Dublin GAA Discussion Thread: Mod Note - No 'Dublin Dominance' chat allowed!

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120892690#Comment_120892690

They are the best at defending from the top of the pitch and through midfield. They'll gladly give away a free in the opposition half to allow them reset in defence. They are easily the best in the country at this. You are 100% correct about bringing the ball into contact. It's what they thrive on. They'll either stop play or get a turnover. If we move the ball quickly they'll resort to off the ball checks. This is where Gough needs to be strong early and get the black card out when they do it.

Once they are set, it's very difficult to break them down. As you say, Ryan is in top form lately and they don't give up space easily inside the 45. I hope we don't make the same mistake as last year by playing balls deep in to the corners because we got easily swallowed up the last day doing this. Thankfully, it looks like we've changed tactics this year and are playing a more out to in game, which suits our forwards better.

Con has been quiet this year but I don't think he's playing poorly. Kilkenny has been poor though and looks a yard off the pace. I think he's a better option on the inside forward line these days. When he drops deep he takes the pace out of the game and doesn't have the same spark as previous years to dictate play. Bugler, for all his limitations, brings a directness that troubles even the best defences. He'll take the ball into gaps that Kilkenny doesn't do anymore and creates opportunities for other's.

billyhead

I fancy Dublin to get the job done on Sunday. They have better scoring options then Kerry and a better bench.

Gael85

James McCarthy will play 140th Championship/League game for Dublin on Sunday.

billyhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120894101#Comment_120894101

Hopefully he gets to lift Sam as the captain.

Gael85

Dublin 2023 Championship & League Stats

Gael85

We haven't beaten kerry in 4 years. 20 plus years since a D2 team won AI. Playing in D2 and easy run in championship is poor prep for against a battle hardened kerry. With no Rock starting bar Con none of the other forwards are proving in big games. Kilkenny and Mannion struggling to find form and past their prime. Costello, Paddy Small and Basquel are hit and miss will be a big ask for Dublin to win.

dobman88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120896493#Comment_120896493

What's the craic with Daire Newcombe @Gael85? Starts the 1st 6 games in Championship and then just dropped off the panel. Admittedly, I didn't see a whole pile of him but looked decent from what i did see.

Gael85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120896558#Comment_120896558

Was harshly dropped though thought I think lacks against the big guns. He scored a few points in first couple games. Wasn't roasted in any game. Only 23 so will be back in next year.

dobman88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120896584#Comment_120896584

Thanks very much.

Yeah, 23 is no age. Bound to be a regular next year so

rolling boh

Clearly Dessie is trying to go with established lads to squeeze one more before definitely a few lads sail off .I would be hopeful rather than confident of winning think our team looks good enough on paper our actual form is a bit questionable though.There are questions about Kerry as well though but I think they have paced themselves for this .

YabaDabaDooley

Unlike a couple of very negative posters on here who did nothing but moan all year about the team and constantly harp on about how out of his depth Dessie is i never lost faith that the quality players we have would see us mount a serious challenge. I always felt we'd improve as the year went on be there or thereabouts at the end of the year.

These once in a generation players like James Mc, Fenton, Jack Mc, Kilkenny, Mick Fitz, Cluxton had earned that respect imo not to be written off which they were on here make no mistake about it.

Of course they are slowing down a small bit as to be expected but together with fresher blood and younger legs like Bugler, Basquel, Gannon i'm hoping we will have the hunger to win on Sunday.

I do think we are coming up against a strong Kerry team though who will be out to prove last years semi final win was no fluke. They have had to listen to a lot of Dublin excuses about Con, Jack McCaffrey and Cluxton missing (i'm guilty of that myself) and i imagine they would like nothing better than to beat us in a final with all those lads back. Last year they finally got the monkey off their back in beating us if they can do it again this year in a final it would all point to a changing of the guard.

My fear is Kerry's age demographic is better, less miles on the clock, with the best and most dangerous footballer in the country in his prime and ready to unleash hell i think while we have a great chance that we may come up a bit short on Sunday.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120897635#Comment_120897635

So were the negative posters correct or incorrect?

Dessie only changed first v Mayo when he benched Kilkenny, Paddy Small, McCaffery etc v Mayo he never benched all those before in any previous game. That was a complete turn up for the books, and he got his match ups spot on again a surprise. He threw everyone. Analysts, pundits, fans there was no form for it.

But in saying that Mayo folded like deck chairs in that 10 minutes at the start of the second half. Basquel roasted his man and the Mayo switch was made too late.

Yet, by the same token you don't seem to have the 'faith' that these quality players will beat Kerry on Sunday? Has the faith got a ceiling, or have you turned into a negative poster for the day?

gormdubhgorm

Good podcast here by two of the lads from that great game a decade ago -

Paddy Andrews and James O'Donoghue

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJTBYb0X_rI

Both lads finding it a tough final to call.

James thinking Kerry have the edge on freetaking for most of the game. Hard to argue with that point.

Paddy thinks that the the game will be won in midfield Howard preventing ball into Clifford, which tied into James point that Kerry have to get ball into Clifford and Dublin have to try and prevent the ball going in. Jayus, it sound simple when you say it like that!

YabaDabaDooley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120897855#Comment_120897855

We're in the final where i expected us to be. We have a great chance. Just because i fancy a good Keery team to shade it means im a negative poster? Yea sure lad. You've been whinging all year from minute one. You even contemplated Colm O Rourke being our next manager at one stage. The most ridiculous thing i ever read on here.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120897914#Comment_120897914

You can't have it both ways you having faith and now you have lost it when it matters? It makes no sense.

Why stop there? I can never remember calling Colm O'Rourke for Dublin manager, it was Banty from Monaghan!

Faith by it's very definition means that you have great trust or confidence in someone. You have now lost this great faith, that you have been praising yourself for all championship it seems to me. You seem to want it both ways. To play the martyr fan when all others turned against. But now when it is he big one you are calling Kerry to win albiet couched in case you are wrong?

Where is the blind faith and blind confidence from the previous games?

YabaDabaDooley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120897947#Comment_120897947

No you thought the poster was talking about Colm O Rourke being our manager and it had to be brought to your attention that it was in fact Malachy O Rourke he was talking about.

Always have faith in our lads. I wouldn't cut the legs from under them on an almost daily basis like yourself.

I get the impression you'd be only happy for Dessie to lose so you stick the knife in further.

Sultan of Bling

Ah, lads, let's not turn on each other.

Those cute Kerry whores will be reading this rubbing their hands together.

Or is it Dublin cute whoreism on your part trying to lull the Kingdom in to a false sense of security?

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120897988#Comment_120897988

Not true at all, and I feel you well know it. What happened was I was shocked that a poster would mention Colm O'Rourke as Dublin manager, the poster then said Banty - it was either a previous typo on the posters part, or a misunderstanding the way they phrased it. And I agreed Banty would be a good choice.

In your post previous you went further and tried to imply I called for Colm O'Rourke as manager. Odd stuff.

What you are doing now is a bit twisted to be honest, trying to put yourself on a pedestal above all dublin fans. Look at me 'the man of faith'. v the 'negative fans' as you see it. But yet you majorly waver in the final that seems odd to me. You were so certain of all year!

What you are doing now is trying to blacken me bit, because I am calling out the great man of 'faith' who has major doubts at the final hurdle. If you have to be able to take it as well as dish it out that is my view! Moaning about negative posters, yet you are 'negative' for the final and it is grand? In the same post! You have to admit stepping back from it, it does read funny.

--

Anyway we all want the the Dubs the Dubs to do well. Win or lose Dessie has now over achieved that is just a fact. Start of the year given the fixtures and where Dublin and other teams were. Dublin getting to the SF would have been a great achievement IMO. Dessie has now achieved that, and more.

But to be honest I feel that other teams have left it behind and will be annoyed at themselves namely Mayo,Galway, Derry. However, Dublin/Kerry can only beat what is in front of them and have done so.

Neither of these teams in the AI final can be classed as 'great' IMO there will be a number of teams on Sunday thinking 'what if'.

YabaDabaDooley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120898040#Comment_120898040

I'm not the only one on here who kept faith in the team all year so not trying to be a super fan or put myself on any pedestal. If i was looking to num 1 unwavering fan like you say id have backed us to win on Sunday.

At one stage not so long ago you had us as num 6 or 7 in the pecking order. I couldn't understand it then and i doint get it now.

Anyway your entitled to your opinion like everyone else. No harm in blowing off a bit of pre match stress.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120898073#Comment_120898073

It was you who mentioned the negative posters, trying to create a heirarchy of fan. But you had faith until now apparently. But it is grand when you don't think a team would win

OK lets go thought the 5 or so I thought that were above Dublin

1) Kerry - an obvious one (You even rate Kerry above Dublin correct me if I am wrong)

2) Galway - got to an AI previous great all round team hard to see a real weakness - had Walsh/Comer etc. But Walsh had worst games I ever saw - Comer off injured - different team with those lads.

Hard to split the two below preseason -

3) Mayo - loads pace power youth in the team (plenty would walk into the Dublin panel IMO) I did not factor in the fact that Mayo's youth could see them fold under a bit of pressure - I got that very wrong as a result

Tyrone - another one I got badly wrong I did not expect them to self destruct so much - an odd bunch - some class players - normally have structure as well - I don't know what happened them.

--

Is is much of a muchness in the next three IMO - order almost irrelevant:

4) Derry - Had beaten Dublin once and that midfield of Rodgers/Glass best in country - was proven fairly accurate on this one - Derry should have beaten Kerry - just the internal pressure in the final straight did them.

5) Monaghan - Well structured solid div1 always play to the max get every ounce just lack a bench

6) Dublin - there were so many question marks start of season - Rock was starting passenger, Basquel is he up to it? Dublin had no bench. Then McCaffery and Mannion came back gave Dublin a bit of bench at least.

--

So the way I see it Dessie Farrell have overachieved by two games now - a QF win and a SF win

YabaDabaDooley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120898239#Comment_120898239

There's a difference in thinking thiis team might not win a final v Kerry and thinking that we are num 6 or 7 in the pecking order. Obviously you dont agree.

rolling boh

Wouldn't really say we have overacheived getting to the final .Whereas I didn't think we would win it from the start we were likely to reach a semi and then depending on the draw who knows .I did think there would be a few better teams than what actually happened the likes of Galway Mayo etc were below what I would have expected.The Mayo match for was one of the first if not the first that Dessie changed things up a bit and got it spot on.Maybe in hindsight Mayo fell away but still a good outing for Dessie .We will find out on Sunday barring a replay where we are at exactly .Here's hoping we can pull it off again .

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120898269#Comment_120898269

Were you not saying at the start of the year you could see Dublin win Sam though? Or something to that effect? Or was that another poster?

Your 'faith' that you repeatedly mention seems to be very caveat based when it suits IMO. You can't go mouthing about faith then suddenly lose it. Faith is either there or is not. Otherwise logic takes over. Has logic taken over?

I remember prior to the AI SF Dublin v Kerry 2022 - I got slaughtered and rinsed on here for suggesting that Kerry would edge it v Dublin - learnt from 2019 etc changed tactics - Dublin lost players. My grav was even 'Kerryed up'. I was hammered for being a heretic even worse a like a 'Kerryman'

Saint Jim Gavin was given a pipe and a flat cap by a poster for the craic - I kept it since.

But I was just being logical - I don't work off 'faith' I look at the facts as I see them, and predict the likely outcomes based on previous events.

YabaDabaDooley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120898317#Comment_120898317

I haven't lost faith what are you waffling about. We have a great chance. Slight fancy for Kerry. Stop trying to deflect from your constant negativity all year. Imagine having us 6 or 7 in the pecking order few months back when we favourites with the bookies. I can change my mind as the year goes on. I make Kerry marginal favs on Sunday. As do the bookies. Just because i do doesnt mean i dont have faith in the team. Anyway we're going around in circles now.

dobman88

Nice video put together by Killarney sports journalist Adam Moynihan.

https://twitter.com/AdamMoynihan/status/1684117833368600576?t=25b-DFwTnq2yMA4qg97d_A&s=19

YabaDabaDooley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120898407#Comment_120898407

Yea some great and not so great memories there. It's only today i feel the real build up to Sunday begins as the the first two days of the week was all about the hurling final.

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120898356#Comment_120898356

Yeah, you don't get to rewrite history just because you were optimistic for this season. Last year was an unmitigated disaster. Do we just ignore all the games we lost in the league, taking some serious hiding along the way, getting relegated, and being piss poor in the championship. To suggest other D1 teams would be ahead of us this year isn't some crackpot idea.

I've been a huge critic of Dessie but have given nothing but praise for the last two games. He got the team selection spot on and was making really good tactical changes during both the Mayo and Monaghan games.

YabaDabaDooley

We don't have a lot of posters on this thread. Maybe 6 or 7 and i think there are just two that are overly negative. Of course there can be criticism of the team. I've critoliced them myself at times. But when it is constant negativity and knocking the manager which it has been up to the last game just about even though Dessie lost a lot of players and brought a lot of new players through and we got to the last two All Ire semi finals and very close in both i think some of the criticism has been over the top. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion but i don't come across such negativity on any other county thread. Especially as our record hasn't been bad. Most counties would bite ypur hand off for Dessie's four year record.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120898356#Comment_120898356

So you have gone down to 'slight fancy' for Kerry now having previously talked up your 'faith' - but saying Kerry would have too much. Talk about sitting on the fence! Yet Dublin have a slight chance! Your 'faith' is getting splinters in it's arse!

 

I don't think you know what faith means. It seems if I predict a Dublin loss - I am negative by your ' faith' mantra . But with your narrative if you predict a Dublin loss it is not viewed as negative, just a change of mind. And you also allow yourself the luxury of changing your mind not only as the year goes on, but in the last number of posts you posted.

 

1) You said I called for Colm O'Rourke as Dublin manager after I called out your lack of 'faith' when you talked up your 'faith' while at the same time trying to belittle 'negative' posters as you saw it.

2) You Realised I did not pick Colm O'Rourke as manager - but Banty - but still turned it into a sneer

3) Claimed to have faith but are calling a Kerry win

4) You have a slight fancy for Dublin in the same match!

 

With point 3 and 4 combined you can't lose - you can be correct either way.

You are all over the shop.

 

As for the bookies they are bookies - they work on the basis of actuaries so they can make the max profit. There are more Dublin supporters than others so they will always be near the top in the odds. The bookies odds will reflect that to ensure if there is a Dublin win - the bookies are still in a profit.

--

Anyway I hope the Dubs win on Sunday,. I hope you have a ticket etc

But you really need to cut out the divisive stuff that you are carrying on with. Having a go at other Dublin posters just because they do not have 'faith' as you see it. Only for you to hypocritically lose the 'faith' when it suits - then couch it with caveats - you have yourself well covered for the Final. Fearing a Kerry win - but Dublin have a chance! Genius that. You could be a pundit.

 

Drumpot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120898843#Comment_120898843

I admittedly find it hard to judge Dessie. The best I can say is that I’m not sure what he’s bringing to the table.

It’s harsh but his all ireland success for me was him inheriting the majority of the greatest side of all time and I feel they would have won that through muscle memory regardless of coach. Also hard to know how covid affected things.

It’s difficult to gauge how player hunger and player retirements have affected things. Also difficult to know if any retirements were down to players not being completely sold on whatever Dessie was doing.

Yes, Dublin have been close in championship terms but they have always had a strong panel on paper in comparison to rivals so being close isn’t necessarily an endorsement of how good a coach is. They should be competing at the tail end of championships, even with the retirements.

So I don’t feel Dessie has done anymore (to date) then we should expect. Their form in the league has been poor, even this season there was some terrible performances even if we did get the wins.

A part of me wonders how much bringing back Pat Gilroy is playing on the team. You have to compliment dessie on that.

One thing that looked clear when Dessie had his second season was that Dublin didn’t look as clinical or composed. Lots of cracks begun to show and yes new players (lower quality) explained some of it but not all of it.

As mentioned before, you can find loads of examples where clearly top coaches have helped weaker teams improve a lot or helped teams get to the next level. I’m not sure we could say dessie is a coach you’d fancy against all other top coaches if all things were equal with teams.

The only way was down after Dessie came in. You can’t improve on perfect , so he’s kind of been on a hiding to nothing. But if you even look at the previous two Dublin coaches , you can see the qualities they brought to their teams.

What qualities do you think dessie has brought to the role?

What exactly have you seen the last 18 months that had you so confident of Dublin this season?