Dublin GAA Discussion Thread: Mod Note - No 'Dublin Dominance' chat allowed!

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118723855#Comment_118723855

Leaving out the ‘auld lads’.

In my mind Con O’Callaghan and Fenton, Howard are the few top tier fellas that have a good few years in them yet. The tier below that I would have Murchan, Bugler type of players.

After that in my mind most of the players are average after that. Solid if unspectacular. Who I would describe as ‘Paul Casey’ type players.6/10’s.

Dublin’s cloth should be cut accordingly and be more practical in future to get the most out of the team. Most of the Dublin squad is now just average mixed with ageing legends.

But it does not mean that a team can’t perform greater than the sum of their parts if managed properly.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118724664#Comment_118724664

Maybe but you will struggle to win anything. When the championship structure changes next year it will put more pressure on Dublin. Believe it or not this year may be there best chance to get over the line.

The 2020 championship hid the cracks. You had no back door and two fluke results gave Dublin a fairly easy championship run. They still had to win it but it was not the hardest championship to win.

Kerry's failure to restructure after 2011 loss has resulted in us winning one all Ireland in 12 season's. The 2014 result was a flukish result. From 2015 on we were a beaten docket. Too many old players with too much milage clocked up and no youth on the bench except players not good enough to make the team for the last 2-8 years.

Next year will Dublin target Leinster to get to the final. If it loses the Leinster final nest year it's group could have the a provincial winner a Nothern D1 league team and a D3 team. 2 if not 3 of the provincial runners up ( Kerry, Connaught and Leinster could be average D2 teams and Munsters case maybe a D3 team.

Dublin can s in a similar place to Kerry in '87, a group of players that may function as a team but that will takes years to replace unless you ruthlessly restructure over 3-5 years

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118724765#Comment_118724765

I agree with ya on the Covid year it wasn’t a proper championship at all. And as you say it caused mad results.

To be honest I have no confidence in the Dublin footballers adding to the O’Byrne cup this year.

I would have more confidence in the Dublin hurlers winning Leinster!

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118724812#Comment_118724812

If that happens then you need to completely restructure you team next year. Everybody over 30/31 on the panel will need to retire. Fenton is the only exception. Even lads in there mid and late twenties that have spend most of the championships coming on as substitutes will be taking up panel space of younger players

Gael85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118720955#Comment_118720955

Jim brought new lads in Howard, Scully, McHugh 2017, C.Basquel, Comerford, McGowan, Mullally, Murchan, P.Small 2018, Bugler, Gavin, McDaid, O'Cofaigh Byrne 2019. A lot of them from 2018/19 never progressed to the next level so Jim had to rely on the older lads to come bench in 2017-19 finals. I was surprised he brought back Connolly and O'Carroll in 2019.

Since the change from u21 to u20 Dublin are not bringing the same calibre of player to senior set up. Only a difference in year but makes massive difference transitioning from underage to senior. Going by recent u20 managerial appointments CB are not using this a stepping stone to senior job. Jim and Dessie both had 5 years at u21 managing Dublin.

PressRun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118724664#Comment_118724664

The last team that had a brilliant team from 1-15 (and beyond) was Dublin under Gavin. Now, I think all the top teams have a few players who are top tier, but the rest of their players are somewhere between good and average. Knowing that about your team and setting up and picking the team accordingly is key. There is no reason why a team can't still perform well and win while not having a spectacular 1-15. Tyrone won an All- Ireland with a team that has a handful of great players and a few others that aren't as great. Mayo got to a final with the same. Kerry are the same.

The fact is, Dublin's retirees have not been replaced with like for like. Dessie needs to come up with a plan that facilitates that - build a team around Kilkenny, Con, Fenton etc. Play to their strengths. But I'm not sure he trusts the newbies or really knows what to do with them.

Compare for example with Mayo, who also lost a lot of key players - they also weren't replaced with like for like, but James Horan has a system of play that he wants them to buy into and they do, so the transition has seemed more seamless. I think Dessie is struggling to build an identity for the team at present and they aren't buying into him because there's nothing really to buy into - he isn't really putting his stamp on it. I don't know if he anticipated being lumped with a transition project like this, but that's where it's at now and he should start setting up accordingly.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118727383#Comment_118727383

James Horan is a great example. I had Mayo written off for the guts of a decade after Andy Moran etc left. And Horan revamped the whole side in two seasons. Top notch management. Really impressive stuff.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118728602#Comment_118728602

Mayo have had the most skilful players in the country for the last 30+ years. The great Sean Lowry played with them.in the mid 80's, and after 3-3 training sessions told them if they had Offaly jerseys on them they be decked in Celtic crosses.

Getting players like that to finals is no problem bring home the silverware is the test

gormdubhgorm

Dublin hurling team

Kilkenny hurling team

MFPM

Poor first half By Dublin,Kilkenny completely on top. A weakened KK too.

Sultan of Bling

Could someone tell ger canning that there is no Kilkenny player called Walter Welsh. It's Walsh ger, Waaaalsh.

Sorry, we're getting hammered and I'm grumpy.

MFPM

Brief fightback and then KK take over again...11 pts deficit.

Mad about baa baas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118737608#Comment_118737608

Us South kilkenny folk pronounce it Welsh..her canning has his homework done 😉

_NAGDEFY

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118737608#Comment_118737608

'Welsh' pronounced in South Kilkenny.

A bit like Leahy, 'Lahee' or 'Leehy'.

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118737624#Comment_118737624

Well you South Kilkenny folk are wrong as well 😁

JRant

Missed the game today with other commitments. What happened?

Were we that bad or were the Cats just very good?

rolling boh

seemed a typical Dublin hurling performance could not get the ball to stick upfront poor skills thought we would hold our own especially after last week and playing in the neller but not to be . A cats team missing players as well so a poor show really .

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118737799#Comment_118737799

Dublin had the chances did not take them in the end all the full forward line was subbed. Was close enough early on in second half. But Kilkenny did Kilkenny stuff and upped it. Can’t really fault Dublin for effort just outclassed.

JRant

That's disappointing to hear, I thought we'd turned that corner but one game doesn't spell the end of the world here. Hopefully it's a nice wake up call to the lads to up their game against the very best. You don't get away with bad wides and poor ball into the forwards once the ground starts to firm up.

corny

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118737799#Comment_118737799

Kilkenny put excellent pressure on the ball and Dublin lost their nerve. Control, shooting, passing, decision making... everything got worse as the game wore on. That's really disappointing that a team effectively bullies you out of your game. We offered little resistance.

We did look leggy throughout though. I'd argue the game against Waterford was of a higher intensity and we more than coped with that. I hope periodisation or something semi-sophisticated is to blame. I'd hate to think it's the sight of the black and amber jersey.

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118738155#Comment_118738155

Their first goal seemed to kill off our fight back altogether. That it came from a terrible line ball from us is probably what dropped the heads.

JRant

They've had a lot of tough games over the past few weeks and performed really well. Maybe yesterday was just one of those days were the fatigue set in and they just couldn't get to the pitch of the game.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739771#Comment_118739771

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118740444#Comment_118740444

Kilkenny upped it when required. Brian Coady is still the driving force. He is still patrolling that sideline like a man possessed after all these decades. Even when the game in Parnell was over as a contest. Coady was still driving the team on from the sideline!

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118744326#Comment_118744326

I watched the highlights last night and we were well off the pace. The first goal they got was an unlucky one as they got a few slices of luck but the second was way too easy. Team looked very leggy which isn't surprising considering the games we've had on very heavy pitches and where we are in the season.

Kilkenny have tried a few players put so far and just looked a little fresher.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118744686#Comment_118744686

KK didn't even have the Ballyhale lads either.

_NAGDEFY

Next game will tell more about Dublin. Games can get away from you and your leaden footed. Wexford recovered well from their Walsh Cup final. Better a dip now than come championship.

Great display from my county yesterday, there's hurling in them but so inconsistent and the colour of certain county jerseys makes them retreat in to themselves.

piplip87

Not Dub here but shocked to see the level of performance this year. I think alot has to do with tactics. Kildare for example played a long ball which when Dublin play their possession game catches them out.

How many times did Dublin have the ball in shootable positions or ignore the kick pass in favour of retaining possession.

Ive seen club teams who successfully played a possession game in the past few years get undone by fast attacking football.

Just like the blanket defense, possession and handpassing the ball backwards for 5 or 6 minutes has had its day.

I think if Farrell can get away from this total control of the ball, get Fenton to win a ball in the middle and kick the fecking thing Dublin will be there or thereabouts again come championship. Dion certainly have the forwards to beat man and take their scores

corny

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118748732#Comment_118748732

Yeah i also thought of the parallels with the Walsh Cup final. Wexford start brightly, hit some terrible wides and before you know the game is up.

I wouldn't be surprised to see another lacklustre display against Laois tbh. What I took from Saturday is that I don't think Dublin will be too bothered if they don't get to a League semi. We experimented quite a bit in the Walsh Cup run but the league has seen us field virtually the same team every time. Games are great but do we want 7 tough weekends in quick succession for our championship team? We would if there was a gap between league and championship. Probably not ideal with a two/three week gap though.

Other counties are drip feeding lads gradually back in and working to a crescendo. Kilkenny are probably the best example here and I wouldn't be surprised to see them win the league. Dublin obviously aren't following that plan. Not to suggest of course that Dublin are happy to get walloped by Kilkenny or that they're throwing games. They're not. Best to sum it up by saying, like every other team, they'll take the good with the bad from the championship build up (whatever form it takes).

I'm a little worried about our corner forwards and their ability to hold their own against physically powerful defenders. Mellett, Currie and Whitely have all done well in the league as a whole but the Kilkenny lads really put manners on them on Saturday. They'll simply have to do better when it matters. Finding these lads in space is a big part of our game. If we're getting no return, we're snookered.

PS even though Lawlor deservedly got MOTM i think Hayes played well.

JRant

That's very true about our inside forward line Crony. They don't win anywhere near enough dirty ball and playing long balls into them just ends up with the ball going back over our own heads.

From the brief highlights I did see it looks like we went back to pumping ball into them on Saturday. Not sure if that was planned or just the physicality of KK forcing us to play that way. The lads need to back themselves a bit more in those situations and keep the passes shorter or try to draw a foul. Need to be a lot cuter when it comes to these types of games. KK love teams playing 50:50 balls in, the eat that for breakfast. Need to run at them a bit more and make them make a mistake.

billyhead

Eoghan O'Donnell was a big loss on Saturday. I rate him as the best defender in the country.