Bob Flavin (motoring journalist) & his views on EVs

Lantus

In todays world watching any single 7min you tube vid as the basis of a purchase of a new car whether ice or ev is lunacy and you deserve everything you get. Most customers would spread a wide net of multiple written reviews and videos, dealership time, blogs, boards!!! and so on. I'd say for ev that would be greater to ensure the ev lifestyle matched your needs.

The longer weekend show Bob does is a casual chat, rant, Q&A and light hearted piece.


Just remember that the word expert in any field is fairly subjective. The expanse of knowledge on just one subject like cars is too much for any one person and people will focus on undefined subsets that interest them.

zg3409

DrPhilG wrote: »

He demonstrated charging the car and made such a meal of how confusing it was to get the correct plug for the car, even though the charging station had a dirty great picture of the sockets on it.

He admitted afterwards this video was staged to illustrate that it is confusing for new EV owners to plug in, and start a charge at a triple head charger. 3 different cable options, 2 of which connect, 3 options on screen menu for which cable, RFID etc. Its a pity he did not just explain that rather than trying a stunt for viewership.

Plus as others have said he seems very uninformed on details for someone who is supposed to be an expert.

He is getting better, but yes he should be as knowledge able on EV as ICE. He has a slightly vested interest in that Irish manufacturers pay for some of his travel to review cars in other countries, but he says he has editorial control. He also does call foul on some of the EV price gouging and tries to take the average punter point of view. I do like the Irish perspective, but the many many incorrect statements are off putting.

unkel

DrPhilG wrote: »

Can't be arsed with Bob. Ever since one of his videos when he reviewed (I think) an Ioniq. It was one of his earliest EV reviews and came across like a hatchet job.

He demonstrated charging the car and made such a meal of how confusing it was to get the correct plug for the car, even though the charging station had a dirty great picture of the sockets on it.

He did that on purpose, that was pretty clear to me. But a lot of people thought he was just ignorant / thick. Someone even took so much of a hump, they started a thread on it here. I think Bob must have had a good laugh about all that

pdpmur

unkel wrote: »

He did that on purpose, that was pretty clear to me. But a lot of people thought he was just ignorant / thick. Someone even took so much of a hump, they started a thread on it here. I think Bob must have had a good laugh about all that

He might get some lols from his various antics, but does he think that this is a recipe for long term success?

I know he has a lot of airtime to fill on his sunday service, but he comes across to me as just talking off the top of his head for much of the time. I consider that he loses credibility because of his tactics as playing to the audience or just spoofing away on a topic about which he knows very little.

DrPhilG

unkel wrote: »

He did that on purpose, that was pretty clear to me. But a lot of people thought he was just ignorant / thick. Someone even took so much of a hump, they started a thread on it here. I think Bob must have had a good laugh about all that

Pretty stupid stunt to pull.

And even aside from that I find his videos waffly and ill informed.

pdpmur wrote: »

he comes across to me as just talking off the top of his head for much of the time. I consider that he loses credibility because of his tactics as playing to the audience or just spoofing away on a topic about which he knows very little.

Bingo

NIMAN

Always enjoyed his reviews, but have never seen him review an EV.

drunkmonkey

NIMAN wrote: »

Always enjoyed his reviews, but have never seen him review an EV.

I thought his eSoul one was very good, worth a watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiVgZLWR8mI

ELM327

NIMAN wrote: »

Always enjoyed his reviews, but have never seen him review an EV.

I've followed his channel since he reviewed the fluence EV back in the day

timsey tiger

I'd like to see his video where he puts petrol in desiel car.

minikin

Lost all respect for him over the EV charging retardovid.

ELM327

So you don't understand humor?

kaahooters

you all seem to not like Bob cos he reviews cars , as well, cars, not EVs.
EVs arent cars to the general public,there a new fanged gadget.
His channel is for the general public, and trying to convince Mick down the pub that a leaf is better then his tdi golf isnt easy.

if you have an interest in EVs and where the private transport industry is going, you'll know more then most motoring journalists.

BUT, most motoring journalists do know more about EVS then the general public, it changing , but slowly.

minikin

ELM327 wrote: »

So you don't understand humor?

Big humour fan... It’s possible to understand something whilst also disliking it.
Do you like paddywhackery by English comedians?
No? Oh you mustn’t understand it.

Bob’s effort at a critique was embarrassing, sort of rubbish you hear spouted by barstool experts - on a global stage. Must try better Bob - you let the side down.

ELM327

I'm on my third EV and acknowledge the points made in the video.
I often have to help new EV owners at fast chargers as it's not self explanatory. Thankfully I only really charge at Ionity and Tesla now and everyone there seems to know what they are doing.

minikin

ELM327 wrote: »

I'm on my third EV and acknowledge the points made in the video.
I often have to help new EV owners at fast chargers as it's not self explanatory. Thankfully I only really charge at Ionity and Tesla now and everyone there seems to know what they are doing.

Precisely - and Bob should have done exactly what you do - clearly and helpfully explain the correct way to use the chargers, rather than acting the chump.

But being helpful is boring and won't get as many youtube views and comments ala TopGear... so everything is dumbed down nowadays (bob pronounces chademo "chamuddadedadahhhadah" for the lols... ignorance is feckin hilarious isn't it and nobody plays the thick better than paddy, eh?)

It's in all our interests to reduce the amount of fossil fuel being burned, doing things which discourage people from switching to EV is akin to telling smokers "quitting is too much hassle", sure you've all the patches to figure out... smoking is much easier - keep doing that until they invent the perfect pill that cures cancer.

unkel

kaahooters wrote: »

if you have an interest in EVs and where the private transport industry is going, you'll know more then most motoring journalists.

BUT, most motoring journalists do know more about EVS then the general public, it changing , but slowly.

To summarise knowledge levels about EVs:

[0%---Irish general public------Irish motoring journos------------------------------------regulars in here---100%]

beauf

[Q0%---Irish general public------Irish motoring journos----------------regulars in here---100%-------------Chris Harris 200%]

Lumen

beauf wrote: »

[Q0%---Irish general public------Irish motoring journos----------------regulars in here---100%-------------Chris Harris 200%]

To put my criticism of Bob into context, and taking the wider question of "what sort of quality should be expect?" I think motoring journalism and its close bedfellow of car marketing has always been founded on about 80% lies and fantasy.

I used to be a big consumer of UK car mags, specifically Evo and Autocar. Evo used to do their testing around what became known as the "Evo triangle" in Wales, until the Welsh police cracked down on them. I remember one contributor getting a dangerous driving conviction for using an Evo VI like it was designed.

It does matter how a car goes, handles and stops. There is joy to had in in the simple act of driving. But that doesn't change the fact is that about half of all motoring journalism is escapist nonsense, and not just Top Gear, because it's based around driving cars at illegal speeds on empty roads. Fast cars sell magazines, or used to when magazines were a thing.

Anyway, all that is mostly in the past....

Now we have Youtube and most of the EV output is about Teslas, and much of that output in the last few years is about drag strip performance.

Here is a perfect example of the total bull**** being produced now. It's a review of a track package (irrelevant for probably >95% of owners) from someone who has apparently no idea of how to drive on track. It manages to be both uninformed AND overproduced.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXyEgl9rFN4

Sigh. At least the Autocar, Evo and Top Gear lads can drive.

Anyway, there is some promising Irish output for Bobphobes, for instance EV TV Ireland!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgswF_RD93sbbHEKcMEx0Ww/videos

drunkmonkey

Lumen wrote: »

Anyway, there is some promising Irish output for Bobphobes, for instance EV TV Ireland!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgswF_RD93sbbHEKcMEx0Ww/videos

That's a terrible channel....Bob and Nobby can sleep easy.

ELM327

Have to agree, I love EVs and especially watching youtube channels about them but I can't stand that EV tv

Sabre Man

ELM327 wrote: »

Have to agree, I love EVs and especially watching youtube channels about them but I can't stand that EV tv

May I ask why?

ELM327

Sabre Man wrote: »

May I ask why?

Let's take this video for a start.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZBDgvSHhLs


Begins with terrible logo and a circled google map.
Then does a 1990's wipe to the next screen which is a poorly recorded scene of a man beside a charger.
It looks like someone has recorded a video on their iphone, done no editing, and expects that with 10 seconds designing a logo in MS Paint that they can make a youtube channel.


Watch Bjorn for an example of how to produce top content.
Average content for instance is like ELM/EVM in the UK. Same as Transport Evolved in the US, or TFL Car/TFL truck are doing a series on teslas now, putting their own money at risk and buyinga 3 and and X. Even the Irish can do it too, Jan Bart Spang has a channel with some interesting videos.


People want to watch interesting well produced content where there is no wind noise or silly logos or star wipes.


(Apologies if this is your channel, by the way, but if it is, honest feedback from an avid follower of motoring and ev enthusiast youtubers like myself should be welcomed)

Kramer

ELM327 wrote: »

honest feedback from an avid follower of motoring and ev enthusiast youtubers like myself should be welcomed

Which is why I started this thread - honest feedback & opinions for Bob.
He'll either shirk it off or learn from it .

Old diesel

kaahooters wrote: »

you all seem to not like Bob cos he reviews cars , as well, cars, not EVs.
EVs arent cars to the general public,there a new fanged gadget.
His channel is for the general public, and trying to convince Mick down the pub that a leaf is better then his tdi golf isnt easy.

if you have an interest in EVs and where the private transport industry is going, you'll know more then most motoring journalists.

BUT, most motoring journalists do know more about EVS then the general public, it changing , but slowly.

I can only speak for myself - but I see motoring journalists gaps in EV knowledge as a sign of lazy journalism or disinterest.

Like its THEIR area of expertise - you should be exploring EV stuff as part of doing your job properly.

If I as just a normal guy can figure stuff about EVs by reading up on it. Then surely be to God - the motoring journalists who are paid can do similar.

Or is it disinterest.

And they've the car in front of them to play with - and because it's their JOB - they can make the time to play with the car. Do that Cork to Dublin run - or that Dublin to Westport run.

Report objectively on their findings.

Oh well

pdpmur

Kramer wrote: »

Which is why I started this thread - honest feedback & opinions for Bob.
He'll either shirk it off or learn from it .

My feedback in a nutshell to Mr Flavin:
Make up your mind whether you want to be taken seriously as a credible motoring journalist or as just another youtoob influencer where the only thing that matters is that the ends (more views) justifies the means.

drunkmonkey

Don't mind Bjorn and his bannana boxes, listen to Nobbys exhaust sounds, could teach a few of the big guns a lesson.
If you listen very carefully you can hear Greta's tears...

Sabre Man

ELM327 wrote: »

Let's take this video for a start.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZBDgvSHhLs


Begins with terrible logo and a circled google map.
Then does a 1990's wipe to the next screen which is a poorly recorded scene of a man beside a charger.
It looks like someone has recorded a video on their iphone, done no editing, and expects that with 10 seconds designing a logo in MS Paint that they can make a youtube channel.


Watch Bjorn for an example of how to produce top content.
Average content for instance is like ELM/EVM in the UK. Same as Transport Evolved in the US, or TFL Car/TFL truck are doing a series on teslas now, putting their own money at risk and buyinga 3 and and X. Even the Irish can do it too, Jan Bart Spang has a channel with some interesting videos.

People want to watch interesting well produced content where there is no wind noise or silly logos or star wipes.

(Apologies if this is your channel, by the way, but if it is, honest feedback from an avid follower of motoring and ev enthusiast youtubers like myself should be welcomed)

Thanks for your feedback. In our newest videos we're using a much better Rode microphone, so there should be less wind noise.

Do you have a link to the ELM channel? I presume EVM is Electric Vehicle Man.

ELM327

ELM is EVM, he was electric leaf man but changed to Electric Vehicle man after rapidgate :P

Kramer

ELM327 wrote: »

ELM is EVM, he was electric leaf man but changed to Electric Vehicle man after rapidgate :P

Is that the guy where some Nissan employee pee'd in his car wash bucket (he made Nissan pay dearly for it ) & who Ford flew out recently to the US to "review" their new EV offering?

Old diesel

Kramer wrote: »

Is that the guy where some Nissan employee pee'd in his car wash bucket (he made Nissan pay dearly for it ) & who Ford flew out recently to the US to "review" their new EV offering?

Yes that's him.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Lumen wrote: »

Here is a perfect example of the total bull**** being produced now. It's a review of a track package (irrelevant for probably >95% of owners) from someone who has apparently no idea of how to drive on track. It manages to be both uninformed AND overproduced.

Salomondrin is a heavy hitter in the car youtube space. I think he is actually really good, and that video will do more for uptake of electric cars than any 20 minute Bjorn video with 100 efficienty excel spreadsheets. Also - over the air updates to trackmode v2 will allow full RWD.....Awesome.

Salomondrin sells a lifestyle, and aspiration. He has serious cars, his Senna went on fire, he has a 918 and a Veyron...he is a madman. When he come out and says EV;s are good people will listen.

I love Bjorn, I like Bob and Salomondrin and Doug, and Hoovey and all the others. We need to listen and not just give out. When Bob says something that is anti EV we need to pay attention as thats what people think (rightly or wrongly) and sometimes its true.....there is an old saying to get people on your side you need to meet them where thay are, not where you want them to be. The nerdy eye-rolling and impatience with the less technically capable and inclined does nothing but make people think EV drivers are a bag of tools that like the smell of their own farts.

timsey tiger

I'd add, that from a professional journalist, I don't want a guy discovering a car for the first time type report.

I want an experienced knowledgeable reporting on what the car is like, not oh look I made a noob mistake.

I don't expect a journalist to know everything themself, but I do expect them to seek out somebody knowledgeable and interview them, whilst understanding the interviewees motives and explaining why what they say might be biased.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

timsey tiger wrote: »

I'd add, that from a professional journalist, I don't want a guy discovering a car for the first time type report.

I want an experienced knowledgeable reporting on what the car is like, not oh look I made a noob mistake.

I don't expect a journalist to know everything themself, but I do expect them to seek out somebody knowledgeable and interview them, whilst understanding the interviewees motives and explaining why what they say might be biased.

People want to be entertained as well as informed, watching people make mistakes is often a very good learning experiance. Look at the excellent "Maddie goes electric" series on the fully charged channel. She was a noob, made mistakes and got more knowledgeable as time went on. The least interesting parts were where some expert was "man/woman-splaining" to her

liamog

Laura Rapping Warfare wrote: »

People want to be entertained as well as informed, watching people make mistakes is often a very good learning experiance. Look at the excellent "Maddie goes electric" series on the fully charged channel. She was a noob, made mistakes and got more knowledgeable as time went on. The least interesting parts were where some expert was "man/woman-splaining" to her

The Maddie goes electric series was a great one. It did a much better job of dealing with the complexities by making a series out of it. It's much better than randomly sticking it in the middle of a review of the Ioniq.

I've only ever fuelled a car once, imagine if I did a review of the new Golf and spent 5 minutes faffing about at a petrol pump.

timsey tiger

Laura Rapping Warfare wrote: »

People want to be entertained as well as informed, watching people make mistakes is often a very good learning experiance. Look at the excellent "Maddie goes electric" series on the fully charged channel. She was a noob, made mistakes and got more knowledgeable as time went on. The least interesting parts were where some expert was "man/woman-splaining" to her

Yes it was, but it is all about expectation. Her series was about somebody dipping their feet ev for the first time and was advertised as such.

I don't think a professional journalist should be going around not knowing his ass from his elbow.

DrPhilG

Laura Rapping Warfare wrote: »

some expert was "man/woman-splaining" to her

What's wrong with the word "explaining"?

ELM327

DrPhilG wrote: »

What's wrong with the word "explaining"?

Doesnt suit the snowflakes

btkm8unsl0w5r4

DrPhilG wrote: »

What's wrong with the word "explaining"?

It infers a more patronising tone than explaining as was my wish. Patronising means talking down to somebody even though they already know the information.

liamog

Laura Rapping Warfare wrote: »

It infers a more patronising tone than explaining as was my wish. Patronising means talking down to somebody even though they already know the information.

Big difference between patronising someone and a journalist getting a simple explanation for the purpose of educating the audience.

Lumen

liamog wrote: »

Big difference between patronising someone and a journalist getting a simple explanation for the purpose of educating the audience.

There's a lot of subjectivity here.

I find the "Maddie goes electric" quite irritating. AFAIK Maddie+1 work as something like childrens TV presenters, and when I watch it I feel like I'm watching CBeebies for adults. Much of the ignorance seems implausible, although I think she's made some effort to be uninformed before starting the project, in order to make it more authentic.

But I understand that 99% of people are not as viciously cynical as I am, so that's fine. Whatever floats your boat.

liamog

Dare I say, as a regular poster on an EV board, you are not the intended target audience. One of the reasons I'm going to miss Johnny on Fully Charged is that he's much better at doing the car journalism.

I was watching Bob's review of the 330d, he's gone again into the daft place of people will buy a diesel because they only want to charge a car once a month. As a surbunite I do wonder about the attitude of some people in our rural towns. I get the arguments re towing ability, but surely if you have a driveway, the convenience of never having to go to a petrol station outways the inconvenience of parking up and plugging in twice a week.

Lumen

liamog wrote: »

One of the reasons I'm going to miss Johnny on Fully Charged is that he's much better at doing the car journalism.

Agreed, Fully Charged has really suffered as a result. It was a bit too uncritically positive even before Jonny left but now, much as I love Kryten, it offers very little in terms of constructive criticism or focused analysis of cars.

Their Mach E launch coverage was dire, incredibly soft.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

liamog wrote: »

Big difference between patronising someone and a journalist getting a simple explanation for the purpose of educating the audience.

Your totally missing the point. People dont want to be educated they want to be entertained. The successful educator manages to hide it in entertainment, and watching somebody make mistakes is both. Listening to lecture is not interesting, and will not do anything except make people thing they need a lecture series to run an EV. Maddie Moate is a childrens presenter not a journalist also.

liamog

Laura Rapping Warfare wrote: »

Your totally missing the point. People dont want to be educated they want to be entertained. The successful educator manages to hide it in entertainment, and watching somebody make mistakes is both. Listening to lecture is not interesting, and will not do anything except make people thing they need a lecture series to run an EV. Maddie Moate is a childrens presenter not a journalist also.

I found the Maddie series to be entertaining and educational. I didn't find it particularly patronising. If I had a non-techy friend was thinking of purchasing an EV and wanted more info, I'd probably point them towards the series.

Black_Knight

liamog wrote: »

One of the reasons I'm going to miss Johnny on Fully Charged is that he's much better at doing the car journalism.
.

Where'd he go?

Mickeroo

Black_Knight wrote: »

Where'd he go?

Has his own channel now called CarPervert:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyswzcDCjxE

btkm8unsl0w5r4

liamog wrote: »

I found the Maddie series to be entertaining and educational. I didn't find it particularly patronising. If I a non-techy friend was thinking of purchasing an EV, I'd probably point them towards the series.

Exactly....the best parts were not where she or some expert were being diadiatic, but the trial and error "real world" bits. Thats my point.

ELM327

Why'd he go?

jusmeig

ELM327 wrote: »

Why'd he go?

He had a beef with the robot at or just after Fully Charged Live.

Lantus

Most car vids are primarily to evoke emotion and garner enjoyment. Most experts across all major organisations and indies still insist on banging and scratching the top of the dashboard and talking about softness of plastic.

Never in my 20 plus years of driving have I ever rested my hands on the top of dashboard or seen another driver do it. My interaction is the wheel, gears and occasional button.

Fills a few minutes and the armchair experts nod enthusiastically and puff on their pipes...