Dublin GAA Discussion Thread: Mod Note - No 'Dublin Dominance' chat allowed!

How Soon Is Now

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118703101#Comment_118703101

Nah there's been little or no signs of improvement even with a full strength team last season all the signs where there.

Let's be honest Dessie has never looked like he was settling into his job and bringing this team forward. The whole mood around the squad from top to bottom since Jim left has been incredibly odd.

We where so negative last season for a team coming off of six in a row I can only imagine what the mind set will be going into this summer.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118703123#Comment_118703123

I think the difference would be Gavin would quickly spot the fellas with drive/no drive. He would have a clear system of play developed at this stage. A simple one that could be implemented quickly. Organisational stuff.

He would at least have Dublin staying in games and not fading/losing heart. If Gavin was still manager. I would say Dublin would be at least a hard working team. They are not even that now.

PARlance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118703161#Comment_118703161

True, or to put another angle on it, maybe Jim would have had the foresight to let a Dessie step in for a couple of years.

PressRun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118703161#Comment_118703161

Definitely. Dublin under Gavin had plenty of fight in them. They were never dead and buried til the final whistle. They seem to be tapping out of battles very early now.

JRant

The fitness levels look poor. Ball skills nonexistent. Zero organisation at the back. Very poor gameplan.

Look, I can understand trying to play more direct but we are just so poor at it. We are playing long ball in when we've already half pushed up. That just leaves acres of space for defenders to play the ball into when we lose these 50:50 balls. Look at how easy we are to score against and it's a direct result of this woeful tactic. Couple that with playing too much football in the corners of the pitch and it's a complete calamity.

Dessie will see out this season but he's left the next manager in a ball of shíté having to play in division 2.

billyhead

Could be another spell of barren years for the Dubs aka 95 to 2011.

jimdemp

Players look disinterested which is understandable. Even the fans and Dublin pundits dont seem too bothered

corny

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118703123#Comment_118703123

Well for starters i'd tentatively argue the case that maybe Paul Mannion, Jack McCaffrey, Eric Lowndes and dare i say it, even Stephen Cluxton would still be available if Gavin was in charge. We can only speculate but it seems at least plausible that there has been trouble in camp since Dessie has taken over.

It's all about culture. It always was with Dublin. People spoke about their individual brilliance, their bench, their tactics, etc but in the grips of battle what got them over the line was their willingness to pull together as a group and fight harder than the opposition. Philly McMahon had a good piece in one of the newspapers a few weeks ago saying the same thing. There's no togetherness with this group or standards set that they all buy into. I'd be fairly confident in saying that wouldn't be the case under Gavin.

muddle84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118704493#Comment_118704493

Based on McCaffreys own words I don't think he would be playing regardless. He admitted to skipping training sessions when Jim was there so I think he was done regardless of the manager. From what he was saying he just couldn't make the time for intercounty as opposed to issues in the camp.

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118703655#Comment_118703655

The players don't look disinterested, they look confused and completely under prepared. Against any of these Div 1 teams you better have your homework done and be ready for a bit of an arm wrestle. In ways I can only describe as spectacular, Dessie has managed to make us look like a scratch team of junior footballs in a short space of time.

JRant

https://twitter.com/DubGAAOfficial/status/1497977933524258819?t=FIcndqOYMofEW2F8ejo_OQ&s=19

Wouldn't exactly be my read on the game. We had fairly obvious learnings that we should have been working on since last year but who knows, maybe we'll turn it around in the next 3 games or the championship.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118705036#Comment_118705036

Spot on if the players were disinterested they would just walk away. It is an amateur sport not Pro Soccer. Where fellas can go through the motions and get a pay packet.

In gaelic football if fellas are fed up of it they walk away - like Jack McCaffrey. Simple as that. Dessie has managed to make a complete arse of the whole thing. But I doubt the League Sunday lads will say that.

It will be more cliched guff about losing hunger and dropping levels. When the main variable that has changed is the man in charge! But it is never said!

Really annoying to hear those cliches and it is repeated so often some people believe it. People have to remember if fellas lose interest they simply move on. That is why the likes of Vinny Murphy played so long he did not want to stop. Regardless of the state of the team at the time. He was even happy as a sub.

PARlance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118704493#Comment_118704493

I suppose my point was that even Jim may have struggled if he was taking over from another manager who had brought such an extended period of success.

How do you follow such success.

How do you motivate players who have won it all, and had went way over and beyond in terms of committment for an extended period.

Dessie has lost a lot of players, maybe that's his fault, but I think he was going to lose a fair few in any case.

I'm not sure where my sympathy for Dessie comes from, but if you went back 20 odd years and had told a Dublin supporter that Dessie would win an All Ireland in his first attempt... And that he would be considered a failure within 14 months... You would get a confused look, at best.

His role was/is an impossible one imo.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118703298#Comment_118703298

It was fundamental part of a Jim Gavin team. Something money can't buy determination and drive. When you think of all those AI's won. There were a good few that Dublin should have lost by right. But they had that eerie calmness that all class sides have. They know they just have to be patient and wait for the other team to make a mistake.

Now it is the complete opposite all the other teams around the country now know Dublin will give teams chances. They don't even have to work hard for chances. A simple high ball and it is pure chaos.

rolling boh

while he did win an all ire it was hardly his team and while he won of course also with a bit of luck with the draw last year and this year it is his team.Our standards seem to have nose dived and that is down to Dessie .Nobody expected to keep winning but our performances over the last year have been poor apart from maybe two first half efforts last year .We should be doing a fair bit better than we are .

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118705205#Comment_118705205

Ah now, for a start you would have to explain Covid to the fella from 20 years ago! That was the main reason Dessie won Sam lets be honest. It was like an O'Byrne Cup. Even less crowds. A limited championship. Kerry were knocked out by an Aussie Rules fella that would have been in Australia only for Covid for example. Plus Dessie hardly changed a thing tactically. It was still Jim's team. If is not broke don't fix it etc.

Now it should be a Dessie Farrell team. And look at the state of the flipping thing. Shambles no improvement, no discernable system. No heart, no fight. And the pundits are feeling sorry for Farrell! He could end up sending Dublin football back 20 years at this rate if he was given a longer period to wreck things.

blanch152

It is actually a combination of a lot of things.

(1) Losing great players is one aspect. Ryan Basquel is no Paddy Small who is no Paul Mannion. The drop-off is huge. Cluxton and McCaffrey are huge losses.

(2) Some of the remaining greats have lost something. Kilkenny was in Paris last week, he is fully entitled to that, but it does make you question his motivation. Rock is struggling, whether with injury or losing a yard in pace. Cooper and Fitzsimons can still do a job, but are not leading at the back. Scully and Howard are not becoming the players that they looked they might be when surrounded by all-time greats.

(3) The manager seems lost. No pattern to play, fitness seems down. Does he need to make up with Jayo. Last ten minutes of both halves saw a drop-off today and that wasn't the only game.

It's a long road back from here. No Dublin team should lose when only conceding 1-12. We should be knocking off more than that in a game like this. If Murchan, McDaid and McCarthy (perhaps at full-back) come back, I won't worry too much about the defence. However, the midfield and attack need work. Fenton still glides across the pitch, but without the same work effort.

If we are going down, why not throw McGarry, O'Dell, McCormack and the rest onto the pitch for the 70 minutes and see can they change it. Leave out the Basquels, Costello, Rock, Kilkenny, Scully and Howard the next day. Let the last four take a mental break to see if they can find the motivation. Come back for the championship if they have it to go again.

C__MC

How have dublin slipped back so badly since last July, they sleeped walked to a leinster title against kildare under believe it or not Dessie. The keep ball tactic that was ridiculed last year might be the best to return back to.

Dyr

So are we still in danger of being broken up to save the game?

corny

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118705205#Comment_118705205

In answer to the question... all you need to do is provide a structure and an environment for the players to thrive. I say that like it's easy. It's not but it is for good leaders.

The motivation is intrinsic. Jim Gavin doesn't make James McCarthy flog himself for 12 years straight in pursuit of his goals. McCarthy will run through walls because that's who he is. The lads who shared his dressing room were exactly the same. All Farrell had to do was provide a platform for them to continue to express themselves. That's an easier job than most. He didn't need to pick players off the ground and instill belief in them that they could win. That's a tough gig.

On the evidence he has failed badly here. We are drifting further and further away from even an acceptable standard, never mind all All Ireland winning standard, and imo we are drifting because of the reasons I outlined in my first post.

Gael85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118704892#Comment_118704892

Agree Jack wouldn't have come back even if Jim stayed on. Work commitments on top of been burned out was a major factor. Has played very little club football in last couple years.

muddle84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118705205#Comment_118705205

To be fair to Jim, he toke over from a manager that had won Dublin's first All Ireland in 16 years!! That was huge success from what I remember anyway so he did have big boots to fill. Dublin had the players for a long long time but Gilroy managed to get them across the line and on top of that Jim managed to integrate all the young players at the time and bench the likes of Bernard Brogan and MDMA and still keep it all together and later on then bring back Diarmuid Connolly and still manage to keep it together. That must have created alot of friction in the camp at the time!

gormdubhgorm

I was rating this current Dublin football panel at about 8 in the country based on a combination of players, form, confidence, adaptation to inter county level for the new lads. But I think it is even worse than that they could conceivably be the 10th best team in the country now. A lot of the div 2 teams would love a Dublin scalp. They will be really motivated and fired up especially in the away games. There will be a buzz around the games.

On what is left of these div 1 games. Dublin could conceivably finish on 0 points. It is Donegal in CP, Tyrone in Omagh and Monaghan in Clones. Dublin might get 2 points in Clones. I say 'might'. But overall Monaghan are now a much better side than Dublin. They have game changers and fellas who don't give in. Can write off points in Omagh anyway. And if Donegal play halfway decent they should beat Dublin.

It is so bad now that I would not be surprised to hear the Dublin crowd turn on Dessie Farrell. The frustration is really building at this stage, it did not happen overnight either.

The worst case scenario is 0 points and Dublin facing the winners of Wexford/Offaly at rock bottom confidence, an unsettled team both tactically and mentally. Rudderless, devoid of leadership on the sideline. If Offaly beat Wexford those u20 lads from their winning team would love a rattle at 'The Dubs'. I honestly think Offaly could beat Dublin in that scenario. As momentum/confidence/settled side are very important factors in sport. It is not about the quality of players but how they are managed.

Offaly only have one point on the board in div 3 after 3 games - one was postponed. But that point won was against Meath. Who lets not forget last year came flying back at Dublin from 11 points down in Leinster. It was only 'muscle memory' that saved Dublin that day.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118707682#Comment_118707682

Yeah the only time I heard of any sort 'trouble in the camp' was from Bernard Brogan. He thought he had done enough in the dead rubber super 8's game in Omagh. But there was still no place for him on the bus in drawn AI Final game 2019.

https://twitter.com/ShaneSaint/status/1168100424534102016?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1168100424534102016%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.otbsports.com%2Fsport%2Fbernard-brogan-misses-dublins-ireland-final-squad-899956

Basically because Connolly was brought back. But the bit that stood out to me was Bernard had the drive to want to come back for the second Kerry game. Another fella would have walked away in a huff.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2019/0913/1075832-team-news-kerry-release-unchanged-team-for-final/

That to me was great management know your players - motivate them fire them up.

--

Apparently Brogan was even not starting in one training game in 2019 which he described as 'a knife in the heart'

https://www.thesun.ie/sport/gaa-football/5871130/dublin-gaa-bernard-brogan-book-2019-training-game/

And that was only a training game! Yet he stuck with the panel for the year.

Kevhog1988

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118705367#Comment_118705367

Because Kildare finally got a management team who believe fully in their county and have brought players in from every part of the county. Senior/intermediate/junior clubs. From my own club last years manager sent a list of players for Trials and Glenn rang and told him the list of lads he wanted to see. The homework was done and then them lads were dogged on the Curragh for almost 2 months to weed out the weak ones. If Kildare & Dublin contest this years Leinster Final it will be a very different affair to last years where Oconnor pulled everyone back to limit the score rather than have a go.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118708159#Comment_118708159

Dublin might not even get that far. Kildare are probably in best shape to win Leinster this year. I remember that Kildare game against Dublin under the previous Kildare management. It was damage limitation stuff from Kildare never had a go. If they did I think Kildare could have made it much closer at least. The Dublin FB line was only ran at once and Daniel Flynn got a goal from it.

Real vibrancy in the Kildare camp -now. And a good style of football. I always feel McGeeney (for example) wasted all Kildare's underage success. Did nothing even in the qualifiers.

But in contrast Ryan seems to be a great organiser and has a cut at teams. If Kildare get a run going all the Lillywhite supporters will be back in force. Kildare could even take over the neutrals favourite tag from Mayo!

Kevhog1988

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118708257#Comment_118708257

Dublin seem to be heading the same way as Kildare were in 2018. Lost every game in the league by small scores and then took a trouncing off Carlow in the first round of the championship. I hope they do get to the leinster final tbh so its a competitive game.

Theres serious competition there now (kildare panel). Probably similar to how Dublin used to be where the likes of the Brogan,McMenamin etc were on your coat tails trying to take your jersey. Even the keepers are being interchanged in the Kildare camp with Aaron Oneill coming in yesterday.

flasher0030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118705403#Comment_118705403

On the contrary. I hear ye are amalgamating with Meath.

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118708297#Comment_118708297

Unfortunately we haven't been losing by small scores this year. In fact, we haven't gotten anywhere near a team so far to even call them close games. Beaten out the gate in 3 of them and a handy enough win for the Lillie where they were never troubled.

Kevhog1988

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118709273#Comment_118709273

Thats a confidence killer tbh. Although ive never been a fan of Dublin i would have always been a fan of certain players. Its a pity the decline was so swift and players decide to opt out.