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Norwegian air

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    #122
    Locker10a
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,173 Mod ✭✭✭✭Locker10a


    BZ wrote: »
    6 of their 787s sitting on the ground in SNN at the moment.

    Thanks, only 2 showed up for me


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    #123
    Locker10a
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,173 Mod ✭✭✭✭Locker10a


    goingnowhere wrote: »
    2 737MAX in Dublin

    Haven’t they been there long term ? Since the grounding ?


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    #124
    mikel97
    Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭mikel97


    goingnowhere wrote: »
    2 737MAX in Dublin

    Belong to Norwegian Air Sweden, separate entity.


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    #125
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,689 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Locker10a wrote: »
    Haven’t they been there long term ? Since the grounding ?

    Probably get sent back to the leasing company at this stage...

    At this stage i'd say those 2 aircraft will have spent 2+ years on the ground.. not good for any aircraft...


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    #126
    LiamaDelta
    Registered Users Posts: 809 ✭✭✭LiamaDelta


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    Probably get sent back to the leasing company at this stage...

    At this stage i'd say those 2 aircraft will have spent 2+ years on the ground.. not good for any aircraft...

    would they be connected to any power source or have any sort of internal power to remove moisture out of the air and prevent mould etc. via a heater or dehumidifier?


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    #127
    IngazZagni
    Registered Users Posts: 1,593 ✭✭✭IngazZagni


    LiamaDelta wrote: »
    would they be connected to any power source or have any sort of internal power to remove moisture out of the air and prevent mould etc. via a heater or dehumidifier?

    I'm pretty sure engineers give it a good check every week including an engine run.


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    #128
    mr.anonymous
    Registered Users Posts: 481 ✭✭mr.anonymous


    I'd wonder if the Irish AOC will be a casualty of the cutbacks


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    #129
    Tenger
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 9,840 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    LiamaDelta wrote: »
    would they be connected to any power source or have any sort of internal power to remove moisture out of the air and prevent mould etc. via a heater or dehumidifier?

    they are in long term storage which has regular maintainance procedures to be followed. I’ve think that they move position every now and then. I assume this is part of these procedures, relieve pressure on the tyres?


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    #130
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,689 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    IngazZagni wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure engineers give it a good check every week including an engine run.

    Didn't know Norwegian had engineers in Ireland?

    Unless they're flying them over each week from Oslo to do general maintenance?


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    #131
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,689 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    LiamaDelta wrote: »
    would they be connected to any power source or have any sort of internal power to remove moisture out of the air and prevent mould etc. via a heater or dehumidifier?

    Definitely not, unless Norwegian are sending over maintenance guys and renting ground power units from the DAA....


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    #132
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    Or they contract Dublin Aerospace, EI, FR etc to provide engineering support


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    #133
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,689 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    goingnowhere wrote: »
    Or they contract Dublin Aerospace, EI, FR etc to provide engineering support

    Possibly, though I thought Aer lingus were an Airbus only shop, and Ryanair would only service their own NG's... though maybe with Ryanair's big Max order they'll start to train the engineers for the Max update..
    Dublin Aerospace, thought they only did heavy maintenance and didn't have 737 engineers?


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    #134
    mr.anonymous
    Registered Users Posts: 481 ✭✭mr.anonymous


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    Didn't know Norwegian had engineers in Ireland?

    Unless they're flying them over each week from Oslo to do general maintenance?

    Boeing provides maintenance support in Dublin for them afaik


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    #135
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,689 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    mr.anonymous wrote: »
    Boeing provides maintenance support in Dublin for them afaik

    I like to keep up on Aviation news and looking at this article it seems both companies don't have a business relationship?

    https://simpleflying.com/boeing-norwegian-737-max-lawsuit/


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    #136
    mr.anonymous
    Registered Users Posts: 481 ✭✭mr.anonymous


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    I like to keep up on Aviation news and looking at this article it seems both companies don't have a business relationship?

    https://simpleflying.com/boeing-norwegian-737-max-lawsuit/

    That's only about the Max not being as promised. Routine maintenance of the parked aircraft is provided by Boeing engineers.


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    #137
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,689 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    mr.anonymous wrote: »
    That's only about the Max not being as promised. Routine maintenance of the parked aircraft is provided by Boeing engineers.

    I would hope the Max is being serviced by Boeing engineers, but they must be Norwegian employees or maybe even D.A as someone posted here earlier..


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    #138
    billy few mates
    Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭billy few mates


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    Definitely not, unless Norwegian are sending over maintenance guys and renting ground power units from the DAA....

    You need two GPUs to power up a B787 on the ground, those things can cost anything up to €300 - €400 an hour to rent in some places, there's quite a bit of work involved in keeping a 787 in storage, it would be a lot cheaper to power it from the APU when you need to do anything to it.
    The workload varies depending on the particular storage program they're in (long term, short term/flight ready etc) but for the flight ready storage you have to power them up every three days at a minimum to keep the batteries charged or they can lock themselves out meaning they have to be replaced at a cost of about €80k each.


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    #139
    PinOnTheRight
    Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭PinOnTheRight


    There are at least 4 787s parked up in Prestwick that occasionally ping up on FR24 every so often. At least one was ferried direct from Seattle last year and has never entered service. Another landed into Prestwick on 2nd July 2019 and hasn't been airborne since. :eek:


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    #140
    lintdrummer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭lintdrummer


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    I would hope the Max is being serviced by Boeing engineers, but they must be Norwegian employees or maybe even D.A as someone posted here earlier..

    Boeing have an engineering support service that their airline customers can sign up for. There are Boeing engineers based at DUB. I don't know if Norwegian are availing of that service but I would guess that they are.
    To answer the earlier question: any aircraft that is in storage must undergo some routine maintenance, they aren't just left parked up to go mouldy. If they are being stored long term they go through a lot of preparation for storage, tasks that protect the aircraft from the weather and lack of use. At intervals determined by the manufacturer certain tasks are completed to maintain the aircraft (eg. turning the wheels to prevent flat spots on the tyres.


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    #141
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,689 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    lintdrummer wrote: »
    Boeing have an engineering support service that their airline customers can sign up for. There are Boeing engineers based at DUB. I don't know if Norwegian are availing of that service but I would guess that they are..

    Like in my previous post, if Norwegian are suing Boeing then I'd say that Dublin Aerospace or Norwegian themselves are sending over engineers to keep up the maintenance on the 2 planes..


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    #142
    Locker10a
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,173 Mod ✭✭✭✭Locker10a


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    Like in my previous post, if Norwegian are suing Boeing then I'd say that Dublin Aerospace or Norwegian themselves are sending over engineers to keep up the maintenance on the 2 planes..

    Why!? Why would that be the case ! Boeing are a HUGE multinational company, why do you think a handful of employees in Ireland would give a thought or a toss what some legal department in Chicago are doing in the same company. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are low level Boeing employees who don’t even know there’s any legal challenge involving Norwegian.
    I’d imagine the engineering department in Ireland and the lawyers in Chicago are run completely independently of each other... I could be wrong


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    #143
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,689 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Locker10a wrote: »
    Why!? Why would that be the case ! Boeing are a HUGE multinational company, why do you think a handful of employees in Ireland would give a thought or a toss what some legal department in Chicago are doing in the same company. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are low level Boeing employees who don’t even know there’s any legal challenge involving Norwegian.
    I’d imagine the engineering department in Ireland and the lawyers in Chicago are run completely independently of each other... I could be wrong

    Probably because of this yea?

    https://www.aviationpros.com/airlines/news/21144217/budget-carrier-norwegian-air-cancels-orders-for-97-boeing-planes
    Norwegian on Monday issued a notice to the Boeing Company of termination of its purchase agreements for five Boeing 787 aircraft and 92 Boeing 737 MAX aircraft, as well as GoldCare service agreements related to the 787 and MAX aircraft.


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    #144
    basill
    Registered Users Posts: 1,348 ✭✭✭basill


    Check the date on that article. That is a lifetime in aviation. Also nobody here will know the intricacies of the maintenance agreements of the aircraft at Dublin airport and who is cutting the cheque each month.


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    #145
    billy few mates
    Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭billy few mates


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    Like in my previous post, if Norwegian are suing Boeing then I'd say that Dublin Aerospace or Norwegian themselves are sending over engineers to keep up the maintenance on the 2 planes..

    Dublin Aerospace don't have B787 approval so they can't look after these aircraft at all. As far as I'm aware Norwegian have the CAMO here in Ireland so it's possible some of the people from there would be looking after the aircraft while they're in storage but I think they did also have the Boeing Gold Care maintenance support package so Boeing could be looking after them otherwise I don't know any other organisation in Ireland with B787 approval.
    It's also possible that the leasing companies that own the aircraft are stumping up for the storage costs (which can be quite expensive) because they all have to be properly documented and certified otherwise they could be facing extremely expensive maintenance checks to satisfy the airworthiness authorities when they do try to bring them back into service or to take them out of storage if they need to position them somewhere else. There's actually quite a lot involved in keeping them airworthy when they're not flying.


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    #146
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,689 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    billy few mates wrote: »
    Dublin Aerospace don't have B787 approval so they can't look after these aircraft at all. As far as I'm aware Norwegian have the CAMO here in Ireland so it's possible some of the people from there would be looking after the aircraft while they're in storage but I think they did also have the Boeing Gold Care maintenance support package so Boeing could be looking after them otherwise I don't know any other organisation in Ireland with B787 approval.
    It's also possible that the leasing companies that own the aircraft are stumping up for the storage costs (which can be quite expensive) because they all have to be properly documented and certified otherwise they could be facing extremely expensive maintenance checks to satisfy the airworthiness authorities when they do try to bring them back into service or to take them out of storage if they need to position them somewhere else. There's actually quite a lot involved in keeping them airworthy when they're not flying.

    Why dya keep talking about the 787 when it's the Max in Dublin only?


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    #147
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,691 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    The phrasing to me indicates that the terminated maintenance agreements apply to the cancelled orders. You wouldn't pay for the servicing package if you pulled out of the deal to buy a car. And just because they're suing each other (or threatening to) over issues with one particular contract doesn't mean they won't continue to do business with each other in relation to other contracts - in fact unless either party has grounds to terminate the other contracts, they can't.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #148
    billy few mates
    Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭billy few mates


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    Why dya keep talking about the 787 when it's the Max in Dublin only?

    Apologies, I thought this thread was for discussing Norwegian aircraft not just the max, I was replying to some comments on the previous page where someone mentioned Norwegian B787s in storage in SNN.
    I'll get my coat...


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    #149
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,689 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    billy few mates wrote: »
    Apologies, I thought this thread was for discussing Norwegian aircraft not just the max, I was replying to some comments on the previous page where someone mentioned Norwegian B787s in storage in SNN.
    I'll get my coat...

    No harm, I read that the Norwegian 787's are in Shannon to be handed back to the lessors?
    So I guess the likes of Aercap would have a contract with a maintenance company to look after their assets globally like SR Technics or suchlike...


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    #150
    Locker10a
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,173 Mod ✭✭✭✭Locker10a


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    Why dya keep talking about the 787 when it's the Max in Dublin only?

    Are there also 2 737 NG in Dublin too? Parked by hanger 5?! Only caught a glimpse of them in passing but was sure they were NG


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    #151
    jucylucy
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭jucylucy


    Boeing let all their engineers in Dublin go recently...the Max aircraft are looked after by an independent provider now.
    The NGs by the hangar are being delivered to Transavia shortly.....


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