the free state bastards what’s what.

STB.

Suckit wrote: »

No matter what way you try to paint it. A massive portion of the electorate voted for SF or change. Take that however you wish, but those types of numbers are not normal.

FG can keep telling themselves it's not their fault etc.. But the calls for Leo's head are growing. So much so I would be willing to bet on him being gone before summer. Unless they get a government up and running before May (and May is being generous).

Getting elected from buzzwords, and having the ability to have an active role in government are vastly different things. 25% is a minority. 75% is a majority. 75% did not buy into just a buzzword.

The Greens had a 500% increase in returned seats in the election. SF hoovered up the missing Labour Party's vote, the massive void that electorate struggled to fill since post 2011.

And just incase you think I have any political allegiance, I'd put them all on an unmanned boat and let it off to sea. The vast majority are self serving hustlers.

McMurphy

Muahahaha wrote: »

15 times as much :eek: And theres blanch saying SF spent an "awful lot of money" on social media ads and asking who is funding it. But it turns out FG spent 15 times as much as SF on social media ads during the election. Maybe we need a CAB investigation into FG to find the source of the shadowy funding behind this. I presume blanch will be full square behind that given that 15 times as much is certainly "an awful lot of money".

something inside me is thinking blanch wont be very keen to revisit the subject anytime soon.

RandomName2

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Oh go away, you've been doing nothing but throwing brickbats since you joined the thread. Having a hissy fit because you get some blowback just makes you look silly.

Just learned the work brickbat. Maybe I really am as slow as you claim?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Absolutely...as I voted for SF then I would prefer them to be in government. What the hell is wrong with that?

Other than my ideological opinion in relation to SF, nothing at all. However the group-think is strong with the Sinn Fein fanboys. Not a critical word of their beloved party will be stomached. Instead it will be attributed to FFG acolytes. This is hilariously

OUT OF TOUCH (as pjohnson would say)

when it comes to someone like me.

It is totally legitimate for someone to support FF or FG. They'd get shouted down here or elsewhere online. Because I'm clearly not a fan of FF or FG the Sinn Fein fanboys have to come out with weak shi*e saying that a point I make is rambling, or (sigh) crying at the sky, or is a hissy fit. I've heard some more dramatic opponents of Sinn Fein claim that Sinn Fein propaganda is 'worthy of Goebbels'. It clearly, clearly ain't.

Jinglejangle69

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

FF and FG to go into power with the hope that one or both get a battering at the next election.

SF to be the largest party, and usher in a golden era of populist nationalism based on fantasy economics. Show the free state bastards what’s what.

And SF accuse the 2 parties of playing games.

Everyone knows what SF are playing at yet were told they're still trying to form a left wing government.

Absolute lies and spoofing.

But its OK if they play games but not if FG do the same.