Dublin GAA Discussion Thread: Mod Note - No 'Dublin Dominance' chat allowed!

gormdubhgorm · 06-12-2020 8:08pm

Cavan_King wrote: »

No, I’m missing nothing. I just think you’re missing the point that every team were aware of the these changes. It didn’t seem to effect Donegal when they beat Tyrone and dismantled Armagh. Must have just been against Cavan that they realised Covid had hit the country.

Bonniedog wrote: »

I must go against gormdubh on this matter!

Cavan and Tipp won on their merits. Ulster was very tight and some good games. the argument that they might not have gotten to a semi final if "better" teams got a second chance - which they ought not to as I would favour a completely open draw - is neither here nor there. Cavan won Ulster and a right to be in a semi final. Both they and Tipp went down to the best teams of last 7/8 years.

rolling boh wrote: »

Cavan and Tipp of course won their titles on merit its just such one sided semi finals look pretty bad and give a poor impression of the championship .I was happy to play Cavan as i was fairly sure we would win and would love to play Tipp in the final because i would be almost sure we would win that as well .Leaving my Dublin bias aside the semi finals really shoul have four of the top sides which was not the case this year .

Nah lads I am not buying it. It can't be a coincidence that Cavan did not win Ulster for 23 years until covid 19 hit. Plus it can't be a coincidence that Tipp won Munster because of covid 19 after 85 years. Fair play to them for taking their chance though.

If both teams even come near to it again in the next 2/3 years or win it. I will say I was wrong and youse were right.

I say the same thing about Dublin's u21 win v Tyrone in 2003. I don't really think it was fair on Tyrone because they had key players playing senior a few weeks before after mad celebrations. Dublin were walloped the year before by Galway.
It was more circumstance that contributed to Dublin's victory then. As is the circumstances now in my opinion.

If Dublin, win Sam this year I won't really count it - not properly. Yeah it is a win but....
How can you really count it? The season is all over the shop - long rest - condensed games - colder weather - no back door - no super 8's - no crowd.

Massive asterix, not a normal year. It affected teams in different ways some positive and some negative. Dublin got a rest!

I am delighted Dublin won the 5 in a row in 'normal years'. Because this year has been a bit farcical in my opinion

As I said, if Cavan and Tipp do similar (as this year) in the next 2-3 years and show consistency. It will show it was not fluke. And I will admit that I was wrong.

rolling boh · 06-12-2020 8:41pm

I will gladly count the all ireland this year if we win unlike Kerry and to a certain extent Donegal we did not take our eye off the ball and get beaten by inferior teams.The championship format this year was what it was and the winner will earn their title .Covid may have messed up things for some more than others but we do not really know to what extent .Certainly do not see either Cavan or Tipp arriving to the latter stages as provinical champions any time soon again but if they do good luck to them .

Rolo2010 · 06-12-2020 8:57pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

I must go against gormdubh on this matter!

Cavan and Tipp won on their merits. Ulster was very tight and some good games. the argument that they might not have gotten to a semi final if "better" teams got a second chance - which they ought not to as I would favour a completely open draw - is neither here nor there. Cavan won Ulster and a right to be in a semi final. Both they and Tipp went down to the best teams of last 7/8 years.

No one is disputing their right to be in a SF. This year just proves why straight knockout football is crap and why the qualifiers were introduced in 2001. No way Kerry would have lost to Dublin by 15 points.

Bonniedog · 06-12-2020 9:07pm

Rolo2010 wrote: »

No one is disputing their right to be in a SF. This year just proves why straight knockout football is crap and why the qualifiers were introduced in 2001. No way Kerry would have lost to Dublin by 15 points.

Well. it raises the question as to why a supposedly better team ought to get a second chance?

I know the season has been truncated for other reasons, but i wouldn't object to seeing it being repeated. a completely open draw would be even more interesting. Five rounds with a preliminary involving New York and London.

Sure, it would be great crack!

Rolo2010 · 06-12-2020 9:24pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

Well. it raises the question as to why a supposedly better team ought to get a second chance?

I know the season has been truncated for other reasons, but i wouldn't object to seeing it being repeated. a completely open draw would be even more interesting. Five rounds with a preliminary involving New York and London.

Sure, it would be great crack!

Because it is ultimately better for the competition. The SFs this weekend were a joke. It wasn't a good promotion for football. I would object to this happening again because we already know what will happen. There should be a tiered championship. I don't buy into this nonsense that every county has a divine right to compete at the top level. Every other code has figured this out. But that's me talking from a hurling background.

gormdubhgorm · 07-12-2020 12:44am

Rolo2010 wrote: »

Because it is ultimately better for the competition. The SFs this weekend were a joke. It wasn't a good promotion for football. I would object to this happening again because we already know what will happen. There should be a tiered championship. I don't buy into this nonsense that every county has a divine right to compete at the top level. Every other code has figured this out. But that's me talking from a hurling background.

It is like a blind spot or something I don't get it.
Surely people enjoy the league even in its current format.

All the super 8's and backdoor do is a half assed design to almost create a league and it does neither.

Problems over home and away - CP etc - big teams getting handy runs through qualifiers. Others winning their province and almost being disadvantaged for it.
.
League in the summer 8 fairly equal teams home and away would be lovely

EICVD · 07-12-2020 12:44am

kona wrote: »

Well hammer mayo harder than meath if this mayo defense shows up.

Hopefully, I’d love to break their hearts finally hammering them in a final

gormdubhgorm · 07-12-2020 12:56am

EICVD wrote: »

Hopefully, I’d love to break their hearts finally hammering them in a final

I was told this great one -

Final on 19th December

Add up 19-12-20 = 1951 (Year they last won it)

Mayo 4 Sam!

FarmerBrowne · 07-12-2020 1:03am

EICVD wrote: »

Hopefully, I’d love to break their hearts finally hammering them in a final

Every Roscommon person hope's ye do the same, bring it on.

BonnieSituation · 07-12-2020 1:11am

Bonniedog wrote: »

Well. it raises the question as to why a supposedly better team ought to get a second chance?

I know the season has been truncated for other reasons, but i wouldn't object to seeing it being repeated. a completely open draw would be even more interesting. Five rounds with a preliminary involving New York and London.

Sure, it would be great crack!

Agree with all of that. Anyone arguing for a backdoor should go off and watch hurling.

crossman47 · 07-12-2020 1:04pm

EICVD wrote: »

Hopefully, I’d love to break their hearts finally hammering them in a final

I'm not from Mayo but thats really bitter. They could/should have won at least one by now so why be so bitter? Only for them, Dublin would have it even easier than they have.

homewardbound11 · 07-12-2020 1:10pm

FarmerBrowne wrote: »

Every Roscommon person hope's ye do the same, bring it on.

I have to say as a mayo supporter I’ve always supported Roscommon or indeed any Connaught team progressing in the football.

Maybe if you showed some focus on your own counties football you might get past a Connaught final . When your looking over your shoulder at your neighbour it’s hard to see anything but what they are doing .

gormdubhgorm · 07-12-2020 1:32pm

FarmerBrowne wrote: »

Every Roscommon person hope's ye do the same, bring it on.

This type of thing always makes me laugh. Nearly no one wants their near neighbours to win. Especially if the dominate provincial team are in a big game.

Every province is like that except Ulster, who supports the Ulster team. For obviously historical reasons.

I never shouted for Meath when they were Leinster representatives either!

It must be very strange for Mayo fans though. If they did win it they would be both elated and sickened that they could not be there.

I remember I was in the hyde for a league game v the Rossies. And the Roscommon fella beside me was educating me on how much Roscommon people hate Mayo. And in particular Andy Moran because of the Ballaghaderreen issue.
He was getting very animated about it. Was a horrible wet day. The Rossies and Cox played well if I remember correctly.

gormdubhgorm · 07-12-2020 1:40pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Agree with all of that. Anyone arguing for a backdoor should go off and watch hurling.

It is only a sticking plaster to the championship.

What could work is no provincials and an open draw with 16 teams in it. Would cover div 1 and div 2. Could throw up all sorts of interesting games (as well as few wallopings granted) . But if the big guns knocked each other out early on would really open it up.

Could div 3 and div 4 teams really argue about not been included?

ShyMets · 07-12-2020 1:53pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

This type of thing always makes me laugh. Nearly no one wants their near neighbours to win. Especially if the dominate provincial team are in a big game.

Every province is like that except Ulster, who supports the Ulster team. For obviously historical reasons.

I never shouted for Meath when they were Leinster representatives either!

It must be very strange for Mayo fans though. If they did win it they would be both elated and sickened that they could not be there.

I remember I was in the hyde for a league game v the Rossies. And the Roscommon fella beside me was educating me on how much Roscommon people hate Mayo. And in particular Andy Moran because of the Ballaghaderreen issue.
He was getting very animated about it. Was a horrible wet day. The Rossies and Cox played well if I remember correctly.

My Father is a Roscommon man. Although from the south of the county in a part where Hurling is very strong. He played far more hurling in his youth then football and would have more of an interest in Hurling.

Yet he has no love Mayo. When I've asked him why he has such a disregard for Mayo and yet seems pretty natural to the rest of the Connacht teams, he told me that Mayo have always looked down upon Roscommon and never afforded then the respect they feel they deserve.

I can't comment on that but certainly having spent a lot of time down I've yet to meet to many Roscommon people who would cheer for Mayo.

07-12-2020 1:56pm

There's nothing wrong with a dislike and rivalry when it comes to neighbouring counties anyway. People are all too desperate to make everything bland these days.

BonnieSituation · 07-12-2020 2:15pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It is only a sticking plaster to the championship.

What could work is no provincials and an open draw with 16 teams in it. Would cover div 1 and div 2. Could throw up all sorts of interesting games (as well as few wallopings granted) . But if the big guns knocked each other out early on would really open it up.

Could div 3 and div 4 teams really argue about not been included?

Apparently people don't want the big guns going out early. Ya see, those peddling solutions don't know what they want. They know what they don't want. And that's Dublin winning. That's all.

BonnieSituation · 07-12-2020 2:16pm

ShyMets wrote: »

My Father is a Roscommon man. Although from the south of the county in a part where Hurling is very strong. He played far more hurling in his youth then football and would have more of an interest in Hurling.

Yet he has no love Mayo. When I've asked him why he has such a disregard for Mayo and yet seems pretty natural to the rest of the Connacht teams, he told me that Mayo have always looked down upon Roscommon and never afforded then the respect they feel they deserve.

I can't comment on that but certainly having spent a lot of time down I've yet to meet to many Roscommon people who would cheer for Mayo.

The hatred that Mayo people have for Roscommon as well is there.

And I've been to Tulsk, so i get it.

BonnieSituation · 07-12-2020 2:18pm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with a dislike and rivalry when it comes to neighbouring counties anyway. People are all too desperate to make everything bland these days.

I have always hated Meath. I will always hate Meath.

Themselves and Kerry have a special place in hell for me.

Kildare, I nothing them. Irrelevant really.

gormdubhgorm · 07-12-2020 2:33pm

ShyMets wrote: »

he told me that Mayo have always looked down upon Roscommon and never afforded then the respect they feel they deserve.

I can't comment on that but certainly having spent a lot of time down I've yet to meet to many Roscommon people who would cheer for Mayo.

This is the impression I got from talking to the Rossie fan he must have been in his 50's/60's an out an and out dyed in the wool fan. I had to stop myself laughing because he was getting very annoyed just even thinking about Mayo.

Plus, he made the point of telling me Roscommon people would always for Dublin in the finals they played against Mayo.

FarmerBrowne · 07-12-2020 2:35pm

homewardbound11 wrote: »

I have to say as a mayo supporter I’ve always supported Roscommon or indeed any Connaught team progressing in the football.

Maybe if you showed some focus on your own counties football you might get past a Connaught final . When your looking over your shoulder at your neighbour it’s hard to see anything but what they are doing .

Up the dubs, the Sammy Dodgers are on tour again on the 19th. Roscommon will be all out for a dubs victory believe me. If Galway were there we would support them.

Slattsy · 07-12-2020 2:37pm

Any spare tickets for the final?

ShyMets · 07-12-2020 2:38pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I have always hated Meath. I will always hate Meath.

Themselves and Kerry have a special place in hell for me.

Kildare, I nothing them. Irrelevant really.

I'm pretty natural when it comes to Kerry. Kildare are a total non-entity, despite what a prominent journalist on twitter seems to think.

But I've no love for Meath. Maybe it was because my formative years were the late 80/early 90's. That Meath team while having some wonderful footballer and being a brilliant team were just nasty and seemed to want to go out and hurt opposition players

piplip87 · 07-12-2020 2:39pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It is only a sticking plaster to the championship.

What could work is no provincials and an open draw with 16 teams in it. Would cover div 1 and div 2. Could throw up all sorts of interesting games (as well as few wallopings granted) . But if the big guns knocked each other out early on would really open it up.

Could div 3 and div 4 teams really argue about not been included?

Please enough about divisions. It's the league, still used by many teams to prepare for the championship. Cavan got relegated two years on the trot and got to two Ulster Finals beating division 1 teams in the process.....

BonnieSituation · 07-12-2020 2:41pm

Slattsy wrote: »

Any spare tickets for the final?

"Jaysus Joe, I've been to every match this year and I even can't get a ticket, it's disgraceful"

gormdubhgorm · 07-12-2020 2:43pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Apparently people don't want the big guns going out early. Ya see, those peddling solutions don't know what they want. They know what they don't want. And that's Dublin winning. That's all.

That is the impression I have got I only started getting an annoyed exasperated head on me. Giving options, what about xyz or z? Or abc?.

One fella is convinced the championship is dead, football is dead. So I gave him a few suggestions. And mentioned Jim McGuinness's solution.

And what did he say? The horse has bolted and I don't want any options forced upon me!

--
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Anyway regardless of who wins this AI final, I hope the League will be back next year - and hopefully fans will be able to travel. I think I will go even more annoyed and demented than I am now if it is not.

gormdubhgorm · 07-12-2020 3:07pm

piplip87 wrote: »

Please enough about divisions. It's the league, still used by many teams to prepare for the championship. Cavan got relegated two years on the trot and got to two Ulster Finals beating division 1 teams in the process.....

The league is massive indicator of successful counties over a 2-3 year period.
Teams might build for a year and then see improvement.

This year is an outlier in my view- as it is not a normal season.

The league has been integral to Dublin's improvement as team.

In my view many top teams have treated the league seriously since 1997.
The days of "it's only the league" are long gone.

In my view it should be THE league.

Look back from 1997 - 2020 League winners

1997 - 2010

1997 Kerry won League and Sam

1998 Offaly won league and won Leinster 1997

1999 Cork won league and AI runner up

2000 Derry league - Ulster runner up

2001 Mayo league - Connacht runner up

2002 Tyrone League

2003 Tyrone League and Sam

2004 Kerry won League and Sam

2005 Armagh won League (Tyrone div1 League semis and Sam)

2006 Kerry won League and Sam

2007 Donegal won League

2008 Derry won league (Kerry league and Sam runners up)

2009 Kerry won League and Sam

2010 Cork won League and Sam

2011-2020

2011 Cork won league (Dublin league runners up and won Sam)

2012 Cork won league (Cork AI Semi Final - won Munster)

2013 Dublin won League and Sam

2014 Dublin won League, Leinster and get to AI SF

2015 Dublin won League and Sam

2016 Dublin won League and Sam

2017 Kerry won League, Munster and get to AI SF (Dublin win Sam league runners up)

2018 Dublin won League and Sam

2019 Mayo won League

2020 Kerry won League (2019 AI runners up)
**Massive covid19 Asterix on 2020 league though**

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Plus the team that Pat built was largely constructed in one year experimentation in the league 2009 Mark Davoran was given his chance then I think. Unfortunatley he got injured. The Dubs stayed in division 1. Fellas like MacCauley were given their chance in 2010. MDM actually scored the winning point to beat Kerry for the first time in my lifetime (league/championship) in the 2010 league.
In Killarney and all which made it all the sweeter!

People who knock the league don't understand it, nor do they appreciate it.

Ok, there might be some outlier's like Westmeath who focused on the championship, for the sake of a few one off wins. But most counties treat the league, very seriously now.

Turlough O'Connor, for example who described Carlow as winning div 4 as very important for Carlow.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2017/0521/876898-turlough-oconnor/

(O'Connor 2017)

"From a Carlow perspective, the league is the most important competition because we've been in the basement division for far too long," he explained. "We really need to get out of it.

"It's been a target for the last three years and we very close this year to doing that. If we achieved that goal I think football in Carlow would really come on in leaps and bounds."

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I believe the league is the best GAA competition by miles. And it brought Dublin football back giving many exciting games in the process. You need only look at a few of the league finals the Dubs were involved in.

Rolo2010 · 07-12-2020 3:16pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

That is the impression I have got I only started getting an annoyed exasperated head on me. Giving options, what about xyz or z? Or abc?.

One fella is convinced the championship is dead, football is dead. So I gave him a few suggestions. And mentioned Jim McGuinness's solution.

And what did he say? The horse has bolted and I don't want any options forced upon me!

--
--

Anyway regardless of who wins this AI final, I hope the League will be back next year - and hopefully fans will be able to travel. I think I will go even more annoyed and demented than I am now if it is not.

Jim's solution is good. Still think it should be based entirely on League. Provincials can be held on their own in Feb. First round based on this year's League.

Kerry v Down
Dublin v Cork
Galway v Clare
Tyrone v Laois
Donegal v Westmeath
Monaghan v Kildare
Roscommon v Meath
Armagh v Mayo

Mix the games up to prevent one side of the draw being too strong. So Kerry v Down, Galway v Clare, Donegal v Westmeath, and Roscommon v Meath would be on one side of the draw.

The GAA can go for double elimination if they want more games. Either way it would be better championship.

muddle84 · 07-12-2020 3:23pm

how are you all feeling about the final and your chances against Mayo, or Mayo's chances against you is probably a more fitting way of putting it. Are you nervous or confident?

As a Mayo fan, I'm absolutely delighted to be back in a final full stop. All the better that its against Dublin but i'm not confident we will get as close to Dublin as 2017 especially based on the result last year. But I can't help but get excited and wonder what if!

gormdubhgorm · 07-12-2020 3:42pm

muddle84 wrote: »

how are you all feeling about the final and your chances against Mayo, or Mayo's chances against you is probably a more fitting way of putting it. Are you nervous or confident?

As a Mayo fan, I'm absolutely delighted to be back in a final full stop. All the better that its against Dublin but i'm not confident we will get as close to Dublin as 2017 especially based on the result last year. But I can't help but get excited and wonder what if!

If Horan is learning anything from his past mistakes it could be closer than I think.
If would call a score I would say about Dublin by 8 ish.

But it is an odd game no crowd. I have no idea of Mayo and Dublin's challenge match record against each other. There is nothing on the line at the end of those though.

If I was a Mayo fan I would be delighted a very fit team, full of energy. A good sprinkling of young lads thrown in mixed with the auld heads. Future looks brighter than a few years ago imo. When it was the same old faces and legs with lots of miles on the clock.

If I was Horan I would start cagey and try and play on the break - or transitions/turnovers as he loved to call it on SKY. Mayo need goals probably two/three to win and have to keep Dublin to one/none. Dublin will probably get about 20 points (in total) I would say. So that is around the the target Mayo have to aim for.

It almost feels like a 'free shot' for Mayo as many will give them no chance. Should be less pressure. But, if Mayo are in the mix in the last few minutes of the game how will they cope with the weight of history? Dublin don't have that weight no five in row target now either.

Am I nervous as a Dub fan? Honestly, not in the slightest I was VERY nervous at year though going for five.

This year feels less important especially because of covid19 etc added in. Means the world to Mayo though still - obviously!

Dublin GAA Discussion Thread: Mod Note - No 'Dublin Dominance' chat allowed!

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