Dublin GAA Discussion Thread: Mod Note - No 'Dublin Dominance' chat allowed!

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118551897#Comment_118551897

We saw flashes of it during the second half. Quick long ball into the forward line that stretched Armagh and they just gave away handy frees to stop us getting near the goal.

Defence was more of what we've seen over the past year or two. Putting one too many bodies into the attack and leaving one on one matches with little pressure on the ball coming in. The half back line is a big problem.

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118551987#Comment_118551987

Burns had the freedom of the park, constantly driving forward from wing back with nobody (Bulger?) near him, he was excellent

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118551716#Comment_118551716

Lots of people round the country will be very happy if it's Dessie to blame for the end of the Dubs dominance. Kinda guy the opposition love to hate

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118552071#Comment_118552071

His involvement with GPA a factor in that

corny

There are a lot of complaints about Dessie's gameplan here but I have to ask.... what is Dessie's gampeplan? I don't see a plan.

I saw every Armagh player sure of their individual role and obviously well versed in what the team is trying to achieve as a whole (in defence and attack). I saw Dublin players, while excellent in the core skills, popping up all over the place and making decisions on the fly. Nothing coherent and importantly nothing repeatable in a plan. The days when that was good enough to win an All Ireland are long gone. You will lose to good (not even great) players with good structure every time.

The culture, discipline and ethic of the team are slipping too. I imagine Farrell doesn't have buy in from some of the players in the squad. They've seen better. I suppose there was only one way to go from the top but it's disappointing all the same.

Delighted with the hurlers. It's early season but we made a mockery of Wexford. Paddy Smyth was immense and we are strong around centre back if himself, Conor Burke and Crummey are all operating in that area.

Dyr

Colm O'Rourke looking very pleased with himself during the analysis, maybe someone should ask him if he still thinks Dublin needs to be broken up to save football 😂

rolling boh

Dessie seems to have no game plan just stick on a few subs and carry on .We all know he took on an impossible task but he hasn't done himself any favours with his performances last season and the signs tonight were not good at all .He can't seem to make his mind up about some players and their best positions and gives game time to lads who have never stepped up at county level .

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118552105#Comment_118552105

My tuppence worth on this is that Dessie's plan to to try take as much pace out the game as possible. You can see the players second guessing their natural instincts all the time and that just makes us even more laboured.

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118552033#Comment_118552033

Yep, really poor tactical awareness by the sideline to not shore up that outlet.

gormdubhgorm

Hurlers - fantastic very similar to the Galway match game over at half time. A +. Movement great good closing down - Donal Burke does not know how to miss frees

Footballers - Feck sake - I was roaring too slow move it fecking kick it so often I lost count. Sideways slow stuff easy to defend against. Players reluctant to take a shot. Then when shots were hit they were panicky jobs. Players not supporting other players giving the fella with the ball options. Even Rock was off form on frees when he came on. Left at least 3 behind him.

Defence was shocking as well, fellas waiting for other lads to do the work. Armagh got through very easy lucky not to concede even more goals. One was right down the flipping middle and the other one was just the defence caught flat footed by a long diganal kick.

Really disjointed - D-.

The only positive I can see from that game is how that Bugler - Byrne combo looked before Byrne went off injured. The pace of those two combing will drive defences mad.

Armagh were everything Dublin were not - organised, structured defensively - dangerous and pacey in attack constantly with movement.

Rian O'Neil deserved MOM for some of those outrageous points he scored on their own.

Only positive we have at the moment is that we might be going into the championship written off and 3rd/4th favourites. Tyrone turned it around last year after a mauling v kerry.

Just can’t see us scoring enough in games where the opposition are smart enough to swarm us inside the 45. Costello needs to deliver on all that promise as he’s the only pacey inside forward we have. Far too reliant on an ageing Deano and KK.

jimdemp

Farrell at the wheel

gormdubhgorm

Yeah Howard is no Cian O'Sullivan (for example) that is for sure. COS would have sensed danger before it even developed. And made it look easy.

Now other teams will know that Dublin can be 'got at' the fear factor will have gone. Armagh fans were in shock at half time. They couldn't believe it.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118552105#Comment_118552105

I think you hit the nail on the head re the footballers the culture and mindset has changed. I am not sure Dessie has a real stranglehold on the squad at all. You would expect a drop off in fairness given the turnover in the last while. But Jayus, I did not expect Dublin football to fall so far so fast. The manner in which they lost today was very worrying. There doesn't seem to be a structure to it, to me anyway.

The hurlers in contrast seem to have a culture and ethos real leaders in that team. Players willing to go through walls for Kenny. Hopefully this is start of the squad really clicking and showing consistency. This year I would like Dublin hurling to be that sort of 'best of the rest' team. Capable of a shock and the big guns wary.

flasher0030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118552415#Comment_118552415

From looking at the last 2 games, it's full back that I think ye should address. I think it was Davy Byrne that was number 3 last week against Laois and this evening too. Absolutely roasted in both games. Couldnt handle either number 14. Seemed way off the mark to me anyway.

corny

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118552333#Comment_118552333

Yeah it could be i suppose. But it could also be the case that players are unsure about what comes next and that indecision just looks similar to a desire to slow the game down. It more fits with the wider problems in the team for me.

We remember Dublin under Gavin. They could play slow, slow, slow (the cocked arm in the air signal), death by a thousand hand passes. When the moment came though, someone would burst onto the ball from midfield, a quick interchange of passes would occur and Dean Rock would magically come around on the loop to slot the ball over from 25 yards. Teams were powerless to stop us and it was as if a telepathic link existed amongst the players. There wasn't obviously. It was just well drilled and something that was worked on post 2014.

Farrell's team aren't doing any of that. The players are of similar ability i'd argue. Dean Rock was playing, Costello, Kilkenny, Bugler, Skully all have ridiculous levels of game intelligence. But no interplay or pattern emerges. No plan to deal with disciplined, aggressive defending. We ape the conventional wisdom of playing around the blanket defence in a semi circle but the detail isn't there. Players aren't in positions to receive the ball when we're transitioning from one side of the field to the other. That was very obvious this evening and smacked of a lack of preparedness. We actually resorted to hopeless balls into the square too. Even more depressing... no big man was parked on the square for the hail mary. That obviously wasn't discussed in training either!

It's maybe harsh on Farrell because we're judging him against standards no other team has ever reached. I hope i'm wrong and a new idea/identity emerges from the team ie something that's being worked on behind closed doors and will take time to embed. We'll see.

corny

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118552458#Comment_118552458

It was strange to see the shoe on the other foot for Wexford. Their skills coming under pressure and failing miserably. Normally Dublin are the team under pressure physically and suffering from confidence issues.

I heard Shefflin throwing back handed compliments at Dublin (something he's very fond of doing) after the Galway game. He reckoned Dublin are closer to championship pace than the rest at the moment. I think it's more our team is very settled personnel wise and the management team/gameplan are well established.

A good league might see us challenge in Leinster. We're not that far behind (in Leinster that is).

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118551462#Comment_118551462

It was really odd performance from him, totally differing standards between what was and wasnt a free for forwards and backs.

A free out given for a dive (I think), two frees given when the ball wasn't in play, continually allowing two lads to push Small at every kick out to try wind him up, and doing nothing as Arnagh slowed the game with "injuries" and restarts (as any team would).

On the holding up, it's long been an issue with football, the same thing that is a free when it's one man doesn't seem to be when it's three. Just encourages mass defence.

Odd game, Armagh full value but in another day with the exact same performance we beat them. Freak chip goal, and way too many wides.

Big worry is the lack of drive, pace and presence. Would have loved an O Gara

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118552736#Comment_118552736

I wouldn't disagree with any of that really. Either way though wouldn't fill you with confidence. If it's a planned tactic it's not working. If it's uncertainty within the team then he hasn't been able to fix it in the last 12 months, which is arguably worse for me.

rolling boh

Dessie has had time enough and he should know the players at this stage to have some method of play. To appear not to have learnt anything from last year is really poor form from him and his management.

billyhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118552779#Comment_118552779

No reason why we shouldn't aim to win Leinster.

MFPM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118552736#Comment_118552736

Agree with this, good post. In fairness last night I wasn't judging them against former Dublin teams, I was looking at them against their opposition, Armagh played with pace and power, every time they ran at Dublin they broke in numbers and really rattled Dublin defence. They were really precise in their shooting, I think they had three wides all night. Dublin played in complete contrast to this, slow build up and even when they broke forward they didn't do so in numbers.

Dublin will improve, Rock will get sharper, o Callaghan will add alot up front and McCarthy has to come back but on the evidence of last night he may have to play in midfield. Howard needs to play higher up the field too. This will make Dublin better but I'm not sure it'll take them to the top of the tree this year..

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118553250#Comment_118553250

Think it will be quite a number of years before Dublin get to the top of the tree , "obviously hope im very wrong" Looking on the bright side the calls for splittng Dublin should stop.

flasher0030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118553250#Comment_118553250

It's a bit worrying that Dessie didn't do anything to try to minimise the destruction that Rian O'Neill was causing. Dublin were labouring around with that crossfield passing rubbish over and over again. And then several times when it would break down, Armagh were breaking forward. There would be around 60 yards of space in front of the 2-man full forward line to drag the backs wherever they wanted to. And once O'Neill got it within shooting distance, it was lights out. Maybe I missed something, but nothing significant was done to counter that. I did notice a sweeper back there once or twice when there was 6 mins left. Not much point then!!!

Not trying to go overboard on the deemed demise, but the performance was so headless, for an experienced team. When the game was practically over and Dublin was sending in high balls looking for a miracle, couldn't even do that. Lads were ballooning the ball way up in the sky and slicing it all over the place - instead of just putting a simple lob into the square. Don't think it would have made any difference anyway, but if trying it at all, at least try to do it with some effectiveness. And again towards the end, few times it looked like Dublin were breaking forward, crowd would react a little and raise the tempo. And then 6 or 7 of the Dublin players would just sit back around midfield or the half-back line. What's the point? The Armagh players were all defending in numbers. Why not just push almost everyone up, create a bit of pressure anyway. The team needed 2 goals in reality.

Another time, ref gave free to Armagh. Dublin player had the ball in possession. When ref blew whistle for a free, the Dublin guys marker made a run in over the top for a quick free. What did the Dublin do. Instead of having a look around to see if there was any danger before giving the ball back for the free to be taken, he handed it straight back to an Armagh player. If Armagh were quick-thinking and spotted the inside man, he was in for a goal. I know it's only a small thing, but at any level, you shouldn't just hand the ball back to the opposition to take a quick free.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118553542#Comment_118553542

The Dublin Dominance of the GAA thread brigade must not know what to do with themselves these days. It must be difficult to create a new narrative now without contradicting themselves.

I would say give Dessie another 2 years and review after that. Let him blood players. Amazed how poor he has been tactically - same rubbish appearing a good few games in a row now. When Dessie played he seemed to have football intelligence. Found, space etc. Maybe it was just instinctive stuff? Or he can't demonstrate it to the players.

I was thinking it would not do the Dublin footballers any harm to be forced to watch the last few games again and again. Proper analysis. Use the Meath Ladies footballers as an example of what a structured team plan looks like from the AI final for added emphasis. That should wake them up a bit!

rolling boh

Doubt Dessie will last two years if this year pans out the way its looking two years of turgid stuff with no improvement in sight this year will be his last .No matter if we have a poor year Dessie shoul not be subject to abuse especially after games would not like to see the carry on i saw when Mickey Whelan was at the end of his reign .However after one game this season have to let him see out the year even if i am no fan of his would love to end up with egg on my face .

PressRun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118554149#Comment_118554149

Big physical mismatch between O'Neill and his man, I thought.

In general, I just think there's something slightly off about the squad under Farrell. Hard to come in after Gavin and especially with all the retirements going hand in hand, and it's probably hard for Dessie to tell some of these lads anything when they've multiple all Irelands won. But he's struggling to put his own stamp on the team imo. I was at the game last night and felt they looked a bit at a loose end at times, like they didn't know what to do next once they got the ball into scoring positions. They'd end up panicking and fumbling it or just kicking an energy sapping wide. Obviously it's just the league and a lot can change, but it was just so different to the Gavin era where composure was everything. There were points in the last 10 minutes or so when they were trying to scrape it back and they looked a bit frantic - again, something you just didn't see so much under Gavin. Obviously a lot of Gavin's squad have moved on, but there are still some veterans there from those years who didn't look to be at the pitch of things at all last night and looked as lost as some of the less experienced players.

Fiyatoe

If any of the prawn sandwich brigade from Jim Gavin fan era would like a hand down from your high horses, I’d be glad to help.

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118554282#Comment_118554282

Dessie is into his third year with the team now. If he can't get the squad to buy in by now another two years wouldn't make a lick of difference.

Whatever he is doing now needs to be reassessed in time for the championship. He also needs to make sure we don't go down this year with the new format coming in.

rolling boh

At least draws today keeps it tight i suppose as i expected to win last night we are obviously going to have to win some really tough matches the next two look very hard at least on paper .Whatever happens think Dessie will survive till we exit the champo .