Bob Flavin (motoring journalist) & his views on EVs

timsey tiger

only ever saw somebody do it on intro to that seventies show

Joseph SEE

Black_Knight wrote: »

Where'd he go?

Car Pervert.

Edit: Already answered.

Joseph SEE

ELM327 wrote: »

Why'd he go?

Apparently, wanted to do his own thing and not be restricted by just covering EVs.

Agent_47

Kramer wrote: »

My only issue is with misinformation.

That's why I won't subscribe to his channel, I've watched the Sunday Service, more like the beggars bowl, every few minutes he is looking for paypal cash to "support the channel".

He rubbishes most cars, is very antagonistic with a smart mouth to boot. I once commented a few years ago that he should upgrade his audio to avoid wind noise on his videos, he commented that he would if I would buy him a proper mic. Fast forward to last year and he was moaning the audio was bad as the reason he could not release certain videos, a real tight arse looking for a free car every week to drive.

Don't bother watching or listening to the Sunday Service anymore, his day along with the ICE are done.

Joseph SEE

jusmeig wrote: »

He had a beef with the robot at or just after Fully Charged Live.

Where did you hear that?

tw0nk

I applaud Bob for setting up channel, sticking with it and growing it over time. However, content is really poor and often incorrect. If I treat it as just an opinion blog instead of car journalism I'm still not a fan as it comes across as having a rant/moan for a few cheap laughs.

Thanks to others for sharing some other YouTube creators as I wasn't aware of them.

sk8board

Lumen wrote: »

Agreed, Fully Charged has really suffered as a result. It was a bit too uncritically positive even before Jonny left but now, much as I love Kryten, it offers very little in terms of constructive criticism or focused analysis of cars.

Their Mach E launch coverage was dire, incredibly soft.

Agreed - I think Robert Llewellyn panders to an EV cult following rather than the mainstream audience he now has.
I stopped watching after the annoying Llewellyn rant videos were followed by poor coverage of launches where obvious questions were screaming to be asked but didn’t get a mention.

The maddie series was interesting (I’m the audiences for this), although 2 things:
1. You’d know she was a kids tv presenter - it was very over the top ‘pretend ignorance’ of solution-and-problem.
2. I actually shouted at my screen when she couldn’t get the kona to charge on a trip, but completely edited out what actually happened or what the issue was and suddenly they’re all charged up elsewhere. That’s the stuff we want to know!

All in all FCL is too EV cultish for me.

I also follow Bob Flavin - to be fair it’s a very Irish approach and re EVs I think his view is simply that you’d be mad to spend so much money on an EV at the moment/near term.
Bear in mind that the EV crowd are all experts and no sign of knowledge deficiency goes unpunished.
Again, in an Irish context, 2.8% of new sales being EVs would suggest he knows his audience.

I also find the Sunday service far too long and impossible to skip through, there’s no logic to it so it meanders hopelessly all over the place and wildly off topic into politics and all sorts

Black_Knight

Agent_47 wrote: »

That's why I won't subscribe to his channel, I've watched the Sunday Service, more like the beggars bowl, every few minutes he is looking for paypal cash to "support the channel".

He rubbishes most cars, is very antagonistic with a smart mouth to boot. I once commented a few years ago that he should upgrade his audio to avoid wind noise on his videos, he commented that he would if I would buy him a proper mic. Fast forward to last year and he was moaning the audio was bad as the reason he could not release certain videos, a real tight arse looking for a free car every week to drive.

Don't bother watching or listening to the Sunday Service anymore, his day along with the ICE are done.

Yeah, his begging is a bit much. Sunday service feels like a cash grab rather than being passionate about cars. The click bait titles too.

What he covers in reviews is a bit abstract too. Certainly if you want to know about shopping bag hooks in cars he's got ya sorted.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

I will start by saying I like him, I like his presentation style and turn of phrase. What I think a lot of people are picking up on is his lack of consistency. He will praise one car for something, and then hammer another for having the same characteristic. When you watch his vids over time you cant help but not trust his opinion because it so changeable.

galwaytt

ELM327 wrote: »

The EQC and the ETron like it, are just paperweights. Crap compared to Tesla, less range, more inefficient, less charging speed or opportunities. When big auto wants to play the EV game I'm sure they will outspend Tesla and blow them out of the park with a 1000km range EV with 350kW charging but they are no where near that.

What you say is not untrue, but as soon as the mainstream brands like Audi/MB/BMW crack it, would-be Tesla owners will be swooned.

Look at sales figures in Norway for Jan 19 vs Jan 20. From 1100 down to 83 cars. The Audi eTron otoh went from nothing to 1000+ sales.

All that's happened is that Audi have supplanted Tesla there: it isn't a vote on the tech, but it does highlight the EV market isn't probably as big as people think, as all that's happened is they've cannibalised each other, rather than added their combined power (sic) to sell EV. That and the fact there are only so many €100k car buyers in any market.

People like the quality of the established brands : nothing wrong with that - it will be interesting to see if the Berlin Gigafactory can leverage some of that German quality into the Tesla build.

ELM327

galwaytt wrote: »

What you say is not untrue, but as soon as the mainstream brands like Audi/MB/BMW crack it, would-be Tesla owners will be swooned.

Look at sales figures in Norway for Jan 19 vs Jan 20. From 1100 down to 83 cars. The Audi eTron otoh went from nothing to 1000+ sales.

All that's happened is that Audi have supplanted Tesla there: it isn't a vote on the tech, but it does highlight the EV market isn't probably as big as people think, as all that's happened is they've cannibalised each other, rather than added their combined power (sic) to sell EV. That and the fact there are only so many €100k car buyers in any market.

People like the quality of the established brands : nothing wrong with that - it will be interesting to see if the Berlin Gigafactory can leverage some of that German quality into the Tesla build.

I mean, it will never happen that Tesla will be >50% of a mature market.
I think they are more affected by fluctuating delivery volumes as production ramps.


The german OEMs have the advantage of cash and scale, with the hampering of Tesla#s first mover advantage, less debt, and cult following.


It will be interesting to see what happens. Objectively cars like ETron and EQC are more premium and more like a normal car. Cars like the X have better range and better charging support (SuC network). The OEMs could quite easily overcome both of those.

Lumen

ELM327 wrote: »

Objectively cars like ETron and EQC are more premium and more like a normal car. Cars like the X have better range and better charging support (SuC network). The OEMs could quite easily overcome both of those.

But they haven't. At least the "premium" ones haven't. So it can't be easy.

Listening to Bob yesterday (irony much?!) I learned that Hyundai/Kia invested unspecified vast amounts of money in EV tech over a number of years. That's why an e-Niro is largely competitive with a Model 3, range wise, at least in European driving conditions.

I've made this point to Tesla fans online and it doesn't tend to go down very well.

Tesla are in the fortunate position right now of appearing more "premium" than the Koreans whilst have better efficiency and range than the Germans.

I don't personally get the premium thing. I have a Kia and it's mostly a lovely place to spend time.

ELM327

Lumen wrote: »

But they haven't. At least the "premium" ones haven't. So it can't be easy.

Listening to Bob yesterday (irony much?!) I learned that Hyundai/Kia invested unspecified vast amounts of money in EV tech over a number of years. That's why an e-Niro is largely competitive with a Model 3, range wise, at least in European driving conditions.

I've made this point to Tesla fans online and it doesn't tend to go down very well.

Tesla are in the fortunate position right now of appearing more "premium" than the Koreans whilst have better efficiency and range than the Germans.

I don't personally get the premium thing. I have a Kia and it's mostly a lovely place to spend time.

It has longer range but much slower charge speed and suffers from coldgate.
I'd love my gen 1 ioniq with a 64kWh battery from a kona.

Lumen

ELM327 wrote: »

It has longer range but much slower charge speed and suffers from coldgate.
I'd love my gen 1 ioniq with a 64kWh battery from a kona.

I'm fairly sure that Bjorn recently found that the e-Soul coldgates less (with a cold battery) than the Model 3.

Trying to find the video....

...found it. 20 minutes in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0JvU4dWtEw

ELM327

Yes that's a cold battery
Cold battery =/= coldgate though
Coldgate is arriving at a charger after 2 hours driving and still getting a lower curve

Bodhan

Hi Lads, just catching up on Boards as it was mentioned to me on Twitter a long while ago. Sorry I didn't answer, I'd forgotten my login details and there's so many comments, questions, videos, emails to get through.
Maybe you don't want a reply seeing as it might just be letting off internet steam?

Anyway, I'm Bob Flavin and I've been a Boards user for years and years

Bodhan

Kramer wrote: »

I just caught some of Bob's weekly podcast earlier & was surprised by his largely antagonistic attitude to EVs. He has an EQC apparently at present & seems very uninformed with regards to charging speeds.
He quite likely has a 16A cable as he can only draw 3kW from his home chargepoint, but says he can pull 7kW from ECars SCPs. He is aggrieved he can't get the full 22kW.
He confused kW & kWh & bounced between chargers & charge points (I hate that )

He referred to the EQC as "a paperweight" & said it was useless :eek:.

He also intimated EVs can stop abruptly on the motorway & pose a significant safety hazard. He said EVs can't be put into neutral & thus can't be towed or pushed...............

He said heating water with salt in it produces hydrogen. He said hydrogen fuels atomic bombs & if a hydrogen fuel station went up, it would wipe out a whole town, basically like an atomic bomb :eek:.

I forget how many other inaccuracies were in there (I didn't even listen much past half way).
If I was considering an EV I'd certainly be looking at staying in an ICE after watching Bob today. I must say, I was very disappointed.

A bit long to reply to all of this but you are watching a Sunday Service which is a LIVE show, there's no script or rehearsals so I have to talk off the top of my head for over two hours with hundreds of questions to answer. I don't always get it right but I do try to be as accurate as possible.
I have an opinion about EV's and ICE cars that vaires depending on the questions coming in. EQC is a great car but overpriced

I'm assuming I don't need to link to Electrolysis for turning water in hydrogen?

Bodhan

0lddog wrote: »

All true journalists never let the facts get in the way of a good storey


( ran his name thru a search engine - still dont know what rag he journalists for )

The "rag" is my own publication that I've built up on YouTube. Sometimes I write as a freelancer for other publications

Bodhan

Mickeroo wrote: »

That's a live stream, his normal vids are regular length, car reviews and the like.

He's not actually staunch anti EV really, he does come across as very misinformed on some things but he's quite enthusiastic about them at other times which seems a bit odd.

He's gone to a fair few IEVOA gatherings and been involved with a few EV conferences and things around the country.

I've only ever been to two IEVOA gatherings and I've spoken a few conferences about motoring and EV stuff that didn't involve IEVOA

Bodhan

unkel wrote: »

And to think he is probably one of the better informed Irish motoring journos out there

Scary isn't it?

Bodhan

liamog wrote: »

Most of the time I find him good on EVs. I think he's been quite critical on the Premium Electric SUVs which are super heavy and as such very inefficient.

Correct, making a car heavy isn't very efficient especially when the range is already limited along with the speed of charging

Bodhan

ELM327 wrote: »

I've seen him at IEVOA agms and events.
He hasn't a clue of the proper EV parlance but do people who drive fossil fuel cars generally use the right words for EGR and DPF? They just drive...

The EQC and the ETron like it, are just paperweights. Crap compared to Tesla, less range, more inefficient, less charging speed or opportunities. When big auto wants to play the EV game I'm sure they will outspend Tesla and blow them out of the park with a 1000km range EV with 350kW charging but they are no where near that.

I have never been or attended an IEVOA AGM or official meeting, I'm a member of the facebook group but that's it.

As you say, proper terminology or parlance is often wrong for all kinds of things. There's a lot to remember when I'm live!

Bodhan

ei9go wrote: »

You can't take him seriously.

He has a review of a Passat GTE PHEV which he left uncharged for the review!

The one thing everybody wanted to know is how far it went in EV mode.

That's gas, don't take me seriously then

drunkmonkey

Bodhan wrote: »

Hi Lads, just catching up on Boards as it was mentioned to me on Twitter a long while ago. Sorry I didn't answer, I'd forgotten my login details and there's so many comments, questions, videos, emails to get through.
Maybe you don't want a reply seeing as it might just be letting off internet steam?

Anyway, I'm Bob Flavin and I've been a Boards user for years and years

Not to put you in the hotbox there Bob, but the ID3 1st, hot or not? I'm close to pulling the trigger on one this morning..

Bodhan

Lumen wrote: »

They have objectively much better cabin refinement (lower noise) and subjectively better interior materials.

The etron also has very fast charging and a decent top buffer.

They are not paperweights.

I don't remember in what context I called an EQC a paperweight but if you want to spend that sort of money on a good car then get an EQC, it's good

Bodhan

Old diesel wrote: »

Wouldn't panic lads.

If you look at the main motors section you will see a thread about Mazda 6 2.2 diesel issues.

Ask someone like Bob and he will probably tell you the Mazda is a great chariot.

The real world input from sites like boards and wider social media wins out eventually.

Someone drew Bob's attention to this thread on twitter and his reply was "does boards still exist".

Mark N is passing him out rapidly imo

Are you ranting about me or Mark Nobel? I test new cars, I didn't see a thread on the Mazda issues and neither have I had a comment anywhere that I can think of for a Mazda problem. If I had I would have gotten a statement from Mazda, I've done this many times for subcribers.

By the way, Mark is a nice fella and has a good channel that I'm subscribed to

Lumen

Bodhan wrote: »

I don't remember in what context I called an EQC a paperweight but if you want to spend that sort of money on a good car then get an EQC, it's good

You didn't call it that, I was quoting ELM327.

ELM327

Bodhan wrote: »

I don't remember in what context I called an EQC a paperweight but if you want to spend that sort of money on a good car then get an EQC, it's good

I think I called it a paperweight


Which it is, as it has too short range, bad charging options and is overpriced. If you want german premium in an EV get an etron!

Bodhan

duploelabs wrote: »

I've watched a few of his videos, mainly because he's an Irish reviewer. Couldn't manage any more as I found him to have all the charisma and knowledge in front of the camera of Alan Partridge. Half expected him to say 'Lexii' at one stage

Interesting

Bodhan

beauf wrote: »

I like Bob. Watched him build his channel from nothing. He comes across more as reporter than car nut, maybe I'm mistaken. Either way that's ok, it's just a different perspective. Also it gives you an insight into the Irish motor industry etc. He does a load of work to make that content. I look forward to his videos dropping. He's only getting better. I don't always agree with him and he's not always right. But so what. Thumbs up for Bob.

Humbled, thanks very much!

ELM327

Bodhan wrote: »

That's gas, don't take me seriously then

It's like your video with the Ioniq a while back about which plug to use at a DC charging station.



You either got the point of the video (ie comically showing it's not straight forward for your average 1.6 focus buying numpty) or you didnt.

Bodhan

Lantus wrote: »

+1. Listening to people that only say what you want to hear or nothing new or challenging is a pointless exercise. And hydrogen is very flammable. Korea and Asia are having safety issues. Not nuke issues but it's a concern currently.

Overlooked comment here, there have been a number of Hygroen fuel station fires and explosions, I know this can happen to any petrol station as well.

Bodhan

beauf wrote: »

Chris Harris is great. But I've learnt zero from him about Irish specific motoring issues. Also these guys are very niche. They do very little content on more mainstream parts of motoring.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaDWPBco07w

Myself and Chris Harris have wildly different budgets to make content and I don't have a crew/fact-checker/reserchers/camera crew and so on.
I prefer the Irish angle and prices when they are relevant. Ireland is unique in VRT and the way we import for dealers so that's where I like to look

Bodhan

Kramer wrote: »

I agree - fair play to Bob for creating the content & proffering a uniquely Irish perspective on Irish motoring. No issues from me there & I hope he evolves.

My only issue is with misinformation. Bob has a viewership & as such, has influence. Disparaging a €100,000 EV because, as I suspect, he's not aufait with charging parameters, cables etc., doesn't do anyone any good, most especially himself.
His intro does state "expert care reviews".

Be an expert then, educate yourself & be a better journalist. Learn the difference between kW & kWh, AC & DC charging, charge points & chargers, how hydrogen is produced etc.

A little constructive criticism shouldn't cause offense to Bob & I haven't seen anyone attack him here. Hopefully he's reading (you know he is - hi Bob ) & takes some good from this thread anyway.

Thanks dude! The channel is evolving fast now so it can be hard to keep up with all the outlets.

No offence taken, it's a live show and sometimes I get muddled. Imagine a radio presenter answering questions but can't go to an ad break or a piece of music or even the toilet!

Bodhan

Lumen wrote: »

Why? Before Top Gear picked him up Harris was doing exactly what Bob is doing now, albeit with slightly different subject material. Freelance motor journalism and bits of Youtube.

Here's Chris Harris talking freestyle about cars.

Show me one clip or article from Bob that demonstrates similar depth of knowledge, on any subject.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiLImHQbjis

I've never made a video like the one you've linked because I'm not Chris Harris and I don't have Topgears budget. Also, if you think there's no rehearsal or second takes in this you should look at it again. Chris is a super presenter and has a wealth of knowledge, that's why he's on Topgear

Bodhan

Nickindublin wrote: »

I look at a lot of motoring journalists on YouTube from Carwow to Honestjohn and Bob. To be fair to Bob he hasn't the resources of the others but he does a good video and review and tries to be different. The Sunday show is live and a bit long for my liking. He claims he doesn't take sponsorship from motoring companies etc.

Thank you, I do try to be different from the rest but still provide value to the consumer.

I don't take and advertising/sponsorship/dontations from any car company in exchange for a positive review. I don't have "sponsored content" like I see in many other profitable publications. Any sponsorship is welcome as I try to make money to pay the bills but it must come from something I don't review. I hope that makes sense?

McHonda

I like Bob. It's great to have an Irish voice and I think he tries to be impartial. I've ordered an id3 and nothing Bob said about EVs put me off. They are not perfect and will not suit everyone. My parents are both retired and would struggle with chargers not working etc. they just aren't techie enough. They also don't do the mileage to justify the premium. A small petrol makes far more sense for them and maybe in a few years when there is more choice they will make the switch. I think ev owners are too defensive when it comes to reviews. Keep doing what you are doing Bob!

Bodhan

DrPhilG wrote: »

Can't be arsed with Bob. Ever since one of his videos when he reviewed (I think) an Ioniq. It was one of his earliest EV reviews and came across like a hatchet job.

He demonstrated charging the car and made such a meal of how confusing it was to get the correct plug for the car, even though the charging station had a dirty great picture of the sockets on it.

Plus as others have said he seems very uninformed on details for someone who is supposed to be an expert.

I love the judgement call from one video when there's over 700 videos on my channel.
The video you are talking about was to show how confusing it would be if you aren't an EV person. If I took a live-long ICE driver and gave him/her the keys of an EV and left them at it with a charging station what do you think would happen?
The charging stations should be like a USB port, if I plug in an Apple device to a Windows laptop Windows will tell me its an Apple and will start to charge the device. Why can't EV chargers do the same?
It should tell you nothing, you plug in and everything else happens automatically, like Tesla

Bodhan

Zeke Fancy Manufacturer wrote: »

That you Bob?

Nope This is me

Bodhan

high horse wrote: »

Bob is on boards alright. Bodhan is his user name.

Feck, should have came here first I'd forgotten all the log in stuff!

Bodhan

Lantus wrote: »

In todays world watching any single 7min you tube vid as the basis of a purchase of a new car whether ice or ev is lunacy and you deserve everything you get. Most customers would spread a wide net of multiple written reviews and videos, dealership time, blogs, boards!!! and so on. I'd say for ev that would be greater to ensure the ev lifestyle matched your needs.

The longer weekend show Bob does is a casual chat, rant, Q&A and light hearted piece.


Just remember that the word expert in any field is fairly subjective. The expanse of knowledge on just one subject like cars is too much for any one person and people will focus on undefined subsets that interest them.

This is correct, most people will watch/read/listen to multiple opinions on cars before they actually buy something. Most of the people coming to channel don't buy cars they are enthusiasts.

The Sunday Service is just a chat show and it's live, it's motorheads having a chat. We also do Zoom meetings and are planning a real life meet up later in the year when the lockdown stuff ends

Bodhan

unkel wrote: »

He did that on purpose, that was pretty clear to me. But a lot of people thought he was just ignorant / thick. Someone even took so much of a hump, they started a thread on it here. I think Bob must have had a good laugh about all that

Still laughing about it now, that video still gets views and comments. To be fair most people got the joke but some people who claim to know everything didn't see the funny side. Even other motoring journalists said that I was wrong, some people are easily upset though

Bodhan

pdpmur wrote: »

He might get some lols from his various antics, but does he think that this is a recipe for long term success?

I know he has a lot of airtime to fill on his sunday service, but he comes across to me as just talking off the top of his head for much of the time. I consider that he loses credibility because of his tactics as playing to the audience or just spoofing away on a topic about which he knows very little.

Ten years on the channel, a couple of years doing the Sunday Service and it now has about five thousand people a week watching live and a Podcast version that gets about the same. It's already long term and a bloody hard job. Readio DJ's have told me that it's impossible to fill two hours without some kind of break yet I do it every week.

Success depends on who is measuring it

Bodhan

DrPhilG wrote: »

Pretty stupid stunt to pull.

And even aside from that I find his videos waffly and ill informed.



Bingo

Cool, I don't make the videos for everyone.

Bodhan

NIMAN wrote: »

Always enjoyed his reviews, but have never seen him review an EV.

There's a playlist on the channel of every EV review I've done. I'm getting a Zoe today so I'll be adding to it

Lumen

Bodhan wrote: »

I've never made a video like the one you've linked because I'm not Chris Harris and I don't have Topgears budget. Also, if you think there's no rehearsal or second takes in this you should look at it again. Chris is a super presenter and has a wealth of knowledge, that's why he's on Topgear

Since I posted those original comments I've watched a fair bit more of your output and now I like it (not that it matters!). I don't know whether the output has improved or whether I've just got used to your presenting style.

My original criticism was that you had no obvious area of expertise that makes you stand out. If I want an opinion on how a car drives, why would I watch you rather than Autocar? Your content is objectively less well edited and produced, and your subject matter expertise (on cars and driving in general) doesn't appear to be better. That doesn't mean you're deficient as a human being, it's just a consequence of sharing an online space with output from larger countries (UK and US) where the pool of money is bigger.

I think I now understand that your area of expertise is the Irish motoring industry, dealer networks and business models, local pricing factors etc. That's fine, although it's going to massively limit the number of subscribers (maybe you don't care about that?).

Bjorn Nyland is a good example of someone who lives in a small country like ours but has developed a large international following (181k subs), despite fairly low production values and very niche (and mostly quite boring) output (BEVs represent < 5% of global car sales). He gets those because his expertise is unrivaled.

Bodhan

ELM327 wrote: »

I've followed his channel since he reviewed the fluence EV back in the day

Bloody hell that's a long time! Thank you very much I'm always humbled when I hear of people taking the time to watch, it really does mean a lot

liamog

Great to see you here Bob, always enjoy your video's. Hopefully you'll get a Mini Electric at some point, would love to here your thoughts on their approach!

Bodhan

timsey tiger wrote: »

I'd like to see his video where he puts petrol in desiel car.

I'll give it a go but I can't afford the repairs.

Bodhan

minikin wrote: »

Lost all respect for him over the EV charging retardovid.

Can't please everyone I suppose, retardovid is a bit sharp though no?