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Query about loosing deposit

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  • 01-03-2020 11:38am
    #1
    Envelope436
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭


    I'm an excellent Tennant staying in a short term let. I've kept the place immaculate, everything paid promptly. Whilst cleaning out fire this morning and ember fell and burnt hole in carpet. Approx 1cm in diameter. Very old grubby carpet if that makes any difference. Will my deposit be withheld over this. Deposit was 950 euro. Should I write a note now to the letting agency and tell them? Tenancy finishes end of month.


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    #2
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    They can only claim for the devaluated (I might have just made that word up) cost of the carpet and fitting. That's done over 8 years so say it's 4 years old they can claim half. Not sure if you're covered by the RTB on a short term let, you may have to go down the route of the small claims procedure.

    As for reporting it, very much in two minds. On the one had they may not notice on the other hand if they do notice then they're more likely to be a bollix about it as you didn't report it, but if they're going to be a bollix anyway...


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    #3
    Fireball81
    Registered Users Posts: 412 ✭✭Fireball81


    As a landlord, surely if there is a fire place the odd ember is to be expected to burn a small bit of the carpet, think you've been very good to keep it that immaculate.

    Personally, i wouldn't mention it...deal with the situation if and when it comes up.


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    #4
    antix80
    Registered Users Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭antix80


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    They can only claim for the devaluated (I might have just made that word up) cost of the carpet and fitting. That's done over 8 years so say it's 4 years old they can claim half.

    Where do people come up with this? Maybe it's true but I doubt it.

    If a tenant causes damage, the intelligent thing for them to do is put it right. Or contact the landlord so the repair work can be done at a time that suits the tenant.

    Failing that, the house may have to stay off the market while the landlord arranges for the damage to be repaired. So the landlord will lose out on rent, plus the cost of repairs.


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    #5
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    antix80 wrote: »
    Where do people come up with this? Maybe it's true but I doubt it.


    Other Landlords on boards with experience of the RTB and my accountant.
    antix80 wrote: »
    Failing that, the house may have to stay off the market while the landlord arranges for the damage to be repaired. So the landlord will lose out on rent, plus the cost of repairs.

    In fairness that's a good point.


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    #6
    antix80
    Registered Users Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭antix80


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    Other Landlords on boards with experience of the RTB and my accountant.

    Your accountant is referring to allowing the expense against tax.

    If a tenant broke a window that was 7 years old, I guarantee you they are liable to more than 1/8th of the replacement cost. They'll be hit with the full replacement cost.


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    #7
    antix80
    Registered Users Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭antix80


    Some advice for op

    Try to repair it yourself.. At least take the look off it. It will look more like wear and tear rather than damage.. And on a walk through the estate agent might not identify it as new damage.

    https://homeguides.sfgate.com/repair-burned-carpet-40822.html


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    #8
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    antix80 wrote: »
    Your accountant is referring to allowing the expense against tax.

    If a tenant broke a window that was 7 years old, I guarantee you they are liable to more than 1/8th of the replacement cost. They'll be hit with the full replacement cost.


    So I'm getting (almost) double the cost back. Don't see that one flying tbh but I'll leave it to the more experienced LL's to confirm either way.


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    #9
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users Posts: 5,163 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Can't cut a square out of the corner of the room and repair the carpet? No one would be any the wiser.


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    #10
    antix80
    Registered Users Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭antix80


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    So I'm getting (almost) double the cost back. Don't see that one flying tbh but I'll leave it to the more experienced LL's to confirm either way.

    No, it's the cost to put things right.

    If you break an antique vase, you don't pay 1/8th the original cost price.


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    #11
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    antix80 wrote: »
    No, it's the cost to put things right.

    If you break an antique vase, you don't pay 1/8th the original cost price.


    But I've got 7/8th of the cost back through tax, and 8/8ths of the cost from the tenant and I'll claim the same 8/8ths back from tax again...


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    #12
    antix80
    Registered Users Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭antix80


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    But I've got 7/8th of the cost back through tax, and 8/8ths of the cost from the tenant and I'll claim the same 8/8ths back from tax again...

    Ah.. Ok. . I see you don't understand how tax deductions work.


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    #13
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    antix80 wrote: »
    Ah.. Ok. . I see you don't understand how tax deductions work.


    I'm more than happy to have it explained. I can only go on what I've been told previously. I believe the thread was about a tenant breaking a fridge and the residual value being gone as it was over 8 years old. Note this was actually the tenant breaking the fridge and not wear and tear.


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    #14
    Fireball81
    Registered Users Posts: 412 ✭✭Fireball81


    Lads, it's a 1cm spot on ****ty old carpet, some perspective is needed.


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    #15
    Envelope436
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭Envelope436


    It was an absolute accident, I'm gutted over it. Place us owner occupied, he's away. Lets it out while away. Carpet about 30 years old.


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    #16
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Fireball81 wrote: »
    Lads, it's a 1cm spot on ****ty old carpet, some perspective is needed.


    Some people will see it as an excuse to replace the entire carpet with a new one and charge the OP for it.


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    #17
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Envelope436 wrote: »
    It was an absolute accident, I'm gutted over it. Place us owner occupied, he's away. Lets it out while away. Carpet about 30 years old.


    Okay he'll definitely notice. Report it will be your best bet and hope that the owner is reasonable.


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    #18
    antix80
    Registered Users Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭antix80


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    I'm more than happy to have it explained. I can only go on what I've been told previously. I believe the thread was about a tenant breaking a fridge and the residual value being gone as it was over 8 years old. Note this was actually the tenant breaking the fridge and not wear and tear.

    It would be hard to justify charging a tenant for a brand new carpet especially if the carpet was at the end of its useful life. So the main concern is that the house cannot be viewed or rented out pending repair/replacement of the carpet. That's on the op.

    Tax works like this.

    Cost of carpet. 1000

    Incorrect tax calc (year 1)
    Rent 10000
    Carpet 1000
    Income liable to tax 9000
    Tax 40%: 3600

    Correct tax calc (year 1 to 8)
    Rent 10000
    Carpet (1/8 of 1000) 125
    Income liable to tax 9875
    Tax 40% : 3950


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    #19
    Pistachio19
    Registered Users Posts: 482 ✭✭Pistachio19


    It's a tiny section of manky old carpet. Stop fretting over it. I agree with other posters who say to cut a small bit from an inconspicuous part of the carpet - in a corner, or under a press or couch - cut the burnt bit out and glue the new piece in. I've done it and it looks fine. Maybe buy a cheap rug to put in front of the fireplace to avoid any further accidents. You've done well to have only one burn!


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    #20
    Envelope436
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭Envelope436


    It was an absolute accident, I'm gutted over it. Place us owner occupied, he's away. Lets it out while away. Carpet about 30 years old.


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    #21
    dennyk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭dennyk


    antix80 wrote: »
    No, it's the cost to put things right.

    If you break an antique vase, you don't pay 1/8th the original cost price.

    Windows and antique vases aren't wear items that depreciate to almost no value over the course of a decade or so like a carpet does. If the carpet is actually 30(!) years old as the tenant says, it should by all rights have been replaced ages ago. Hell, by weight that thing is probably composed of more mildew and dust than carpet at this point. The RTB even addresses this on their site:
    The claim [for deposit deductions] must be reasonable. It is important to remember that an adjudicator or Tribunal are unlikely to award the price of a new sofa when the one damaged was 9 years old and had seen considerable use. Similarly, when landlords fixing the damage also decide to improve the overall quality of the property or its contents, these extra costs cannot be passed onto the tenant.


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    #22
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    dennyk wrote: »
    Windows and antique vases aren't wear items that depreciate to almost no value over the course of a decade or so like a carpet does. If the carpet is actually 30(!) years old as the tenant says, it should by all rights have been replaced ages ago. Hell, by weight that thing is probably composed of more mildew and dust than carpet at this point. The RTB even addresses this on their site:

    RTB will not be involved here, seems the op lives in an owner occupied house, albeit the owner is away, if it is still his primary residence and he has his own bedroom, the op is more than likely a licensee.

    On the plus side, if owner retains the deposit, the op does have the option of making a Small Claims Court claim as it can be used in licensee situations.

    My guess is, after 30 years, this ain’t the first time something fell out of the fire.


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    #23
    dennyk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭dennyk


    Dav010 wrote: »
    RTB will not be involved here, seems the op lives in an owner occupied house, albeit the owner is away, if it is still his primary residence and he has his own bedroom, the op is more than likely a licensee.

    True, but I'd imagine a judge in the court would take a similar view regarding the depreciated value of the carpeting, if it came to that. The tenant/licensee might be found responsible for *something*, if the carpet was in unusually pristine condition for it's extremely advanced age, but it's very unlikely to be the full replacement cost of brand new carpeting.


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