'Shock Poll' Sinn Fein now on 35%

Bishop of hope

Idbatterim wrote: »

“it should be geared towards providing housing for the end user. It's as simple as that. The entire base of the current housing system is both immoral and unworkable as far as I and many other left wing voters are concerned. The model of the 1930s replaced vast swathes of privately rented slums with large swathes of publicly rented flats and houses, and that's exactly what we need to do again.”

Brilliant post. I’d probably be described as right wing. But the housing situation is a vulgar disgrace, you know what that Doesn’t even begin to do it justice. No non homewowner here should ever forget what Fg have done. They will never have my vote again. All the dell boys and the other extreme of vulture funds looking for their pound of flesh on a most basic human need, it’s grotesque and who facilitated them ? The Irish government , voted by the people , to represent the people ! Ff or fg , ffg , I don’t give a fcuk. If they are in this term and don’t do what their body is telling them not to do , they are looking at potential terminal wipeout!

Selling out your own generation varadkar you despicable rat !

I think you overstate the importance of Leo .
The shortage of housing, public housing I mean goes back to the boom, to FF to be precise.
Not because of the bust even, but because of the lack of investment in it during the boom.
We had nearly 10 years of no investment in it prior to FG coming in to power.
When they did come in they certainly had no money for it during their first five years, and then in 2016 they started off with enda in the hot seat.
Leo I agree was a pretty ineffictual Taoiseach, but I do think that perhaps the start of a a housing programme had been achieved towards the end of the last term.
Not enough I know for to mean they could claim any benefit from it, but hopefully enough to mean the next Govt can improve the situation.

Seathrun66

RandomName2 wrote: »

That's 24.5% not 25%. Your false statistics have no sway here.
Inset something about rambling nonsense.

There's two pages of neither you nor STB. making any real points.

The substantive point is that SF beat FG and FF in the popular vote.
FF and FG combined are about twice the size of SF (either in seats or vote, take your pick).

SF needs either FF or FG if they want to form a government.

None of the other parties really count in terms of either numbers or popularity.

The only serious government formation discussions so far have been between FF and FG, everything else is just noise.

Everybody already knows this already anyway. The attempts at point scoring is tiresome.

Agreed on most of those points.

And your preference for a coalition? And the same question to STB.

Mine, as before, is FF/SF/Greens/SD with MM as Taoiseach, O'Bruin in Housing, Shortall for Health, Ryan for Environment and other FF/SF in senior positions. Won't happen as MM has boxed himself into a corner. A pity as it could have enforced real change.

A grand coalition will be punished severely at the next election.

RandomName2

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Agreed on most of those points.

And your preference for a coalition? And the same question to STB.

My coalition preferences are determined by two things. First I want whoever gets into office to do a good job. This realistically really means FF and or FG pick up their act. It also really means a stable government.

Second I don't want a SF government, now, or at any forseeable time in the future. That might change if the party changes, but it has stuck to its guns (really no pun intended) since the early 90s, so I don't see that as being likely.

My preference would be for GP, Labour, SD, or PBP (one or all) to grow, or return, to being significant parties. I think that at least three of these are going to be eliminated in the coming years however, regardless of the government that is currently formed.

So what coalition preferences does that present to me? None, technically speaking. Being pragmatic what are the options? A FF-FG-Green-Independent alliance. Would it be stable? Unlikely. Would they put aside grievances to get the country properly running? Again, unlikely. Would it kill off Sinn Fein popularity? Highly unlikely. Would it help the smaller parties? Again, highly unlikely.

Alternatively we could have another election, the results of may give FF and FG more reason to 'let SF at it'. Both become opposition parties but become more identified with each other as a result. The small parties prop up an unstable SF government that hobbles along for a while. SF lose popularity and FF and FG gain, but by this stage the two party system has become a FF-FG on one side of the house, and SF on the other side guaranteeing SF a place in government in the future .

Alternatively there's a small hope that SF lose vast volumes of support as they did in the last elections, and that all the other parties can gain at their expense.

Edit: Of course Sinn Fein, if they get into power, would aim to get a united Ireland as fast as possible. If that happens they become like Fianna Fail of the 1930s, in a fairly unassailable position for generations to come.

Seathrun66

RandomName2 wrote: »

My coalition preferences are determined by two things. First I want whoever gets into office to do a good job. This realistically really means FF and or FG pick up their act. It also really means a stable government.

Second I don't want a SF government, now, or at any forseeable time in the future. That might change if the party changes, but it has stuck to its guns (really no pun intended) since the early 90s, so I don't see that as being likely.

My preference would be for GP, Labour, SD, or PBP (one or all) to grow, or return, to being significant parties. I think that at least three of these are going to be eliminated in the coming years however, regardless of the government that is currently formed.

So what coalition preferences does that present to me? None, technically speaking. Being pragmatic what are the options? A FF-FG-Green-Independent alliance. Would it be stable? Unlikely. Would they put aside grievances to get the country properly running? Again, unlikely. Would it kill off Sinn Fein popularity? Highly unlikely. Would it help the smaller parties? Again, highly unlikely.

Alternatively we could have another election, the results of may give FF and FG more reason to 'let SF at it'. Both become opposition parties but become more identified with each other as a result. The small parties prop up an unstable SF government that hobbles along for a while. SF lose popularity and FF and FG gain, but by this stage the two party system has become a FF-FG on one side of the house, and SF on the other side guaranteeing SF a place in government in the future .

Alternatively there's a small hope that SF lose vast volumes of support as they did in the last elections, and that all the other parties can gain at their expense.

Edit: Of course Sinn Fein, if they get into power, would aim to get a united Ireland as fast as possible. If that happens they become like Fianna Fail of the 1930s, in a fairly unassailable position for generations to come.

SF to me are a mixed bag, some of the best politicians in the country alongside some of the worst. I'd welcome them into government though, alongside the others you mentioned. SF were my fifth of six preferences in Galway West alongside the other four you mentioned and a left independent Catherine Connolly.

I agree re the likely end of some of those parties. The Greens will surely thrive (as they will in most of Europe) unless they end up in a hugely unpopular coalition. The SDs and Labour must merge to ensure their survival and Solidarity/PBP are unlikely to have sufficient different policies of note to expand their voter base. The left independents could also get squeezed by SF.

If there's another election this year then SF will greatly increase their Dail representation. This will likely mean a lowering of the calibre of their individual TDs but they'll also be in power alongside the other mentioned parties. This left alliance could bring the best, or worst, out of each other. I, personally, believe it's time for that government if FF/FG refuse to talk to a part with. quarter of the first preference votes. And many other second or other preference votes. It's a slap in the face to much of the electorate.

hatrickpatrick

RandomName2 wrote: »

Interesting reply!

But surely the high rental prices are mainly due to demand outpacing supply?

Also why did some areas fall into complete anarchy and some public housing thrive? Was it an issue of volume? I find it hard to believe that it was due to lax criminal laws.

Why have FG pursued this policy? Do they not believe the public exchequer can adequately foot the bill of construction (that would seem odd if the land was originally public - the cost of land would presumably be the main expense in general).

Just to reiterate that I'm not ignoring this, I just haven't had time this week to sit down and get my teeth into writing a proper reply! Over the weekend for sure.

Floppybits

Seathrun66 wrote: »

SF to me are a mixed bag, some of the best politicians in the country alongside some of the worst.

Just to point out FF are not exactly overflowing with talent either.

I don't really care who gets into government what i do care is that who ever is in there tackles the issues that were raised in the election. This next government is going to be under severe pressure from day 1, whoever is in opposition is going to be after them from the get go, there will be no honeymoon period. I think that this is only going to be good for the country, FF and FG are in the last chance saloon and if they continue with more of the same they will be decimated in the next election. I think FG know this and this is why they are reluctant to go into government.

Seathrun66

Floppybits wrote: »

Just to point out FF are not exactly overflowing with talent either.

I don't really care who gets into government what i do care is that who ever is in there tackles the issues that were raised in the election. This next government is going to be under severe pressure from day 1, whoever is in opposition is going to be after them from the get go, there will be no honeymoon period. I think that this is only going to be good for the country, FF and FG are in the last chance saloon and if they continue with more of the same they will be decimated in the next election. I think FG know this and this is why they are reluctant to go into government.

I see next to no talent in FF. MM has some good qualities and a couple of others but they're a paltry bunch. FG better, but not by much. SF has 3/4 talents and a smattering in the other parties.

An enormous pity we couldn't have a cabinet on a wartime footing (Covid-19, Brexit, housing, health, impending trade wars, refugee crisis, etc, etc) with the best of all talents. Alas too many egos, too little pragmatism.

Floppybits

Seathrun66 wrote: »

I see next to no talent in FF. MM has some good qualities and a couple of others but they're a paltry bunch. FG better, but not by much. SF has 3/4 talents and a smattering in the other parties.

An enormous pity we couldn't have a cabinet on a wartime footing (Covid-19, Brexit, housing, health, impending trade wars, refugee crisis, etc, etc) with the best of all talents. Alas too many egos, too little pragmatism.

I was trying to be kind to FF. Like you I see next to no talent there, not one person that was in the last Dail impressed me. I see no good qualities in MM, this guy was known as the minister for reports when he was a minister. He wouldn't be near the leadership of FF only for the all retirees that happened, I see him as more of an Enda type person, basically hung around long enough to fall into the position.

This is also the problem that the electorate have as well in that they don't see MM as leadership material, he is too wishy washy.

By right we should have a national government or at least an all party task force to deal with this Covid-19, I don't understand why FG are against this. This task force should not be interfering with the medical side of things as that should be left to the HSE but they should be agreeing as to the plan that needs to be put in place and executed in terms of communication with the public and also what actions need to be taken such as St Patricks Day celebration, etc. They had all party agreement on Brexit and it worked out, they need to do the same here.

Jinglejangle69

Whoever gets into government now is screwed.

Recession on the way.

Idbatterim

the place is "booming" and with the implications now of the virus, health black hole, and the extra E430,000,000 they have allocated to it. what needs to be spent on housing, to help workers afford it. FFG if they go in together , are going to be obliterated next election. If people are out of patience now, give it another 2/3 years with a worsening situation

Bishop of hope

Idbatterim wrote: »

the place is "booming" and with the implications now of the virus, health black hole, and the extra E430,000,000 they have allocated to it. what needs to be spent on housing, to help workers afford it. FFG if they go in together , are going to be obliterated next election. If people are out of patience now, give it another 2/3 years with a worsening situation

"Hi ho silver" comes to mind.
But, we should build houses to make sure people don't run out of patience and wait till they're built and then tackle the virus?
The concern for me is people's health firstly.
But questions need to be asked surely where this money suddenly came from with the state of the health service already, before the virus.

Larbre34

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Whoever gets into government now is screwed.

Recession on the way.

Theres always a bigger shark for the next crowd.

10 weeks ago the term Covid-19 did not exist.

Bobeagleburger

Housing isn't priority anymore. This virus and dealing with the fallout from that is.

Larbre34

6 wrote: »

Housing isn't priority anymore. This virus and dealing with the fallout from that is.

Well with projected deaths of 90,000, housing supply and demand may reach quite a sudden equilibrium.

Funny how things have a way of working out.